Nicolas Lirio (00:00.078) How's how's everybody's how how's everyone's gut doing? Mine's growing. Kent Boucher (00:04.686) I've hit a a point in my life where it just gets harder to lose weight and and so I've I've come up with a new approach. Nicolas Lirio (00:21.666) Get bigger? Kent Boucher (00:23.244) Just embrace it. More is better. Okay. No, I'm I'm for the first time in years starting to ease my way back into working out. cool. I used to I used to be kind of a gym rat back in Yeah, my football. But I didn't just do like the regular team workouts. Like I was I was doing my own stuff on on top of that, right? And even into college. Nicolas Lirio (00:41.751) Really? Well you played football. Kent Boucher (00:52.546) But man, I I when I was probably twenty Let's see. My youngest was born or my oldest was born when I was just about twenty-eight. So yeah, I was probably twenty-eight, twenty-nine. I had a friend that lived in Davenport with me. And he had a couple kids. And there was one night of the week, I think his daughters had like dance or something. And so he'd bring his sons over, and then I have I have a great weight set at my house. One that I've offered to use with Nicholas, but he he says no, he loves Oreo Fluff too much. Nicolas Lirio (01:30.111) Well but I only go where the wealthy people go to work out. Just there to rub shoulders. Kent Boucher (01:34.734) But I have a great weight set, not one of those everybody used to have in the eighties and nineties weight set where the like the buffet press the bench press rack is like not even as wide as your shoulders and you like pinch your hands on it when you go to go to lift. I got like a big wide set, a li you know, I think I probably have almost I bet I have close to five hundred pounds of of like Olympic free weights. Nicolas Lirio (01:53.548) It can hold on. Nicolas Lirio (02:00.206) See that. Riley Rozendaal (02:01.282) No, come Kent Boucher (02:04.46) You know, I got a full size Olympic barbell and everything. But I learned so yeah, back to my friend. We would I mean religiously, we'd be one day a week. We would work out together and then we did our own stuff the rest of the week and then we'd come back together to to work out that and it it was going great. We were probably doing that for I don't know, six, seven months. And that was basically the last time I lifted weights. Nicolas Lirio (02:29.048) You wanna know something interesting? The guy that is that I'm friends with that is the most shredded that I know eats raw meat only for his lifestyle. Kent Boucher (02:41.434) with the liver king or something? Riley Rozendaal (02:42.702) No, no, no, no, I don't I don't even know Nicolas Lirio (02:44.376) Know if he watches but he he was the one who first told me about the carnivore, you know, years and years ago and I was like, dude, you're freaking crazy. But like just the no carbs thing and he's shredded. And he just like he doesn't he goes in phases of working out or not working out. When he works out he gets huge, but when Kent Boucher (02:59.726) rather be shred would you rather see to me shredded means like man that cross country runner he sure isn't great would you you take shredded over jacked Nicolas Lirio (03:05.758) I'd take shredded. Nicolas Lirio (03:09.562) yeah. I'd take abs over big old Kent Boucher (03:11.259) I'm not saying like you know like world strongest man jack. I'm saying like Mike Tyson Jack. Nicolas Lirio (03:18.136) No no no w I'd take abs over big shoulders, Riley? Kent Boucher (03:21.482) I am happy to be rectangular. That that that is fine with me. If if I've got to pick a shape, I'm gonna pick a rectangle. I think that's you fit through things, you can fit in places. Yeah, you see those like really, really jacked guys that can't open a jar of pickles, you know. I don't know. Just not the life for me. Your your your whole love. Your whole up fit through things. yesterday I was out in Looking at this hog cart that I that my grandpa used to use all the time and and it is interesting, around the same time when I was still lifting weights, we had talked about moving out to my grandparents' farm eventually. And my grandpa was like, Yeah, I'm thinking about just scrapping this hog cart unless you want to help me replace the floor in it, 'cause it had all rotted out over the years, hundreds of loads of pigs, right? It was just big wood planks. I was like, No, we might want that someday, you know, we might and that day has come. Well yeah, it's it's gonna be time to schedule a haircut for our hogs here soon or whatever they call that. And Nicolas Lirio (04:27.424) Isn't it taking him to the farm? Isn't that Kent Boucher (04:29.39) Yeah, farming the sky. Sorry, sorry. But gonna take them to the mattresses. No, that's for a gang war, right? Isn't that from the godfather? Anyways anyways, I I'm gonna need that hog cart soon, right? And so my grandma and I were looking at it yesterday and it is like kinda sitting cock eyed in the Nicolas Lirio (04:35.192) The everlasting f Riley Rozendaal (04:36.332) Or Nicolas Lirio (04:44.75) I'm sorry. Kent Boucher (04:57.472) Off the side of the machine shed and the tractor's parked pretty close to it. My grandma's like, Here, come over come look over here. I think this thing still has the brackets on it that you need. Can you fit through here? And I'm like, No. And my son Jonas like, I can get through there no problem. Like, yeah, well Must be nice. Try gaining two hundred pounds. You know. Nicolas Lirio (05:18.88) Is the sign of a good movie. Is if it's funny when you're a kid and then it's still as funnier, funnier when you're an adult. The the Incredibles. And the scene where Mr. Incredible like doesn't fit in the two I don't know what I was laughing at when I was eleven, but that's flipping hilarious. Kent Boucher (05:24.942) Tourist trap. Riley Rozendaal (05:30.702) Yeah. Kent Boucher (05:35.5) Yeah. Riley Rozendaal (05:38.26) This big old gut. Nicolas Lirio (05:38.414) Come on! Nicolas Lirio (05:42.49) my goodness. Yeah. Kent Boucher (05:43.986) I I think a great my dad had this idea and I agree with him. I think a great cult classic film would just be this premise. Some you know how they have those those tube water slides where they like drop the floor out on you and you like go down through a a tube. Yeah. My dad my dad saw that at a water park about ten years ago and then of course he the ideas just started flowing. He's like they should have like Jack Black be this guy who went to the water park. He's a big fat guy. You don't do all the funny humor while he's going up the the stairs, you know, it and then he goes to drop in and he just gets stuck. And he's stuck there for like two seasons. And they can't figure out why he why he can't you'd have to like set up the premise, well we can't cut it 'cause we might hurt him or whatever. Yeah. And and you find out like his his friend is like sneaking him in. Like the whole idea is you just gotta lose the weight man to get down this slide. But his friend like sneaks him in burgers every night or whatever. Riley Rozendaal (06:42.479) Dude, that would be a great movie. Nicolas Lirio (06:45.334) I bet. Kent Boucher (06:46.24) if it was Jack Black, you know what I mean? You'd have all the water at like the bottom of the slide just be like brown. Riley Rozendaal (07:00.056) The Nicolas Lirio (07:00.914) I've been cooking like a lot of meat, you know, just cause doing no carbs, like what is there like there's meat and cheese basically. And our apartment is starting to kind of like kind of smell like greasy meat 'cause it's in a basement. And so, but we keep we have four fans in our basement and then we have two that are plugged in and they all run all day all the time. All of the fans. Kent Boucher (07:20.47) Wait, what what are we talking about fans? Just like moving air around the room type fans? Nicolas Lirio (07:25.134) Two of them are two of them are ventilation fans that are just always on the outside the building. Okay. Yeah. Kent Boucher (07:29.378) Bed two. Yeah. The closet. Riley Rozendaal (07:33.198) Well doesn't. But you know, it's like Nicolas Lirio (07:37.39) Then like like on the top of the fridge next to the stove there we're just like wiping grease off every week. It's it's it's actually kinda gross. So it's like but we I I cook like a lot of meat. But the other day was asking like, Aren't you worried you're gonna like She she's dramatic. She like to be funny, she's like, Aren't you worried you're gonna like die from that? And she's like, Isn't there like poisoned beef going on? Riley Rozendaal (07:48.717) My wife? Riley Rozendaal (07:57.208) No, what are you talking about? Riley Rozendaal (08:01.742) I was like what so and I don't I don't Nicolas Lirio (08:06.222) I actually like ground beef that much. Like you have to put it on rice or something for me to want ground beef. The only other time I would use it is hamburgers. But I'm like, I just buy I buy cheap steaks, like whatever the cheaper steaks are. And if you go to Fairway after 8 p.m., they almost always have meat that's going bad that day. And like one time I bought $20 per pound meat, or it's like they can't legally sell it. Riley Rozendaal (08:26.168) So it was it was Kent Boucher (08:27.374) That's the big difference from can't sell it. Nicolas Lirio (08:30.67) Sell it, sorry. And it's like twenty twenty dollar per pound meat I got for four ninety nine per pound. I bought a bunch of it, I cooked it all the next day. It was fantastic. Wow. But you gotta go after eight PM and you gotta you gotta like Riley Rozendaal (08:31.562) And and Kent Boucher (08:45.314) You gotta know a guy who knows a guy. And then you go to this alley behind the store and you gotta hand him some crumpled up money. It's gotta be cash. Nicolas Lirio (08:55.976) Is like on Friday, Austin was like, Yeah, that China reject beef. But did it like make it to the US? Is it like officially here? Kent Boucher (09:04.494) I th I would assume so. I mean this w I think the deal went through around the first of September, didn't it? And here we are at the twenty second. I don't know. We could find this out. There's been recalls in Texas and Florida. I don't know if it's related to that beef. Nicolas Lirio (09:13.674) I don't know. Nicolas Lirio (09:20.664) Well there was a screw the screw worm or whatever was found in Kent Boucher (09:23.496) well that's in yeah, that's in Texas, but that's in live cattle. That's affected live cattle whereas yeah this this import was trim product. Nicolas Lirio (09:26.763) that you're saying okay, recall on. Nicolas Lirio (09:33.422) 'Cause my understanding was that the whole China reject thing was like a was like kind of a not necessarily a myth, but kind of a conspiracy, like did that actually happen? And then Austin was just like, yeah, that happened and I've I believe him. You know, he's a informed food man. Kent Boucher (09:47.062) Well, China rejected a shipment of beef and we're importing beef. Are they connected? I don't know, but who's to say timing, you know. So according to Gemini here, which is citing the White House, says that it entered so the discounted Imported beef under the administration's ninety day tariff relief plan began entering American circulation on September one. Okay, so three weeks in. You've been chewing on it. Four ninety is steeply discounted for ninety nine. Those four ninety nine illegal stakes. Nicolas Lirio (10:19.55) So it is here. Interesting so Riley Rozendaal (10:29.454) I seem fine. I I seem fine. Nicolas Lirio (10:31.266) I haven't used the bathroom in three weeks, but I I feel great. Yeah, I'm feeling good. man, we should actually get started. Nicolas Lirio (10:42.936) Coffee time Wednesdays with the Prairie Farm podcast. Can't hit us with the jingle. Dee dee. Riley Rozendaal (10:55.118) I want to tell you a little story about our team here. Years ago, years ago, my dad and I were talking. We said, What is the point of this company? We knew that it was conservation. We knew that we were growing seed to help people, but we we didn't know where we were going, what we wanted to actually do. Did we want to mostly plant on other people's land? Did we want to mostly grow native seed with high quality ecotypes? Did we want to mostly consult with people? We didn't quite know. So we we spent months, literally months. Nicolas Lirio (10:57.39) Here at Hoxy Native Seeds. Riley Rozendaal (11:23.8) Boiling it down. And we came up with this goal that we want to provide education and native seed for landowners and land managers who care about their neighbors, their investment, and the wildlife around them. Now, of course, with education, you can go to hoxynative seeds.com and we've got a huge native plant database. We've got a learning center. We've got tons of you can listen to to learn some from the four. But for the native seed, that's actually what pays the bills on everything else. So if you need native seed or guidance on your native seed journey, planting a prairie or a wetland or a savanna mix or even a shady mix, remember our goal is to help you not just with the native seed, but we want to educate you every step of the way. So we're not just gonna ship you seed and ghost you afterwards. We're gonna take care of you. We have people that call three, four, five years later with management questions, and we're here to answer them. That's what we want to do, but it's all paid for. Buy the native seed sale. So go to hoxynative seeds dot com and we'll talk to you soon. Nicolas Lirio (12:23.574) Welcome back to the Prairie Farm Podcast. Coffee Time Wednesday. I'm your favorite host, Nicholas Lirio. Favorite co-host, Ken Boucher. Favorite co-host to the co-host, Riley Rosendahl. First of all, very sorry about last week's podcast. we're gonna try and make sure that never happens again. Second, pissed at Riley for calling me co-host of the co-host, the co-host last week. Kent Boucher (12:30.67) Hey. Howdy howdy. Kent Boucher (12:45.24) Apparently places you somewhere behind dog. I was worried that people couldn't hear me win on our Riley Rozendaal (12:49.006) Brutal. Brutal. Nicolas Lirio (12:50.359) Yeah. Riley Rozendaal (12:55.15) Yeah. Yeah. Nicolas Lirio (12:55.896) Did you end up winning? I think you did end up winning just by the hair on your b Kent Boucher (12:59.16) But just by the consolation bonus point, but what a Nicolas Lirio (13:05.378) Well I've got two ish topics today. One, we just can't every week I'm like, we're gonna talk about Wendell Berry this week. And then I just we just don't. So the absolute legend Wendell Berry passed away on August 31st, 2026. Why is that sad? Why did he matter? Well, the man was a genius, and here's how he was a genius. One he was teaching college, he was like a professor when he was thirty, which is not a normal thing to be doing. But he let me actually flip to this correct page. Nicolas Lirio (13:40.182) He went through his life fighting for conservation at the most nuts and bolts of them nuts and bolts level. Right. He he he fought more than anybody else I know. And basically when he moved back to the farm, I believe it was his head of his department said, you know, if you go there, you will never come back. Like you you you can't take a four year break from academia and then just like come back. And he was like, I don't care. I'm going back to the farm. And Riley Rozendaal (13:46.038) Nicolas Lirio (14:09.612) I believe his farm was like even by the time it hit him in the nineteen sixties, it was like a fourth generation farm. Like they his great grandfather acquired it after the war of eighteen twelve, which is crazy. Yeah, yeah. And so he goes back Yes, he was in, I believe, Kentucky. I've got it somewhere here. and yeah, Henry County, Kentucky. Kent Boucher (14:29.782) It was the south, right? Nicolas Lirio (14:39.698) And well what's interesting is he had so many generations and he happened to be the one that was raised on the farm. I think that, you know, it's very coincidental that someone that's so good at writing and such a advocate for conservation happened to be in line with the person who ended up on the farm. not unlike my dad, 'cause there were a lot of different family members, a lot of different males, you know, around and and he was the one that just by how it worked with his grandfather and his father ended up, you know, running the farm when he was I when he was in his, I believe, late twenties. when he was in when he was about eighteen he was running it for his dad 'cause his dad had an in town job. My dad did. But anyway. what made him such a legend, here's a few things that he did. He pulled his personal papers out of the University of Kentucky, because the University of Kentucky had had accepted seven million dollar gift from coal operator Joe Kraft. That was one of his big fightings was Riley Rozendaal (15:18.858) Okay. The Nicolas Lirio (15:36.77) Wendellberry was fighting coal in Appalachia area. And he could and he it says, I couldn't live with the university administration decisions to form an open alliance for money with the coal industry because they had, quote, sold an advertisement. basically they had wanted they'd give them seven million dollars, but you have to name your basketball team Wildcat Coal Lodge, or basketball dorm. And He that was at the time that was his legacy, his career. He wasn't this famous writer. I mean, he was successful in his own right, but he wasn't this famous writer. And where he was showing up on these papers, he was willing to say, I'm gonna take my name out of the public. I'm gonna take away all personal credibility, all personal gain in this to be able to do this. When the man was 76 years old, he slept on the governor office's floor. Riley Rozendaal (16:28.928) Yeah. Nicolas Lirio (16:34.156) With 20 other people calling themselves Kentucky Rising, to basically lobby about the office in Frankfurt over a mountaintop removal. And the governor had refused to give them meetings, and so he stayed there all weekend, just slept there and stayed there until Beshear, Bashir was the Bashir Bashir, finally agreed to meet with them. I don't even know how that meeting turned out, but just to get a meeting, that man Riley Rozendaal (17:01.416) Seventy six. Nicolas Lirio (17:03.276) My grandparents they couldn't even sleep on a couch, you know. Kent Boucher (17:05.869) I'm kinda surprised you're allowed to have twenty four seven access to the building. Nicolas Lirio (17:09.742) You know. and that was in 2011. That wasn't that long ago. and 2010 he won the 2010 National Humanities Medal from President Obama. He finally he received it in 2011. and he of course is a very famous writer, with his most famous being Unsettling of America. and in it and another thing is he refused to use electricity in his house because he knew that that specific electricity was coming from coal mining. So he had electricity available and he he used lanterns in his house to be able to to like work and do his writings and stuff like that. Well, I mean, w into the late nine 1900s because he was so against coal mining. And you know how on this podcast I always bring up, I don't know if we're gonna be willing to do the like hard thing to actually, you know, are we gonna pay more money? Are we gonna be able to do that? This dude did it more than anybody else I've read about, you know, and I'm not trying to take away from the other legend of conservation, but this guy did it in his bones with no what we call reasonable selfishness. He just said, look, it's unreasonable for us to use coal. Like you say it's unreasonable for me not to not use coal. I think it's unreasonable that we use coal. And he fought for it and and I I wouldn't say sadly, because he was ninety-two. He'd been married to his wife 69 years, but sadly he passed away August 30. Kent Boucher (18:35.51) Realize he was that old. I thought he was in his eighties, but that's Nicolas Lirio (18:38.626) Yeah. Yeah, he's he's an old guy. He's kind of he's he was I mean a caricature of a dude. You know what I mean? But I wanted to give him a little honoring. He he passed a few weeks ago and he was a heck of a dude and we he's been quoted on our podcast probably literally probably twenty times, you know, from different people. Kent Boucher (18:56.054) Yeah, the I th I I believe it the origin of and I think it was Luke Fritch who when we interviewed him last, which we really need to interview him again. he had a he had a good s summary statement that I sent to you guys recently, a week or two ago. Mm-hmm. And we will not repeat that on the air. but he was a big fan of Wendellberry and he was the one who pointed out to me the thought of exporting our future generation. which by the way this idea that Wendell Berry introduced Luke Fritz through one of his books, the idea of we raise our kids to leave. there's a Norman Rockwell painting that I became aware of a few weeks ago which pictures this perfectly. I sent it to you guys recently, the one where you have the I believe it's a farmer with his son waiting to go off to college and the dad, you know, is like looking very like he's losing something and the son is looking like he's gaining something. It's just captured very well. Wow. And and that idea, which I I think is probably because is probably our most like there's a bunch of things that have to happen in the here and now that are acutely problematic to solving the more chronic illness, which is we're losing our people. So what are what is what is a place without its people, you know what I mean? Yeah. as far as, you know, human consideration goes. And that's happening in the Midwest. We are we are losing our future generations and Wendelberry, he he was key in pointing that out. And yeah. And I think it's it's all connected to how are we treating the place and what are we leaving for the this next generation to want to come back to. Yeah. And it's it's just part of an ongoing conversation that we're gonna keep having in the Midwest of, you know, how Kent Boucher (21:21.856) As the average age of farming increases every year, how do we know how do we show young people that there's a future in agriculture, you know? Yeah. Something they can participate in, not just be a an employee of maybe. Right. So Nicolas Lirio (21:37.814) Yeah, I I'd I totally agree. And I think having ownership, I've even heard on bigger podcasts like billionaires talk about this, that that corporations are failing at supporting the people working for them. in a way where people are willing to get behind the corporations because back when they had pensions or you know they they people really rooted for their company and they'd stay there for thirty or forty years. Now I'm not necessarily vote vying for pensions. I'm just saying that we like larger organizations, if they're able to make a place for the future and say, hey, there is a future for you, look at this and incentivize them in in such a way. I think that's the way Kent Boucher (22:20.974) Well, I think I gotta think land prices are a big part of that too, right? Like y if you're gonna be somewhere and the the idea of a pension or I know a lot of companies who don't do pensions but they do the you're a stakeholder in the company. if you want someone to be a stakeholder in an area that they come from, part of that is people wanna be able to own a piece of it. And and if it's viewed as this impossible that that'll be thirty thousand dollars an acre to be able to live there or operate there or whatever, then it's an I guess this is a place where I should enjoy now while I'm here and plan to be gone from when I'm grown, you know. Yeah. Well it's a foregone conclusion in their in their mind, you know. Yeah. Nicolas Lirio (23:04.108) Yeah, I I agree. Well Nicolas Lirio (23:10.072) Man. Well, I actually the real thing, everyone who I'm sure saw the title of this podcast, we're gonna talk about fire and ticks and fire and flies. So I was looking for an etymologist to interview and I called a gentleman and he said, Look, I'm not your guy, but here's some of the guys that these are your guys. Yeah. and one of them was, I believe, a former student of this gentleman, and the former student is now goes by Dr. S Scasta. Scasta S-C-A-S-T-A. And he Riley Rozendaal (23:38.296) He did a but Nicolas Lirio (23:39.234) bunch of studies on horn flies on cattle after it's been burnt after and this is the general consensus if if you just google Dr. Scasta, you'll see a bunch of his studies. He's done a bunch of them and they kind of overlap in their usefulness, if that makes sense. Like he had a bunch of isolated studies that all point to similar conclusions. Burning a prairie cuts hornflies on cattle by 40% without adding any chemical or cost besides the burning. Yeah. So the recommended rate of how many hornflies can be on a specific cattle, I guess this is down to a science, is 200 before it starts economically impacting you. With on the places that didn't have the burns, the cattle were at 350 to 500. horn flies per cattle. On the places that it was burnt, it it did not get under the 200, but it was 250, 220, and 200 and 212. How many flies were found on the cattle? those were on average. So they'd like burn a field, they'd go to the cattle, and then one study would have like an overall average. It was a little above the economic, you know, depreciation, but again, it was way, way better. So it drops it by forty percent. It's actually called the economic injury level is is what they consider if if there's over two hundred flies, that there's a there's an impactful economic injury level. and I guess horn flies take about thirty blood meals a day. Crazy. Kent Boucher (25:21.388) Yeah, and the the economic impact really comes in because they're they're not grazing as much, you know. You think of like the dog days of summer when flies are worst and horn flies are worse, you know. The the temperatures are super high, animals aren't grazing as much, they're trying to find shade, and then in that shade the flies are finding them and you know So So what a hornfly is that is that a it's a like a de d would it be what we call a deer fly often? Or it's it's a bite it's a biting fly. yeah, there's there's a couple different flies that that afflict cattle. Like I I've always called them horn flies and face flies. you know. Just because that's where on the animal to hang out. Yeah, that's that's how I was always Nicolas Lirio (26:06.702) No, I know they're different than like our your traditional stable fly, but yeah. Also, the assumption, and he he assumed this in his first study, that the fire burns up the manure, kills the maggots, and a lot of the but it's it's not that. If you this podcast you or someone you love. Riley Rozendaal (26:23.628) Listening to the podcast, that's because you really cares about conservation, water quality, or systemic changes in agriculture. And I want to tell you about a company that does all three at the same time: Iowa Cover Crop. Now, Iowa Cover Crop, we've had a long-standing relationship with them, and it has been amazing. Way before they sponsored the connected with them and bought a lot of cover crop seed, and they have bought a bunch of native seed from us. And let me just say they are wonderful. Nicolas Lirio (26:43.886) Podcast. Riley Rozendaal (26:52.642) People. They're family owned, community oriented, and they run a heck of a business. So they've always taken care of us. Now they don't just serve Iowa. They send seed to Iowa and every state touching Iowa. And they don't just do cover crop. They do forage mixes, waterway mixes, any kind of small grain or food plot mixes that you could hope for. Basically, if it's not corn and beans, they've probably got you covered. I highly recommend this company if you are looking for cover crop on your land, doing it for a long time wanting to dabble. Nicolas Lirio (27:19.022) Whether you've been doing a long time or you're just Riley Rozendaal (27:22.328) We applaud you and we recommend reach out to Iowa Cover Crop. Nicolas Lirio (27:23.842) you dot com. He he did a specific test across a bunch of different fields. and what it actually is is structure. Horn flies follow the tall, thick grass. Yeah. and so yeah the face flies I I believe are the like the stable flies and those are looking more for like woody cover. but either way fire would would would decimate mitigate it yeah would and then as the grass is growing up one The cattle want to hang out where the field is burnt. So that was another part. It wasn't it wasn't that they on one of the studies, they didn't burn the whole field. They burned half of it and then just let the cattle be where they wanted. They want we've talked about this a bunch. They wanted to be where the fire had burned through the grass. They got the fresher grass, but there's way less hornflies in that area. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. And so I you know, I imagine the hornflies would be terrible in unburned prairie, you know, just unkempt prairie that year after year. Kent Boucher (28:23.502) Tons of habitat for him. Nicolas Lirio (28:24.78) Yeah. so cattle spend about if if given the choice and both ecosystems are healthy, they will still spend seventy percent of their time in the burned ecosystem as opposed to the the other tall grass. and it is important to note that he did some of the studies in Oklahoma. And here's the deal. If you if you burn and you're in drought years, it does not matter. The hornflies will be there anyway because I think the drought almost mimics it so they don't like congregate one place or the other. But in Masic Grout grasslands, which is Minnesota, Iowa, you know, the eastern half of Nebraska and South Dakota, Missouri, Illinois, and those grasslands, it that's where a significant jump. I mean forty percent. So literally there's an economic if you have a big enough herd, there's an economic incentive. Now I also looked up, then I got curious, is there a difference in how much economic fly value is drawn from feedlots versus pasture? And no study has been done on it. And the main thing is because usually when these studies are done, they're done by they're done on one species of fly, not as much on the economic value. So it's not like overall how much are the insects affecting the cattle? It's Kent Boucher (29:40.866) Yeah. Nicolas Lirio (29:44.808) overall, how much does this one insect affect the cattle? So they're not it's apples and oranges, different ki in the there you have stable flies, which is the feedlot area, and then you've got your horn flies, which is the grass area. And so y it's apples and oranges to compare. Kent Boucher (30:02.134) There's lot of variables you're trying to replicate, like where does where does waste go on one feedlot? You know, does it stay close? Does it get hauled somewhere else? You know, there's yeah, there's some factors going in there that can make it tough to decide. Nicolas Lirio (30:14.542) In South Dakota on the train, and it looked miserable. It was huge. I mean, it was like hundreds of acres, but it looked so miserable. The cows were all congregated in one area, and I'm sure that's where the food got dropped off. And I mean, it was just like a wasteland. And I was like, this is not there's not life here, you know? So not trying to tell you you absolutely can't have feed lots. I'm just saying there's life in one of them and less life in the other. All right, let's move on to ticks. Kent Boucher (30:33.087) yeah. Nicolas Lirio (30:43.566) 2024 Kansas study. Now I want to be clear. This one is not peer-reviewed like Dr. Scastas was. This was more a coordinated research effort from non-professionals, is what was going on here. but it was coordinated through Kansas State. they studied burned pastures four years running and then counted the ticks. they burned the ground to it like as thoroughly as they could, like a really thick burn. The counts. Seven ticks in the spring burned pastures. When afterwards when walking through a group of them would walk through and then two. So seven ticks in the springtime burned pastures, sixty-one in the summertime burned pastures, 117 in the fall time burned pastures, and 1784 in the unburned pasture. Yeah. Kent Boucher (31:34.28) Wow. That's insane. Riley Rozendaal (31:37.55) No, I know. Nicolas Lirio (31:38.254) So the worst one seven ticks in the spring burned passion. Kent Boucher (31:40.616) What was the best one again? Sure. What do they do they lay out the parameters for what they consider spring? Nicolas Lirio (31:48.692) No, tha that's a good question. I did not see anything about that. Like what what is basically Kent Boucher (31:52.542) Maybe they j maybe they went by the actual like equinoxes and and solstices. That's Nicolas Lirio (32:00.078) I mean that'd probably that'd be my guess if they're gonna have an official timeline. the spring burns obviously beat the fall burns, but every single one of the two hundred and thirty-four lar larva came off unburned ground. Zero larva in the burned pasture. Kent Boucher (32:17.19) I mean that makes sense when you think about it, like when are the insects hatching? You know, it's in spring, so you're hammering right right at hatch and versus fall, which is still good. That you're not getting at you're you're you're burning after the hatch, obviously well after the hatch, but you are eliminating the habitat. So Nicolas Lirio (32:37.102) I mean i it it's interesting. So so listen to this. That was the larva, but the nymphs I I don't understand the stages of ticks very well. But the nymphs, I guess, is a stage and that's where they bite the people the most. And they had 1,269 in unburned pastures that were found and four during the spring burned. that's like such a dramatic difference. and then almost ninety eight percent were lone star ticks. and that's the Alpha Gall tick. yeah, which is like speaking of me from earlier. Kent Boucher (33:11.598) I got I got a Alpha Gale or not Alpha Gale. I got a Lone Star tick bite when we went to Keith Horns. Yeah. Nicolas Lirio (33:18.636) Really? Interesting. I tell you about the time Judd and I went out, took pictures at this prairie we'd planted Kent Boucher (33:24.806) yeah, and you walked through like a hatch or something, didn't you? Nicolas Lirio (33:28.974) Apparently I had like I found one on me, I was like, okay, whatever. I fli we were in the truck right afterwards and I flung one off and then Judd got another one on my neck and I was like, I bet I have a bunch of them on me. And I I I got out of the truck Kent Boucher (33:41.162) After Judd pulled that one off, he's like My life is over. Nicolas Lirio (33:45.516) I I I we were still on the gravel road. I jumped out of the truck and I stripped off my shirt and maybe my pants too. And I I pulled off like twelve like from me and and I had a white shirt panty. I mean a little, but not like not I've I've had a lot of ticks on you know it doesn't Kent Boucher (34:03.256) Judge on Help Help Judd started throwing dust and gravel at him. Just run me over, Judd, just run me over. Riley Rozendaal (34:07.606) Quicker wiping down. Nicolas Lirio (34:07.84) I need to now. Riley Rozendaal (34:11.645) man Nicolas Lirio (34:14.54) And and Kent Boucher (34:17.763) Twelve of them, huh? How many were attached? Nicolas Lirio (34:19.149) Yeah. None yet. We had just literally walked through the field and yeah, none that had been attached. Kent Boucher (34:25.986) Best part of that story is where Judd pulled one off your neck and you just went straight to, I bet I got a ton of on me And I did. Yeah, you did. Riley Rozendaal (34:33.267) Well, it's real. Judd literally went yeah. Kent Boucher (34:38.136) Did he have any on the Nicolas Lirio (34:39.234) Yeah, he's like, I know I have a bunch, I feel crawling on me right now. I'll wait till we get back to your house and I'll shower and and g he sh he used a lot of water. I mean he showered forever to get this thing. Kent Boucher (34:48.929) Went way over our water quota. Usually we have a five gallon bucket outside. I had to go back to the creek four times. Riley Rozendaal (34:56.558) So this Nicolas Lirio (34:57.496) This is the last really interesting thing to me is that burns wear off and that ticks bounce back within a year. One year they'll bounce back on their numbers. Now, I don't know, it didn't say in their study did they burn like Kent Boucher (35:15.476) John Judson, doesn't he burn every year? Maybe we should all just be burning. I mean, like maybe that like what if the Midwest burned their prair prairies once a year for like ten years? Would we would we like hammer back the tick population? All the b all the birds would cease to exist. We wouldn't have any ground testing birds, but we would have we would have no tick. Nicolas Lirio (35:17.421) Yeah. We do. Riley Rozendaal (35:39.458) But Nicolas Lirio (35:39.788) You alternated for Kent Boucher (35:41.134) That's true. I feel like the the moral of the story, both with the flies and the ticks that you brought up is that fire is a good tool like in Chris Helzer he's mentioned, like the patch burn grazing technique, you know. Grazing it one year and then leaving it fallow and then burning it, you know, maybe come back fourth year. I think that like most things, moderation might be might be the answer. There's no moderation going on when Nick was swatting those ticks off himself. He was just thinking about lighting the whole world on fire every year. Nicolas Lirio (36:16.142) I took my nine millimeter and I started angry about the things. I mean it's terrible. Riley Rozendaal (36:19.163) the Nicolas Lirio (36:22.266) the moderation is whatever. But yeah, I think that the do you guys remember when we burned our prayer we burn at the beginning of May, as most people hear, but it's because we have monoculture grass fields. the June gr the June bugs that fly out of those fields are unbelievable. yeah. It it's it's like overwhelming, especially 'cause usually we're getting to we'll finally d get a finishing field at like Kent Boucher (36:25.518) Yeah. Riley Rozendaal (36:31.318) You guys. Nicolas Lirio (36:49.758) Seven forty five, it's getting dark, and the June bugs that fly out of those things are everywhere. and and you'll almost chase You'll chase June bugs into the last field and then they'll all just but you know, I can't I can't imagine how many of perish in that fire, you know what I mean? So if that's the one thing Kent Boucher (37:06.83) Cook some midair, honestly, 'cause they get hot enough, you know. Nicolas Lirio (37:09.976) So the moral of the story is if you have a lot of grassland around your house, you need to be burning that grass. If you want to avoid the ticks, you gotta be burning. If you got dogs playing out in the tall grass every year, you need to be burning the t you need to be burning the grass. That's part of it. There's on the way to Knoxville, there's this guy in between Pella and Knoxville and they've they've got a wooded area and they burn that wooded area every year. I've never seen a tree catch fire. You know? It's kind of cool. They burn straight through the wooded area. I know I I know the sentiment is finally changing on Burning through the Kent Boucher (37:41.04) yeah, definitely. Well, it depends. I would assume on year one and year two, if you're doing it every year, you start to burn you burn up all your snags and stuff. Yeah, because that's the the first year is the worst because you've got all this laying around wood that becomes a smoldering deal for, you know, a week afterwards. But there was a billion dollars on the other side of a twenty five mile stretch of per prairie just loaded with ticks. I mean you could see crawling. You could see crawling on the grass. man. I mean they're just just saturated with ticks. Like the likelihood of you having over five hundred ticks on you by the time you got to that billion dollars on the end of that twenty five mi miles of prairie, would you do it? Riley Rozendaal (38:20.622) I'm Nicolas Lirio (38:21.516) Even if you Nicolas Lirio (38:30.966) Yeah. I think I'd be overcome with emotion that all of my money issues and all of my family's money issues that have ever existed will be gone. Kent Boucher (38:39.726) So your blood. Would you do Would you do Ugh that think about it like the world's best marathon runners on asphalt? Nicolas Lirio (38:44.238) Good. Riley Rozendaal (38:47.373) Even your family. Nicolas Lirio (38:54.406) Yeah. Yeah, or two hours. So you're talking seven or eight hours plomping through that. Kent Boucher (39:00.339) easy. A two day deal. I'm sorry. Yeah, that's you get halfway through it. Nicolas Lirio (39:05.506) No, two mile two mile an hour, twelve hours, yeah. Three Kent Boucher (39:09.23) Prairie? We're talking thick prairie. You you're gonna have to stop for breaks, man. That's gonna you're gonna pick your pick your legs up and you're you're toggle in the grass. Nicolas Lirio (39:19.534) Have you ever seen the ultra marathonists that are doing like a hundred miles, whatever? Kent Boucher (39:23.502) Yeah, but I mean like once again they're on a trail. Secondly, I would do it, but on I would coat myself in Vaseline. No no you bring you bring a tub of Vaseline and you'd be fine. Coat myself in Vaseline and light myself on fire. Nicolas Lirio (39:27.352) Yeah. Nicolas Lirio (39:32.126) All right, Riley. Riley Rozendaal (39:39.45) You would sweat it off. Nicolas Lirio (39:40.542) And like Nicolas Lirio (39:52.782) Yeah, can I set a buyer? Kent Boucher (39:53.742) I'd I'd get to the end. I'd get to the end. Riley Rozendaal (39:59.214) Riley Wood. He'd I mean he'd be skinny boats, he'd be but he'd be he'd be a rectangle that had a billion dollars. Kent Boucher (40:06.03) yeah, I I it's I'm not that I'm not motivated enough. Nicolas Lirio (40:12.248) You're running Kent Boucher (40:14.99) You can handle way more than five hundred ticks, so like well I don't know if humans can, but like some of the I think it's it's either the moose calves in New England or just full grown moose. when they can somebody verify this on the internet? Riley Rozendaal (40:17.006) Sweating. Nicolas Lirio (40:20.675) Well there's Nicolas Lirio (40:44.046) I was just looking this up the other day. Kent Boucher (40:45.32) I can't remember if it's an adult or it's a calf, which makes a big difference. 'cause you're talking a huge animal. But but the average moose, I think it is, has like fifty to sixty thousand ticks on him. Nicolas Lirio (40:58.422) So I was explaining to my wife that moose will have like a hundred pounds of ticks on them and she's like, No way. And then we like did the we did the math on how many Kent Boucher (41:11.064) How many ticks and what that w equivalent weight is? Nicolas Lirio (41:14.088) Yeah, and and it wasn't quite a hundred, but it was like at the at like a normal amount would be forty to fifty pounds, and it was like upwards of seventy pounds of ticks on on on a movie. Kent Boucher (41:25.612) So you would think how much time they spend in water that would help. I don't know. Nicolas Lirio (41:31.144) Do do ticks drown? Is that like a thing? Kent Boucher (41:33.24) They just migrate to the top of their back. Yeah, maybe. Nicolas Lirio (41:36.728) But they get so fat, you know what I mean? That sucks. So they fill with blood and then what do they do? Like they just fall to the ground and like all right Kent Boucher (41:43.064) And they can reproduce, I think. Isn't that how how does it get enough energy to reproduce and complete their life cycle? Yeah. Nicolas Lirio (41:50.136) You know who I've really been getting into? I can't even remember his name, but he does like terrariums and he tells these little stories. So he'll get like a little frog and he'll try to get it to he'll he'll bring the frog like a girlfriend and he'll try and see if he can get like look and he's telling this cute little story about frogs interacting and like but he builds these terrariums around it. He's never done well on ticks, but he's done some on spiders and it's flippin' fantastic. It is fantastic. Kent Boucher (42:13.262) Stuff that keeps Nick up at night. Nicolas Lirio (42:20.264) man The reason we didn't go too far into what we're doing this week is because we haven't done anything this week. Riley Rozendaal (42:20.322) And well hey. Kent Boucher (42:25.836) It's so repeat. Remember when we were talking about El Nino? Yeah. Riley Rozendaal (42:29.774) So Nicolas Lirio (42:30.806) If you want a prop response on getting a quote on something, now's the time to do it. you know what's really cool? Someone just came in and asked for a quote on a program that PFI has, practical farmers of Iowa, but I think their branding is PFI because they do things in other states, where it's like a lot of money to transition something from row crop for five years. so if you're interested, you got some row crop that you want to transition but you can't afford that first year or two or you're not getting any money from it, you should give them a call. I think it'd be worth the while. I don't know any other details. I literally just heard it today, but and then also make sure you're checking out the forum. My cousin Alex, you'll hear more about it on Friday. But my cousin Alex came out with a really cool car video. I know that sounds silly, but it's like an hour and a half of him restoring this car. If it wasn't good, I wouldn't recommend it. Highly recommend. Kent Boucher (43:23.904) And there's gonna be like hoxie adjacent content on there. He's working on one for one of our gleaners that he's replacing an injection pump in here soon. And so he's a great mechanic. So you'll you'll learn stuff, you'll be entertained. Yeah. Nicolas Lirio (43:33.814) Yeah. And he's just a caricature. Nicolas Lirio (43:40.628) Up garage. Super interesting guy. but I think that's all I got. You guys got anything else? Kent Boucher (43:46.134) Nope, just would be nice to have some dry weather or maybe invest in hover harvesting equipment or something. Yeah, yeah. If you got some sunshine send it our way. Yeah. We could use it. Nicolas Lirio (43:57.878) Man. Well, we really appreciate y'all. We'll talk to you again next time.