What does it look like to run a prairie seed company through a year of great change? This week Nicolas takes the hot seat for a "losses, stalemates, and wins" check in on Hoksey Native Seeds. There's a costly auction headache, a lost podcast file, combine breakdowns, and a stubborn Ohio spiderwort field, balanced by a great new hire, a growing podcast, and a surge in backyard prairies.
They also talk about fears like CRP and cash flow, why native pasture has them excited, what gives them hope, and advice for anyone thinking about starting a prairie farm.
Check out this episode of the Prairie Farm Podcast to find out more!
Listen now on Podbean!
You can also find this episode on other popular podcast networks:
VIEW PODCAST TRANSCRIPT
Nicolas Lirio (00:00.716) My name is Nicholas Lirio. I'm the CEO and president of Hoksey Native Seeds, and this is the Prairie Farm Podcast. I'm Mark Kenyon. Kent Boucher (00:08.95) I'm Dr. Julie Meechin. I'm Steve Hanson. I Nicolas Lirio (00:11.542) I'm Jill Bebout, Chad Gravey, my name's Jeremy French, Laura Walter Kent Boucher (00:15.48) Carol Hoxbergen, owner of Hoxie Native Seeds, and this is the Prairie Farm Podcast. Nicolas Lirio (00:22.05) This is Hal Harry. Kent Boucher (00:23.183) Back on your Hudders and Anglers podcast. Nicolas Lirio (00:25.326) Skip Sly, Iowa Whitetail, Valerie Van Coten, State Historical Society of Iowa, Dr. Matt Helmer, Iowa My name is Laubarger with the Native Habitat Project. Kent Boucher (00:31.614) State University. I'm Judd McCullum, I appeared out of the wilderness and this is the Prairie Farm Podcast. Nicolas Lirio (00:39.946) Welcome to the Prairie Farm Podcast. Want to tell you a little story about my wife and I. Several years ago, we found out that our insurance company was literally spending millions of dollars lobbying against conservation in our state and our federal level. And when we found this out, we said, uh-uh. And we decided right then we were gonna get a new insurance company. And that brought us to McKay Insurance. Now, if you know me, you know that I'm pretty thorough when I make some of these decisions. And I look for through a bunch of different agencies. And they seemed great, but McKay Insurance stood out because of the people that I met there. They were wonderful. One of their agents actually went through the whole rigmarole to set us up with insurance that she and the agency didn't get a cut off. They just wanted to make sure that we were insured. Whether you're needing life insurance, health insurance, car, home, and auto, reach out to McKay Insurance, they will get you taken care of. If you are tired of your insurance company lobbying against you. Go to McKayNS agency dot com. Kent Boucher (01:44.95) All right. You wanna know what my family was doing for fun last night, Nicholas? Nicolas Lirio (01:51.456) Eating chips and salsa at a Mexican restaurant. Kent Boucher (01:53.998) No, actually I am I am avoiding all restaurants that use ground beef and I don't know where exactly they source it from right now. I I'm not kidding you. I I seriously am. I I did go to Culver's over the weekend though because when I was researching this after talking to Austin Freric, we're talking about the for the forbidden Trump beef right now. Yeah. He implied that like, yeah, I mean, if you aren't like super diligent about looking up where is this processed beef coming from, you're probably gonna get a bite of the beef that was rejected by the Chinese government and Bought at a low, low price. We imported at the reduced re rejected rejected price point. Nicolas Lirio (02:55.374) Garbage is very cheap. Kent Boucher (02:57.454) And I so I was just do I was putting it into Gemini over the week and I'm like, so where is this likely to you know, like what fast food places are likely to have this? What what what about these types of restaurants? What about fast casual? You know, and like it it was like, yeah, th that these places will very likely I won't say which b business, but I would encourage you, the listener, to go and do that. So we didn't we were not we were not having any we were not at a Mexican restaurant last night. So what we were doing for fun is I had told or somebody had listened to how did this go now? I think I might have been on the phone with my brother. And he was he said, and the kids could hear him talking on the phone. He's like on speaker phone. He's like, Did Nicholas really fall asleep during that one podcast episode? And so after I hung up with my brother Jake, my wife was sitting there and my oldest, they're like, Did Nicholas really fall asleep during one of your podcasts? And I was like, Yeah, let's go find it. So we we all hung them around YouTube last night. And and The whole the family was roaring with laughter as we were like skipping through the podcast to find out when would Nick have been most sleepy. And you were man, you were you weren't quite like Trump during a press release sleeping, but you were you were you were having these like super long blinks. Like you were Nicolas Lirio (04:39.246) I I think I fell asleep for a second. Kent Boucher (04:42.014) I know you did, but I couldn't find the exact spot. Nicolas Lirio (04:44.31) And 'Cause it cuts to whoever saying anything and I was asleep. Kent Boucher (04:50.262) Right. But man, every time you'd make like a super sleepy facial expression, everybody would just die laughing. Nicolas Lirio (04:59.303) It was a hard podcast to sit in on. I did not really listen to do it. Kent Boucher (05:03.266) You are I You are an entertaining person, Nicholas. That is that is what I'm saying. You were the source of my family's great family night last night, setting around Nicholas. Nicolas Lirio (05:16.696) Here's here's here's this isn't true. I love the vouchers, but it's like the vouchers they they ate white bread for their whole life and I introduced cheese on that bread for the reason and they're like Can you believe? Kent Boucher (05:28.334) Yeah, you have you have added some flair. I did hear some some feedback on your commercial for McKay Insurance where you say that you ask your friends about their finances. And I've had multiple people who would be, you know, the what what's the old the the allegory of the cave where the man's in the back of the that's what you're talking about with the white bread thing. And someone shows you the light or whatever. So w from from my culture of friends and family who have existed in that same part of the cave as I have, when they hear that on they said it makes their skin crawl. Nicolas Lirio (06:14.142) I bet. And I I've gotten better where I now, if I if I'm like becoming new friends with someone and I think we're gonna be really good friends, I tell them that. I say like, yeah, I ask all my good friends about the finances. You know, I just want to and it like sits in the back of their brain, and then one of those dreaded days, we're sitting next to each other, how your finances? good, you know, good. Yeah, it's always good. It's never bad, it's always good. How much money you got in your bank account? man, they d they don't like it. But to their credit, they've always answered and and and everyone I've asked that to, and then the second, third, fourth time that I ask they do they answer easily. You know, it's like once you rip off that band aid, that that shame, it's just shame. It's just all hierarchy and shame. And you can't no way you fix conservation without also feeling the shame, so Kent Boucher (07:05.314) What about shame for somebody who I mean, I'm I'm sure there's some people that have shame over having very little money in their bank account. But what about somebody who has shame over having a lot of money in their bank account? Nicolas Lirio (07:23.81) I I don't I don't know the way that I deal with that, if I'm like I think this I definitely don't do that. Well, no, I do I do that, but not right away. If if I have a close friend and they go to church with me and they pers they profess to have the same values as the church, it's like I'll I'll bring it up. Hey, you're actually doing this thing. but I warm the person up with Kent Boucher (07:27.714) You're not tithing, are you? Nicolas Lirio (07:53.516) by telling them that I get asked for money a lot. So and I wanna be really clear, I don't have a lot of money. That's not but but people say, he's got a few businesses, you know Nicolas Lirio (08:05.994) Riley owes me so much money. Literally owes no man money. my goodness. I I he's my hero, honestly. actually that was the question that got Riley hired in the interview. Said how do you handle your personal Kent Boucher (08:23.246) I remember that. I felt shame about myself ever since. Nicolas Lirio (08:26.99) His answer was unreal. My mouth was like Kent Boucher (08:30.106) You're probably legally not allowed to say what his answer was. Nicolas Lirio (08:34.477) but so when people or I I just tell people like yeah I get asked for money law and then I talk to them about how it feels. You know, I I I feel like I'm laying the community down when the soccer club comes in and asks for twenty five dollars, you know, or whatever, and then you're deciding, and that's fine, you're gonna give twenty five dollars every time, but Literally almost every day someone goes into Spire and asks us for money. And so Danielle and I, so I walk people through that, how I feel about it. And then they know that I know what it feels like to get asked for money. And I think what that does, or at least one person told me, is what it did for them is it alleviated they didn't feel like when I talked to them about money, I was creeping in to ask them for money. And one time I did ask someone for money. I sat down. I said, Hey, I'd like to talk to you about a thing. I sat down, I said, Hey, just so you know, we're gonna talk for thirty, forty five minutes and I am gonna ask you for money. Just I'm just gonna ask you for money. And and it went really well. And they said no. Kent Boucher (09:39.47) So that method doesn't work. Nicolas Lirio (09:42.978) Yeah. So I don't overile the money. No. I but the the shame of of having too much I don't know I've never encountered that with people, but I I encounter the like Kent Boucher (09:57.698) Not of having too much, just having an abundance, we'll say. Nicolas Lirio (10:00.8) Yeah. Yeah, it's in I I I wonder if I almost feel that way. Cause I think a lot about like Thurwell countries or where like where people's trash actually ends up. And I'm like like the other day I went up for prayer at church and I I didn't have a real thing. I just wanted to pray out, you know, Bible says to pray. So there are a couple guys up there that I knew that liked pray as well. And so will you pray for me? And they said, Yeah, like thinking there was something wrong. And I was like, Look, man, I am a spoiled baby. I don't there's nothing like just Pray for me that I'll love the people around me better. Yeah, I think is what we ended up settling on. And and you know, I get that kind of like, man, maybe I should have like quite a bit less, or why does that what did that I don't actually think this, but like these thoughts of like, what happened to that country, or what are those th what did that country do to be in such a state that they're in? which is not a good way to be thinking about who has wealth or who doesn't have wealth. But yeah, the the the money thing's real. And especially now. Handling someone else's money because I'm the executive of an estate, right? And so I'm I'm handling someone else's money and the beneficiaries are elsewhere, right? And so that's like you can go to jail mishandling, you know, someone else's finances. So it's made me think a lot about like, what is stewarding someone else's finances actually look like? Doing things in their best interest with my best decision making skills. And then do I freaking do that for me? You know what I mean? And I don't always. And that that has really bothered me last several months. I'm like, I don't even do the stuff that I'm recommending other people do for their money, you know? Kent Boucher (11:38.254) That's the that's the importance of virtue signaling. You can you can say these things. No, I'm just kidding. Yeah, that's Nick Nick could talk forever about money. Let me ask you this one. Yeah. Because you get asked for money a lot, would you be in favor of a law will make it a federal law? So everyone has to abide by it. That you are not allowed Nicolas Lirio (11:43.182) Yeah. Kent Boucher (12:07.758) To ask anyone for like fundraiser money, you know, like, the Girl Scouts, you know, we're we got this big although they kind of earn theirs. They sell they sell a product that America clearly wants, which is the Girl Scout cookies. So they're a bad example. But we'll say just some some club or some where it's just a straight up, maybe they're maybe they're selling you some coupons or they're selling you some you know frozen food or a fruit basket. We used to have to sell fruit baskets for band when I was In junior high. But Nicolas Lirio (12:39.906) Did you sell a bunch? Were you good at it? I was Kent Boucher (12:42.634) Anything related to band, I was terrible at, okay. Even the selling of a fruit basket. I was I was I was dismal. Nicolas Lirio (12:45.948) You in the selling of the f Nicolas Lirio (12:54.222) Did you pretend to play when you were out there? Kent Boucher (12:56.792) yeah. yeah. Especially we like I had a very dedicated, strict band director who'd who had been there for like thirty plus years. He would I th I think it was the only district he worked in he retired from. And so we would like go to marching band competitions and stuff. Like we would we would you know travel around the state and I was a weak link for sure. So I I knew either I can focus on Nicolas Lirio (12:58.754) I really really. Kent Boucher (13:25.366) walking into the right spots or I can focus on playing the music, I cannot do both. So I would just push the buttons and make zero noise come out and then I would walk to the right spot on the field. So I know when judges came walking by me, they heard nothing coming out of me my trumpet. I mean I w I was basically forced into band. So I was more into like opening my spit valve on my friend's leg, you know, so like I was doing nonsense like that all the time. But yeah, they w it wasn't good. But if you could have a law, federal law that said no more no more panhandling fruit baskets, but every tax paying, you know, like you gotta file ta for taxes at the end of the year person in America has to pay a one thousand dollar tax that goes to a charity pool where all Entities that register for cherries. Now it'd have to be strict, like do you count as someone who's allowed to get from withdraw from the pool? And if so, you get, you know, this tier of a percentage of the pool. Would you rather just be taxed that extra thousand bucks to never have to tell another person no, I don't want your fruit basket? or take another call on behalf of the Illinois Police Officers Association, which I'm pretty sure is a scam. I get hit with that one all the time. But what whatever whatever it is, right? Like you just can't be b you are unbothered with it, but the money just just automatically goes to the the charitable donation, the fund pool thing. Would you would you take that trade off? Nicolas Lirio (15:05.864) No, it's too centralized. Kent Boucher (15:08.248) No, I only give about thirty five cents a year, so Nicolas Lirio (15:11.214) No, I wanna have I wanna have sit sit down conversations about money, whether you should give or not give. And and I don't want it to be centralized like that and I don't want I don't want forced giving. Kent Boucher (15:26.222) If you could count your church your church donations towards that one thousand dollars quota Nicolas Lirio (15:33.518) No, I I don't think so. I don't think so. I because I like I kinda like it when someone asks for money and I kinda like saying yes or no. You know, that directness. I really it really bothers me when people say we I think we only give to three places in Knoxville and and we but we give larger chunks of money. Kent Boucher (15:51.566) Nicolas Lirio (16:00.684) And I think that's probably better because then we actually come next to those organizations. Yeah. You know, and and so one of we give money every year because they hire us and give us a bunch of money. And then the other two, Danielle and I literally went like there's a lot of bottlenecks and it's in every town there's a lot of bottlenecks, areas that they struggle where it's like we want to have a healthy town, but these are the areas that struggle. And we just Kent Boucher (16:04.718) And you're invested in that. Nicolas Lirio (16:26.72) said what are the smallest ones? One what ones are throttling the success of our town the most and we just give to those two different organizations that we think are opening those bottlenecks the best. But I mean this sounds terrible. My wife worked in social work for like People can be a black hole of resources. They don't have to be, they're not always. but they can be. And so at some point you gotta be careful, you know, where you're giving that money. And so we're trying we try to assess that. And like half of all social work comes down to like families being dysfunctional and you just can't fix that with money. There's in some ways it can help, you know, if if people aren't having to worry about groceries, but I think yeah. Anyway, that's a whole tirade. Kent Boucher (17:15.937) Yeah. No, I I I think it's I think it's an interesting answer. Nicolas Lirio (17:19.947) Yeah. I've I've thought heavily about like should Hawks and AMCs be a five one C three? You know, like should it just be a non profit? You it'd be you know, well your new role would be paperwork pusher. And you know, then we could take Kent Boucher (17:31.182) My role has changed immensely in the last few weeks. You know, I've gone from farmer to combine repairman to weatherman. Nicolas Lirio (17:42.71) Yeah. Yeah, guessing on the weather is that what Kent Boucher (17:46.352) So paper pusher, maybe it's in the future. I don't know. Nicolas Lirio (17:49.11) Also, I got it. I got we had a meteorologist, and I don't know if he technically would consider himself a meteorologist, a weather expert on our podcast. Yeah, a couple of weeks ago. Unbelievable guy. Very smart, very nerdy. And I say nerdy endearingly, like in a good meteorologist. Yeah. but what was interesting to me is like the meteorologist you see on channel eight, like, that dude's not. Kent Boucher (17:55.807) Climatologist maybe would be Kent Boucher (18:04.49) I'd say hydrologist would probably be more of a Nicolas Lirio (18:17.752) They're not the same people that study well. Kent Boucher (18:20.522) One that's in a research you have you have somebody who's in a research trajectory for their career, which is which is Dr. Hornbuckle. And then you have a meteorologist, which is someone who's more of a give me what I need to know as far as the the nuts and bolts of understanding meteorology, but then they're purely application. Not that research is an application in its own way, but it's like straight up This is what the weather's gonna do, man. Nicolas Lirio (18:50.296) But if you just read off a teleprompter. Okay, that's fair. Kent Boucher (18:52.866) They they study it. They I I used to think the same thing, but it's like it's legit. They they know their stuff. Nicolas Lirio (18:58.808) Well I I'm happy to be wrong. I guess we could just be a teleprompter for prairie grass and not a Kent Boucher (19:02.752) I often wonder with stuff like that, which is the importance of continuing Ed, like a meteorologist who graduated college in nineteen seventy nine, graduated from university in nineteen seventy nine, versus somebody who graduated from college in twenty twenty three. A lot of things have been learned developed technologically speaking since then. Nicolas Lirio (19:25.452) Yeah. Kent Boucher (19:32.482) Things like satellites and Nicolas Lirio (19:34.126) Yeah, I d I I couldn't even list the things that have been learned. I'm so like such an infant on Kent Boucher (19:38.606) Because yeah. Right, not that somebody is dumb, but I mean just like the the like the baseline of being up with the latest technology I think is really important in the sciences. Nicolas Lirio (19:50.86) Yeah, I I that's true. I felt ignorant talking to Doctor Hornbuckle. Like Kent Boucher (19:56.866) Well and a researcher, they're nothing but continuing it. Yeah. Right. They're they're the ones collecting the data and developing and the extrapolation. Nicolas Lirio (20:04.248) Yeah, but I didn't even understand the things that you need to understand to understand what he was even talking about. You know what I mean? I was I was ignorant. Kent Boucher (20:12.616) it was I I really enjoyed it though. Nicolas Lirio (20:14.946) Yeah, he was an awesome episode. Kent Boucher (20:17.154) But okay, we can't get we can't get too hung up here on on some of these side topics. We have a list here. We are doing interviews with Nicholas and then later myself, and it's a great day for it because well it's what, the tenth or eleventh day straight of rain. Nicolas Lirio (20:36.174) It is so wet. It's just it's not even like raining outside, it's just the the s the air is wet. Kent Boucher (20:41.518) It's very humid. Yeah, I've had the F2 parked in the shop. It got rained on one night because I had a hydraulic hose blow and so I couldn't drive it back to the shop until I got a new a new hose for it. So it got rained on one night and I I fixed it, got it back in the shop, and it's been in the shop for four or five days now, and it is still wet. It's just it's just that humid. The air is Nicolas Lirio (21:10.574) It's not taken, it's not drying. Kent Boucher (21:11.784) Yeah, and I mean it rains off and on pretty much every day and there's everything's wet. Nicolas Lirio (21:17.73) We were talking about who was gonna interview who today and I was like, let's wait to interview you, Kent, because you're Kent Boucher (21:23.726) You may not be employed anymore. Nicolas Lirio (21:27.214) The the harvest this year is so wet that even row crop farmers are starting to be Kent Boucher (21:33.934) It's gonna be a great year for deer hunters. Nicolas Lirio (21:37.131) And a great story for podcasts. Kent Boucher (21:38.978) Terrible year for pheasant hunters because the pheasants are gonna just be hanging out in the corn. But the there's gonna be a lot of standing crops until could be a great year for shed hunting too. I don't know. might might be more evenly distributed across the ag land. But but yeah, it's it's it's a great day to do this, but we wanted to catch up on a post since the last time we did this basically, a post-2025 update and I kinda say it that way because twenty twenty five is an outlier year for us. Mm-hmm. Carroll was sick for all of it of course, but he was basically very sick from I would say March through, when he passed away on June seventh of July seventh. or sorry, July seventh of of twenty twenty five. And so that colored how the the year went. I mean, at least for seven months of it. And then of course, because he was involved in that way as still our leader, but being very sick, that affected the front end. But then of course, losing our most knowledgeable person and our leader affected the rest of the year immensely. And of course it still affects us to this very day. But it's just I kind of view that as an outlier year where we're basically trying to use the old way of how we've been doing things, but it was being done by somebody else to survive the year. And now we're at a point where Nick is our leader. And for our business decisions, I am leading on the farm side of things. We've had this full year almost we're we're wrapping up harvest of Just the new the second generation of hoxie. And so I thought it would be a a good a good way to like designate what this interview is. Now I want to do it in this way. So in that window of time, I guess maybe what do we say? December, because that would have been when we were done with harvest. So December, I think we had our big company meeting in late October or early November. December through now our best. Kent Boucher (24:03.256) December of twenty twenty-five. we're gonna do losses, stalemates, and wins. And we're gonna do a hoxy first, and then we're gonna do personal. but let's just start with the losses. So start negative and work our way towards positive. So what are just and let's limit it to maybe two for sake of time. Two two losses that have just like gotten under your skin a little bit. Not that you're like you can't get over but but just like you'll remember it. At least if it's ever brought up in conversation ever again. Nicolas Lirio (24:41.356) I bet we lost. fifty thousand dollars on the auction in the beginning of the year. That was a big L the team. And I'm not I'm not trying to poop on another auction company. I'll just tell it from our point of view and and what happened that a young kid was sent out to take pictures and sticker everything. And Kent went out there and for a couple hours walked this kid through Kent Boucher (24:49.365) yeah. Kent Boucher (25:07.96) Five degree weather. Yeah. Five degrees. Thirty five mile an hour winds. Nicolas Lirio (25:13.49) And said, Hey, we're gonna sell this, we're not selling this, we're gonna sell this 'cause we we're keeping a lot of equipment and this and a couple times Kent says like like, Hey, do you need do you need to write this down? Kent Boucher (25:26.06) I said, Are you sure you don't need to write this down? Nicolas Lirio (25:28.968) And this kid says, no, no, no, I'm good. And Kent at one point I remember you telling me, like, well, he is a professional like he does this all the time. I guess, you know, he's got it figured out. So we get the sheet back from them. He and then later, after Kent's done showing him around, the kid and by kid I mean young 20s, stickers everything and takes pictures and leaves, and then they send us the list. And we showed them I'm I I think this is correct. We showed them Kent Boucher (25:37.614) Photographic memory. Nicolas Lirio (25:58.048) a hundred and two things to sell and they had stickered like sixty-one of them and nine of the ones they stickered weren't supposed to be sold specifically Kent had pointed and so we ended up stickering half of them Kent Boucher (26:14.35) Thank goodness there's O'Reilly in this world. Nicolas Lirio (26:16.498) Riley took care of it, rightly wrote descriptions and reserves, and then was having back and forths with the project manager who is not this kid. And they weren't putting the descriptions on the auction page. And we were like, these descriptions are really important. Because one, on the crappy piece, we don't want that person to get screwed. We want them to know it, you know, it's not a great piece of equipment. And two, the for the ones that Kent Boucher (26:43.96) Really good. Nicolas Lirio (26:44.478) Yeah, it's like you need to know. And I mean this for like a month, Riley's going, Hey, I don't understand why you haven't put this up. Hey, or here are the reserves. They finally have the auction. They had put up most of the descriptions and they do we do two sections, one auction and then another. And then the first auction afterwards, they hadn't set the reserves. So that like created a nightmare for them because we're like, Hey, we set the reserve at six thousand dollars. We're not letting it go for twenty four hundred bucks. so you need to pay us the difference. Or you need to refund that person and, you know, deal with them on the flip side. So they so that was a nightmare. Kent Boucher (27:22.094) Yeah. Nicolas Lirio (27:24.16) Yeah, and then yeah, and then we finally sold it our own selling it. It was just like it was just a nightmare. And finally the project manager, you gotta remember, this is like a billion dollar auction house. This is a big company. The project manager finally calls. I think I can't remember. I think he told me this on the phone because Riley was just so frustrated. He's like, Yeah, I I can't really read. I don't understand how to read email threads. I could you just every time you send us an email, send me a new email. Kent Boucher (27:27.582) And then a different person got it. Yeah. Nicolas Lirio (27:53.93) And we were I like couldn't believe that a project manager of a billion dollar company couldn't read email and not like not like a sixty-eight-year-old guy, right? A middle-aged, perfectly capable guy, and I was in disbelief. So I won't lie. Auction was a big L. Way too much energy for the money we got out of it. It was a big L. I would say I mean there were other Kent Boucher (28:17.438) Yeah, I would say I would s I would say it was it it ended up being a net positive, but it's but we won by a field goal. When when we should have won by five touchdowns. Nicolas Lirio (28:24.599) Yeah. Yes, yeah, exactly. That's that's a that's a good way of saying that's a positive way of looking at it. The the other piece was I don't know, there were a bunch of other losses, but I had a bad one last week, guys. You've probably listened to it. That terrible audio on last week's coffee time when that was because I've never had this before. I've never had this before. I was editing A pod the coffee time podcast a Tuesday afternoon at like four PM. I was gonna have it wrapped up by six and uploaded. And all of a sudden, my Premiere Pro goes, Hey, that file you're editing, it's it's gone. Could you locate it for me? And I was like, weird. And so I like go and I start looking for it and the file's nowhere. So I look up in the backup places, it's nowhere on the computer. And it was like a nightmare. And so, but not only that, listen to this guys. We had interviewed an awesome hunting interview with an awesome person and an awesome Loeb Rangers interview. My gut. Kent Boucher (29:36.79) Which which were the lo the Lob Rangers and and all of these people came to us. Nicolas Lirio (29:41.486) They came to us, they drove our Kent Boucher (29:44.063) And the Lobe Rangers are three guys that all work together but are from significant differ distances from each other. Nicolas Lirio (29:52.384) So we couldn't I couldn't just like I'm so sorry, we'll come to you, we'll do what we'll do weekends, whatever. It was like it was an ordeal to get it scheduled. I Kent Boucher (30:01.428) And we've been allies for a long time but we haven't really known each other. We've just had so it's like this was finally the meeting of the minds. That's great. Nicolas Lirio (30:07.726) All week when I'd think about it, my gut would literally just drop. And I went to Walmart that night and I bought dark chocolate and I ate it. That's the only you know and for everyone probably heard that I haven't been doing carbs and sugar. I had carbs and sugar Kent Boucher (30:24.088) He went straight for the jugular. In fact, he was injecting it right into his neck. Neck arteries. Nicolas Lirio (30:30.018) I actually ground it up with milk in a blender and I just stuck it right there. and that was a huge L. Now thankfully the hunting podcast will we're redoing, it'll be out in a few weeks, and the Lobe Rangers agreed to come. They were so gracious about it, but I mean, I just felt so flippant to it. And it's scary. It's scary to know that your system that's worked for three hundred and ninety something episodes now might once out of every four hundred episodes isn't gonna work. Kent Boucher (30:58.742) Right. Yeah. And there there have been some guests where I mean like I mean imagine if it was one of our Wisconsin or Illinois tours where we had we had invested all that time and money. Yeah. Nicolas Lirio (30:59.544) That was scary. Nicolas Lirio (31:12.916) Or like a gubernatorial that happened with one of our gubernatorial candidates like twelve minutes in, I realized it wasn't recording, but I caught we caught it. And it was before they had won the primary so they weren't near as busy and yeah. Anyway. Kent Boucher (31:26.318) So that was that was definitely an L. Couple L's there. what about stalemates? Just where like when you you like maybe thought this was gonna be something or you you figured we'd gain ground on this, but things remain remained the same or something like that. Nicolas Lirio (31:29.294) That was a Nicolas Lirio (31:39.848) I got one for you, dude. I got I got two. I got two. one are all crops because last year we spent so much effort fixing them up and the wild bergamot field just shot him in the face this year. Yeah. And what was the other one? Golden Alexander Field. Which I don't think was a golden alexander fault. That was more of like the combine of just all. Kent Boucher (32:02.062) Well, and I had a I don't remember how I got it. I do remember how I got it. When I was direct harvesting Bick Nell's sedge. Remember I did it with a direct cut harvest this year. yeah. And it worked great on the first day of doing that, but then we had had some rain and there there was just more moisture there than I realized and it caused a plug and it broke the back end of the the drive on the back end of the combine. And I had fixed that I ended up fixing that same problem four times this year. And I had gone to try and direct harvest the golden alexanders and it created this horrible. Which then meant I had Nicolas Lirio (32:43.534) And you guys can actually on Hoksey Native C social, you can actually see like Kent trying to fix it and stuff. So just like feeling more confident with the combines and then them doing a little better, but not a lot better, you know, was just like that was i I felt stalemate. I I just felt it didn't get worse. It just didn't feel like we got better in that area, and I really wanted to. Like we had a we talked about it for like two hours at one of our big retreat meetings. You know, it's just and then Kent Boucher (33:11.212) You probably throw the gleaners in too with Nicolas Lirio (33:12.994) Yeah, I just put all of them in there. Yeah, 'cause I mean we had a an injec injection pump. I I'll let Kent talk about it when we when I interview him. But yeah, that was like a stalemate. And then the other one is our dear, sweet, beautiful siren Ohio spider wart. And by siren we mean every year it shows up and it's so pretty and so beautiful and you think, My goodness, we're gonna have such a good harvest and most years it's an L. This year a total L Kent Boucher (33:39.746) Yeah, like one hundred percent. Like you lost by a field goal. You got forty burgers, man. Nicolas Lirio (33:44.27) Like negative three thousand dollars an acre, Al. this year, I think we broke even. Like I I I think doing the math, we're right within that break-even range. It's really tough to actually figure that stuff out because you're amateurizing over several years. But I think we broke even for the year, and I'm happy with that. But It looked so good that I wanted it to be the like slam dunk here. And it just wasn't. And I don't understand how people s have sold Ohio Spiderware for $120 in the past and make money. I just don't know how they do it. but yeah, at our at our current price, we broke even. I'm happy with it, but it wasn't like a main. I'd consider it a stalemate. But we call it a siren because it lures you in and says, Don't destroy me as a field. Don't put beans here. I'm gonna be good for another year. I promise. And then we freaking Kent Boucher (34:33.856) I do th I do think we have a good plan for it going forward for it to Yeah. To go from winning by a field goal to I know maybe a touchdown. Yeah. Nicolas Lirio (34:41.462) We'll we'll keep you guys let you guys know if it actually works for Yeah. Alrighty. Yeah. So those are my stalemates. Two big W's. Kent Boucher (34:50.262) All right, two big wins. Nicolas Lirio (34:57.848) Judd answering the phone. I it was I mean, Kent saw it w during busy fall and busy spring. It's like thirty call that calls a Kent Boucher (34:59.565) Yeah. Kent Boucher (35:07.746) Don't don't be confusing when Riley came on versus when Judd came on. Nicolas Lirio (35:11.466) No, but can you Kent Boucher (35:13.922) I can't even imagine you mixing seed right now. Nicolas Lirio (35:16.616) man. Yeah, I used to do all that. Isn't that crazy? I used to like help a lot with the production. I then I was regul relegated to I did all the mixing of the seed and keeping it organized and then I was doing all the phone calls. I was doing man, I I can't im like if I had to do help in the field plus Kent Boucher (35:33.494) At the same time we had w we had way less sales volume back then too. Nicolas Lirio (35:37.196) Yeah. It w it was kind of interesting. Our average sale has gone down dramatically, but our sales volume volume, like the amount of invoices we write is up dramatically, which I consider a really good sign. And the reason is is because people are putting in backyard prairies. Yep. And that's where we Yeah, because we've put in some wild strawberries in some of these people's backyard prairies. Just it it's gonna be cool in in four years when they their kids can go out and just pick strawberries. It's gonna be awesome. but Kent Boucher (35:52.728) What's the word? Nicolas Lirio (36:07.254) So I Judd coming on and Judd proved to be better at at like the computer stuff than I thought he would be. and he's just unreal. He's not a salesman. We didn't hire a salesman. We hired the nicest guy we could find that loved prairie and knows a lot about prairie. Yeah. And so when you call, I've been told this Kent Boucher (36:28.75) Shud is the Lorax. Nicolas Lirio (36:32.131) Yeah. He's like if Kyle Liebarger was was part Bigfoot, that's like what? Kent Boucher (36:41.175) If he appeared out of the wilderness, yeah. Nicolas Lirio (36:43.182) and yeah, so he I've been told a couple of times, like I don't feel like he's selling to me. I feel like he's really helping, which is like our MO is helping people with education and the native seed they need for their land. So I and it is comforting to me to know that someone's talking to Judd and they're getting really good information. You know what I mean? That's really important to me because what I worry about is if you hire a salesperson, they'll do what they need to get the sale, but then in three years Your reputation will be fine for two years when you're telling me, No, no, don't worry, keep mowing it. And then three years, four years when nothing's there, you don't have a business anymore. You know, you're nobody else is calling. You're not actually helping the world at all. And you hindered prairie a lot because everybody sees their neighbor that tried and it failed and they're like, I'm not trying that thing, right? So Judd was a huge win. what was another big win? I think I would put the podcast in the bit the big win. Like where where I feel where people we have a lot more listeners than we did a year ago. And I'm really encouraged by the people who are listening who reach out. they're intentional, they care. A lot of them are landowners, a lot of them are decision makers, a lot of them are doctors and you know, or have doctorates or even literal doctors and veterinarians, and it's like I think part of it is we just don't claim to be an expert on anything besides how many square how many seeds per square foot of wild bergamot you should put in a mix. You like we're we're I but the podcast has really been encouraging to me and it feels like like a some sort of lasting difference. Whereas like even if we got all of this harvested and let's say we hired someone that wasn't Judd and they sucked at their job, like we could put all this seed out there and then it out of the fifteen thousand acres that we helped establish Only a thousand of it's lasting, you know, from now. And that's not a nothing, but I really believe conservation happens one mind at a time. Like I actually believe that. And and so the changing of people's minds I think is just a huge win. I remember when one guy he was visiting and he told us, like, yeah, all I wanted to do was be a corner bean farmer. I started listening to your podcast and now like I want a prairie farm. Like I want I want prayer. I want to see prayer on the landscape and and Nicolas Lirio (39:04.386) I don't know, all four hundred episodes so far might have been worth that one guy's mind, you know, being changed. But yeah, I would put the podcast and Judd. Kent Boucher (39:11.714) Yeah, I think I often think that thank goodness the podcast is successful, however you measure that, because you and I both need it. Like the way we are as people. I I have recently learned I am an outrovert. It's like a new designation. Wow. And I I think you would just Well. Yeah, I gotta read with this random lady all the time as a guy. Nicolas Lirio (39:30.754) You are in a special room in school by yourself. Nicolas Lirio (39:38.924) Okay, for anyone who thinks we're making fun I actually got sent to the room because I couldn't read. Kent Boucher (39:44.974) the this or the outrovert thing is like basically when I used to say I am an extroverted introvert. So like I enjoy being by myself and that like seed cleaning is wonderful for me, or like sitting out in the combine or whatever, I I recharge that way. I'm energized that way. whereas Nicholas is drained. When he has to be by himself. I think it's mostly because of his past. He just hates thinking about all the non virtuous things that he's done. No shape. Nicolas Lirio (40:18.891) All of my trust. Nicolas Lirio (40:22.752) All the money I didn't save that I could have. Kent Boucher (40:26.216) No, so Nick needs to express himself to be energized and he needs to be with people to be energized. but the extroverted side of me is I like to share share what I'm thinking about. I like to share what's, you know, caught my eye or whatever recently. impart wisdom or whatever. Not that I have any to impart, but but I like to I like to talk about what I'm thinking about. Yeah. And and but then I need time to go think. And And so this podcast is a place that has brought Nicholas and me together to be able to scratch both those itches. And I do think like I w I was not in teaching by like complete accident. You know what I mean? Like there's certain parts of who I am as a as like my personality and my person that those traits match up well with being a teacher. it's just there's a lot of other parts of me that don't. And so like just having that outlet I think is important to me, but I also think it's very important to you. yeah. And and and even possibly more so for you because you are so extroverted. So Nicolas Lirio (41:41.388) Yeah, I I have I have like there's collateral damage from my extrovertedness. If I have a if I've been really introverted and working on a computer for a long time, let's say for a week or so and then the next Tuesday, I have like a bunch of stuff I need to get done on the computer. Sometimes I'll get to four thirty and be like, I spent all day on the phone and I didn't actually have to have all those conversations. And I realize, I d have not been with people enough. And I yeah, subconsciously said, you know, and I basically created busy work for myself just so I could connect or laugh with people on the phone. And yeah, I I I I like having people in the office and I really like that at lunch we come together and you know, we eat and we hang out and we laugh and we make fun of each other. I d big fan. But yeah. Yeah. Kent Boucher (42:27.148) Yeah, so I think it's a it it you know, hopefully a lot of good comes from it for everybody else, but I think it's just good for us. you know, we need it. We need that we need that outlet. And I think that other workplaces, not that they need to do podcasts necessarily, but they need to look at that reality of people's personalities within their their workforce. They need to have a creative avenue or otherwise it just becomes a task. Nicolas Lirio (42:32.503) Nicolas Lirio (42:54.892) believe there are some things that are so innate in God and you can tell that they're there because they're in every human. Music, lover of music, you know that God loves music because every it may be different kinds, but we all love music. Yeah. being parents like when people are parent now there are external circumstances that can change that a little bit, but dude everybody loves their child as much as and then I would actually put Gardner. Put Gardner in there. Name someone who like interacted with pl was forced to interact with plants quite a bit and then didn't just start being like, I really kinda really care about those plants. You know what I mean? Or like how many people care about their yards. It's just too high a percentage. Yeah. Kent Boucher (43:36.728) Seeing life, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we are wired for like bio the the biosphere of of our planet. Nicolas Lirio (43:45.88) But i I guess where I was going with that is is creating. Like we we just have to create stuff. Kent Boucher (43:51.618) Yeah, I heard I heard somebody actually it's the carnivore diet guy, Paul Salad Saladino years ago on a podcast. Before I'd ever this is the first time I ever heard of him. He went on meat eater, I think it was clear back in pre COVID time. And he he said on there, look, I just want you know, he's selling his book, right? But he's like, look, I just want people to be as healthy as they can be so that they have they have the ability to be happy, have great relationships, and create art. Something like that. And I that it was that last part, it's like, huh, create art. And I the more I've thought about that ever since I heard that, it was like, that is true. Like everybody People's hobbies are their art, right? Like, sorry, Alex, we're gonna bring you up here. Alex's art is cars or or making things run. Like that is he knows how to do it. He likes doing it. he has a unique skill that stands out from almost anyone else that you come across. He alone can do, and and that is his art. my dad was just at my house recently to do all the trim. I hate doing trim. I hate working doing Nicolas Lirio (44:55.128) That Nicolas Lirio (45:05.206) need to culturally get over trim. We need to not do it anymore. Kent Boucher (45:09.178) And my but my dad but no, because that's my dad's art. He likes he likes doing stuff like that. Doing the little I had a guy refer to it to me once as persnickety details of like you know, filling in the n little nail holes and painting it and making sure it's perfect angle cut. And and that's his art, right? And and it's good for him to be able to express that. And and my wife loves to make good food and and Nicolas Lirio (45:15.298) Yeah, down to the one sixty. Kent Boucher (45:38.99) Have a a tidy house and and have she she loves to like sew and crochet and stuff like that. Yeah. Those are her arts. My mother in law loves literal art. Like she's great at painting, she's great at making crafts. And those are our ways of expressing ourselves. And so I think almost any workplace, and I think bringing this back to you, that's something that Carol. I think prob maybe you already naturally, you know, it's nature versus nurture, maybe you already had that in you that someday when you were gonna be a leader, you were gonna allow people to express themselves in their their best way. Maybe, maybe not. Carol definitely had that in him. And he would I think he saw that we needed that. And he saw that it built a cohesive team for us to have the podcast. Yeah. And Carol's art were it was his prairie and to be able to share that with everybody. I mean, long before you and I were here, he was doing those prairie appreciation days where people would come out and see see us I think that all workplaces can be distracting or keeping people from getting meaningful things of value done for the company. But but I think that a healthier work environment could be achieved in most places if Nicolas Lirio (46:42.284) Yeah, he was very proud of it. He was very proud of the created and yeah. And I'm sure. Kent Boucher (47:03.756) they allowed people to have creativity. I would I would say, and maybe he would ag disagree with me, I would say, for instance, you have given Riley basically I mean, it has to work within the framework of our our workflow here here. What do we call it? The ERP or whatever. Yeah. Is it ERP? Yeah. Nicolas Lirio (47:20.558) Yeah. Enterpr Enterpr Enterprise Resource Program. Kent Boucher (47:23.81) So it has to work within that, of course, so that sales move on to fulfillment. But you've let Riley create a system that works, and that's Riley's art. He is he's very type A and he knows how to put things in order far better than I could even imagine. I didn't clean my desk though the other day. It it looks thirty eight percent better. Nicolas Lirio (47:45.166) Yeah, yeah. Yes you did, and it looks great. I cleaned my desk yesterday. You wouldn't know it. Kent Boucher (47:55.074) Yeah, yeah, we would not have survived without Riley around here. I those are all things that I that I think are important that you have even expounded on, pulled out of us. And Jud Judd being in the Judd loves to be around plants and wildlife. And and I'm just really th I've I was distracted when you're talking about him earlier. Nicolas Lirio (47:57.806) But there's a Nicolas Lirio (48:05.646) Thank you. Kent Boucher (48:16.718) I was like, we need to convince Judd to like shave the goatee part and just have the Lorax part. Man, he'd be he would be so like people would watch horror. Nicolas Lirio (48:25.218) From Hamilton Native Outpost. He had his like handle. Kent Boucher (48:28.63) Yeah, but but Judge should just go right up into his chops. Nicolas Lirio (48:31.418) that would be freaking awesome. Yeah, that would be awesome. The Kent Boucher (48:35.042) And he's got about as much hair as the Lorax up top too, so Nicolas Lirio (48:38.194) He d does doesn't have a lot of hair on the the old shiny part of his head. The I think a lot of success in life comes from being able to be creative and separate it from numbers. Like if if if you're doing your creativity and you're just obsessed with subscribers or stuff like that. Now sometimes you for work you have to. I'm not saying that that's but but are you able to go home and do something creative that isn't attached to numbers? I struggle with it. I struggle with it. Yeah. Kent Boucher (49:05.932) Yeah, that's a that's a great point. I guess Yeah, yeah. Now we gotta do a personal and we won't make you do two. right. You can do one one L, one stalemate, and one dub. Nicolas Lirio (49:08.154) Noise. Nicolas Lirio (49:19.657) One L Nicolas Lirio (49:26.094) How deep is he gonna go? I haven't I would I'd put this as an L. I have hardly journaled this year. Hardly. That is not good for me. My friends don't get as good of a version of me. And the reason is, man, I was listening to a podcast I listened to lot the other day. It's like a bunch of rich people, and they were like, who like self-reflects? That's crazy. You know, like why would anybody they were making fun of another really rich guy keeping a journal and And I was thinking, like, you guys are self-reflective all the time. You literally like you, you know, I was thinking about that. I was like, that was silly. But I am very self-reflective. Too much, a lot of times. It's sometimes introspection just isn't helpful. Sometimes you just gotta know you're in pain and do the things anyway. but what self reflection does, and I do it very prayerfully, is I'm more connected with. myself. What does that mean? What do I actually want in this moment? where are my where are my fears or my excitements? What am I thinking about? What am I scared of? What am I ashamed of? And when I am connected to me, I can then be a lot more present and help whoever I'm with connect to the real me. and like my wife or my friends, you know, and they can tell when I have like a shell up You know what I mean? And I'm just not willing to go there, not being vulnerable. It probably has to do with I haven't sat down and and journaled with myself. And something that I would you know, you go into I'm gonna I'm gonna use a really stereotypical part of the conversation. You g this is not of everyone that I go but you go into like a hardware store and the guy there, he's super gruff and he only makes sarcastic comments about the weather or some sports team are like I I wanna be like Kent Boucher (51:19.918) What's wrong with that? Nicolas Lirio (51:22.946) That dude for sure doesn't journal. You know what I mean? I like I like think that way 'cause I've I'm trying to engage with you on like, hey, how is your day? How are you actually doing today? And they don't want to go there. They don't have to. That's not like a wrong thing they're doing, but I would Kent Boucher (51:35.406) I think it's pretty clear you said he's a lesser human because he's not living life like you do. Nicolas Lirio (51:38.126) I would hope I would hope that they could go home and and express that with their wife, but how you do the little things is how you do all things. So I don't know. Who knows? I would say that was an L. That is an L. I journaled the other day finally and it was hard. The longer you go without doing it, the harder it is. And I have family members that are like, whenever I journal, I just get so angry. I'm like, Yeah, that's you feeling emotions that have been in there for that's like well documented. This that is what it is. You feeling emotions that have been trapped in there for a really long time. And the more you journal, you just let that pain sit in your chest because it is a physical pain. You just keep writing or typing or saying or whatever while you're feeling that painful feeling and it goes away. It always goes away every single time, no matter what. Sometimes it takes a while of journaling, like 30, 40 minutes. It always goes away and you'll feel a release. it's like massaging out muscles. It can be painful. The the neutral. Nicolas Lirio (52:35.958) I'd say my relationships. I I have good relationships and they've stayed good, but I was reflecting a while ago. I'm like, I haven't grown them. I haven't gained new ones in in meaningful ways. I haven't been asking new people how much money they're Yeah. Yeah. And I've been holding my my coworkers at arm's length. I I would say relationship. Like they're good, but they're just a stalemate where they were, haven't grown in And not growing to me is not that's not great. I wanna, you know, continue and move forward and and grow. Kent Boucher (52:48.462) Personally. Nicolas Lirio (53:05.496) So Kent Boucher (53:06.318) Yeah. Okay. What's a big dub? You get to verge signal so hard. Nicolas Lirio (53:12.97) I can cook and my wife will eat it. Now that used to be legit for years, she'd be like, no worries, I'll make my own. I'll make some notes. Now we don't have kids yet, so there's not like you know, there's not like I'm so tired. Yeah, whatever you make, you know, is good for me. I know that's a thing, but I've been learning more how to cook. Kent Boucher (53:35.82) What what is the most recent thing you made that she ate? Nicolas Lirio (53:38.254) I made a bunch of well no one time I made mac and cheese for her and a couple of friends that came over and we ate something else. We did not eat the mac and cheese. let's see. I made is it a shoulder roast? put it in the pressure cooker with some salt and then you know, s shredded it up and put butter on it, and then she added a couple other seasonings because I was trying to stay away from those seasonings and yeah. Kent Boucher (53:42.49) ramen, yeah, yeah. Nicolas Lirio (54:06.998) She ate it. And then I made her fries with it. Threw some fries in the oven. Yeah. It was good. Man, the beer battered fries at Hive, big W for the team. Kent Boucher (54:10.136) Nice. Kent Boucher (54:16.267) yeah, you've talked about those before. Nicolas Lirio (54:18.232) They're so good. I'm craving them so bad right now. my goodness. Yeah. That's that's that's a big W. Gotta see a lot of extended family I haven't seen in years. And that is always like it's so cool to notice the nature in from you in them. Yeah. You know, instead of the nurture, it's like, wow, we are similar, we were raised two thousand miles apart. Yeah. Kent Boucher (54:39.094) Yeah. Yeah, that is cool. It it's fun to see those similarities. Yeah. Well those are good. Okay. favorite moment since December of twenty five. Or moments, I guess, if you got a couple. Poxy related. Nicolas Lirio (54:57.666) Yeah, I Nicolas Lirio (55:03.114) Ma there were a couple of fields where it was like unbelievable like how much we harvested out of that stuff. Kent Boucher (55:07.488) I do not think those were fun. Nicolas Lirio (55:09.71) And there and then we're gonna announce in a month who we hired for the marketing manager and we had unbelievably good applicants. Unbelievably good. but I would say that Kent Boucher (55:25.73) Yeah, how many applicants do we have total? Nicolas Lirio (55:28.118) I we got two this weekend, still and I'd be like, Hey, so sorry, we picked our you know, but when Kent texted me and said so and so is interested in the position, that was exciting. Just because I I I knew the person, I knew how talented they were, I couldn't believe that they would even be interested. Kent Boucher (55:50.286) Yeah, but I want I want people to understand here it wasn't it wasn't because we knew them, like there were some I mean, everyone was impressive, but there was some very, very impressive applicants. yeah. Nicolas Lirio (56:04.012) Yeah. Yeah. There were and and and I mean, like, what are you doing? Why are you applying for this job? You know, kind of applicants. Like, you should be a CMO at Vermeer Corporation, you know, kind of applicants. It was just really it was cool. And it I think it added testament for the story that we tell, which is true. In marketing, I get to tell like my marketing buddies, I'm like, I'm privileged because our story is actually awesome. We don't have to like fabricate a You know, we actually have just an awesome story. My dad's been doing it a really long time and we have been grinding it out, you know, and and that just makes for a good story. And and so I think people saw that. And everybody's getting a marketing degree, you know, so the the especially in the Midwest, it's very saturated. So yeah. I would say when you told me that that person was applying, that was that was big and and and they almost didn't get it. You know, that's how good that the other applicants were. But yeah. And that was before ev a bunch of other people had applied, so I didn't know if we were gonna get really good applicants. Kent Boucher (57:06.006) So yeah. Yeah, it's pretty early in the process. Yeah. that that was a great moment. anything make you shed a tear over Hoxie this year? Kent Boucher (57:23.692) Or just like maybe not cry. No, I don't think so. Maybe not physically cry, but maybe just like bummed you out. Like real bad, like or maybe like real frustrated, like you you couldn't you couldn't solve something or or have a breakthrough on something, or something didn't go how you wanted it. Nicolas Lirio (57:28.985) pretty much. Nicolas Lirio (57:44.288) I still cry sometimes, especially in the mornings on the way to work, thinking about dad. It like shed a tear is probably actually more accurate than cry. You know, my whole body doesn't get into it as much anymore. But you know, I'd shed a tear. I don't think I the things that bum me out here, I would say I I only get bummed out when I get hyper controlling. And I go, I can't control that thing. you know, and I get really afraid and then I get bummed out. When I go, no. God God is with us, and if the world ended today, God would still be with us. And and we are I I truly believe we are doing good work, fruitful work, as Paul says in the Bible, we are doing fruitful work. And and so when I am bummed out, it is truly like my problem. but Nicolas Lirio (58:41.112) Biggest Nicolas Lirio (58:45.646) Bummer. I feel like there was a sale that fell through that I was like deeply upset about or that like went through and then was but I can't remember. It's happened a couple of times. I can remember some other times before this year. I think when those really strong winds came in, you know, we'd had the roof fixed and it was like doing great. And then we had those really strong winds and it was leaking. And I went, This is gonna be a huge fix and this is gonna be a lot of money. That like bothered me for days. And I'm like, I don't know where we're gonna get this money. I don't know. But yeah. But when your roof leaks and you got you you gotta you you figure out and you get the money, you know, until you get it fixed. And so that was a huge bummer earlier this this summer. Yeah. That like bummed me out for days. And it was part of it was just like I was afraid, you know, I was being controlling. Most small business owners kind of are. and yeah. Kent Boucher (59:43.722) Yeah. That's a that's a that's a good one. Okay. so this is now looking towards a future. What are you scared of here at Hoxie? Like what what causes you some fear, some consternation? Nicolas Lirio (01:00:05.582) Well t tell you the the most basic one. What if they don't call and buy seed? They being whoever. What if they don't call and buy seed? 'Cause what does that mean? That means your cash flow dries up, it means you' laying people off, your friends off, and it mean you might be shutting down your dad's farm. You know, they started in the eighties. We've had the farm a lot longer than that, but you know, this the prairie grass has been doing since the eighties. So that The like, what if they don't call? And you know what? Every flip in time they do, my brother in law basically slaps slapped that out of me. He's like, every other area in your life, you're like really hopeful and you've got all this excitement and or you're really pragmatic. And then this one area in your life that actually is good, are people gonna call in and buy your seed? You're just like afraid all the and you're like bummy about it. You're like complaining about it. I'm like, well, you know, what if they don't call it? You know. So I I am afraid of that and I have to I deal with that fear all the time. the other one, the other major one would be government policy. Like I I just am afraid that that could really jerk things around. But I I don't I at this point I don't see the government, even with the hundreds of lobbyists that are fighting towards more corn and beans, I don't see that happening. I I I really don't. But occasionally I get a wave of what if they rip CRP out? And and we've talked about as a team, like if they rip out CRP. Eighty percent of prairie companies are gonna close down, whether they're growing, they're they're establishing, they're middlemen, whatever they do, eighty percent of them or more are gonna shut down and we're gonna swing for the fences and try and be the twenty percent. We're gonna go down swinging. because there will be some need. Backyard prairie, you know, some hunting mixes, stuff like that, but Kent Boucher (01:01:50.778) Well, and what would you rip it out for? I I think that's why you see the the government policy. We've cropped every acre that can possibly be cropped for the most part. Not not entirely. There's probably a one pr one or two percent of the land that's marginal. But That that's part of it. And then also we can't get rid of the corn and beans we have now and for a reasonable price without heavy being heavily subsidized. The government's not looking to subsidize more of that. So yeah, I think I think you're right on that. That's that's a good point. what what are you looking forward to as in the future? As pertains to Nicolas Lirio (01:02:36.718) I look forward to our team. I think if you wanna attribute one skill to me, it's not growing prairie. I'm not particularly good at finances. I'm not particularly good at selling things. I I I am Kent Boucher (01:02:52.116) Just keep that list. Yeah. Not good at cooking. Nicolas Lirio (01:02:55.63) I am just I'm pretty good at being like, I think that's our guy. You know, I th I think that's our guy or girl. And yeah, it well and and and I don't know about character, but at least like are they gonna fit the culture of where we're wanting to head? I'm deeply proud of it. Very proud of our team. And you know, all the business podcasts I listen to, they're like the the boss should spend a lot of time just figuring out who's gonna be added to the team. Yeah. Kent Boucher (01:03:03.342) Yeah. Good talent evaluator. Nicolas Lirio (01:03:23.542) You know, slow, slow, slow to hire, quick to fire. And not to be heartless, just like if someone's gonna rot out your team from the inside and you only got seven people on your team, you better get rid of, you know, fifteen percent of it pretty quick if it's if it's rotten. So I I'm looking Kent Boucher (01:03:40.046) dad my dad who is in leadership roles for schools, I mean he was a school superintendent for like almost twenty years, he said most important part of his job was hiring and firing. And I've I've always remembered that, like for whatever I don't really I don't really seek out a ton of leadership opportunities, but when I do have them I I consider that all the time. Nicolas Lirio (01:04:04.952) That's I I mean, who who are the people I bec I've I've realized that more. Like I could have built all the systems in the world, but if I didn't hire O'Reilly, it w they would have been half as good. Yeah. You know, even with even if we had better systems they would have been half as good. It's just that's just how it is. Kent Boucher (01:04:19.052) Yeah. Well ever every hire has to especially especially if you're in a business that doesn't that you aren't compensated in some way that you can fall back on. Yeah. Like every hire has to create more value than they're taking. You can't you can't ha in a small in a small business that has to create its own market and live and die by that market, you can't have value captures on your team or you will s your boat will sink. You have to have value creators. Nicolas Lirio (01:04:51.294) I yeah, I I totally I totally agree. Well actually one of my one of our stipulations when we hire people is like have you run or started a business? You know? Every single person on our team has run or started a business. and I just want to know like when the job gets tough, will you get it done? And I don't even know I you know, labor laws, I'm not sure, but like all of you guys have been here at eleven o'clock at night, you know, or working on stuff at eleven o'clock at night. It's like it's just It not because I'm down your throat being, you know, you need a you know, it's just like the it's just like that you know what it takes to get the job done, you're gonna do it. Yeah. and so I I I think everyone that we have on the team's got a lot of character, got a lot of talent. and and we're all pretty stubborn. So we butt heads quite a bit, but yeah, I d the team is is I really look forward to the team when we get to get together as the team is growing. Kent Boucher (01:05:42.914) Yeah. Nicolas Lirio (01:05:50.038) So, but then I would put the other thing I'm really excited about is I I get really excited. I think there's gonna be a lot of native pasture put in. I I do. I do. I I know there's talk about offshoring things because people don't want to grow their herds. There are too many young farmers who now see an opportunity to rent eighteen acres and do so and and have a small herd. There are too many that that will be willing to do that. They're gonna start fighting for it. And I think a lot of and I actually I wouldn't argue that all of it should go into native pasture. I'm not there. I I think in Iowa, a third to maybe a half would be ideal, as opposed to the cool season. But, you know, even if 20% of all pasture was native to the ecosystem, it would be unbelievable. You know, it'd be unbelievable for that ecosystem. So yeah. Those are the things I'm excited about. Kent Boucher (01:06:42.242) Those are Yeah, those are good. Okay, I'm gonna save your advice for starting a prairie farm till the end. Okay. as you maybe you're looking at social media, reading the news, water cooler talk, stuff like that. What concerns you about society? One thing that that concerns you about society right now. And going forward. Nicolas Lirio (01:07:16.525) I'm Nicolas Lirio (01:07:20.846) This is I I don't even like thinking about this. This so about fifty percent of people in the United States, just shy of fifty percent, get paid directly or indirectly by government. So taxes taken in and then distributed end up in people's pockets as their main source of income. At fifty one percent you have socialism and you're never going back. Or at least that's the argument. And I think I believe that. Not because everyone wants socialism, but everyone I would consider us in that category. Kent Boucher (01:07:51.244) What what do you consider that as no okay, so people that are taking in government money but not having a net positive and value generated back or just Nicolas Lirio (01:08:07.33) Just people taking government money as their main source of income. Now here's not what I'm saying. I'm not saying all forty nine point eight percent that are doing that, they're all bad. They're not adding value. Obviously there's tons of value, tons of nonprofits, tons of companies that are adding a lot of value. That's that's great. I'm not complaining about that. So I don't want you to Kent Boucher (01:08:24.246) Does this also include government employees and Nicolas Lirio (01:08:26.613) Yep, school employ like county employees, you know. I mean th think about it. Like how many people make most of their money from some government check? Think about like Boeing. How many people work for Boeing and what percentage like if forty percent of their income comes from government contracts or stuff like that, that's forty percent of their employees are getting their income directly from the you know, government checks. So that that's what I'm saying, and then it then when you add the social security And I would say Social Security for people that need it, that are living on it paycheck to paycheck. Again, I'm not arguing whether they should get it or not. My only point is that it really concerns me that we're about to have more than half of our voting base be incentivized, right? Incentives drive behavior. Period. Incentives drive behavior. Remember that. so incentives drive behavior, and about we're close to over half of us have the incentive that More government spending is better. Right? Because that means their paycheck is better. They more for their family. So just on a macro level, it's not that freaks me out about society. And it I I would I would put it in the reasonable selfishness category. Yeah, well, you know, but if they would just increase the CRP budget, you know what I mean? It would be way better for the ecosystem, blah, blah, blah. That's all true. And there's a sliver. And we would make more money. Now we don't say that out loud, but like there's a sliver of every prairie company that's thinking that. Is that our main motivation and stuff like that? That's not what I'm saying either. I'm just saying that let's that might add to the incentive to push for more government spending. where we have a government spending problem. And anybody I mean, that it's hard to to me it's impossible to argue against that if you just look at numbers. And I want to be really clear on this podcast, I'm not saying which group should or shouldn't get money from the government. Just as a whole, if you go home and you have ten thousand dollars you can spend, you know, a quarter or a month and you're spending eleven thousand, you go, yeah, but that was for the kids' braces. Yeah, but that was for that birthday party. That's great. Those are good things. Doesn't mean you have money in the bank to to buy it. And so that's what probably freaks me out the most. And I I mean, on a non selfish level, that was all selfish from my point of view, but Nicolas Lirio (01:10:47.638) On a non-selfish level, a lot of countries depend on our economy. So if our economy goes poop, billions and billions of people are gonna struggle. And we have a giant military, so we can still dictate power how we want. so like with the oil crisis, yeah, right now we're we have way higher gas prices, but other countries have their power turned off for two days at a time. You know what I mean? We're not feeling as much as they are. So that's the altruistic version, but I just gotta let you know that I do sign. Kent Boucher (01:11:16.078) I wanna I wanna argue with Nick a little bit here, but this is his podcast. I will I will say this though, not necessarily as an argument, but just like what percentage do you think would be help would be like a healthy Nicolas Lirio (01:11:32.202) No, I've I've actually heavily thought about that 'cause to me it's like what percentage of our society should be funded and spun around by government spending? Because there is a percentage. I'm not a I'm not a no- Kent Boucher (01:11:43.918) Ha having wanting to have let's go with what we know, CRP, wanting to there is part of I want more I want more CRP because I want these other nice things that I don't have. Yeah. But there's also part of it I don't want my kids dying from nitrates giving them cancer in their water. Yeah, absolutely. And so some percentage of that of that government spending is to uphold the regulations that we have to have that to not to not have a sick decaying society. Right. But what percentage do you think that would likely be? Just ballpark. Obviously you could probably calculate it if you had many days to like look through every Nicolas Lirio (01:12:28.226) Well, I don't I don't so I think the United States' GDP is like twelve Kent Boucher (01:12:30.326) Or even many weeks. Kent Boucher (01:12:39.576) Some reason twelve point one percent is Nicolas Lirio (01:12:42.158) Twelve trillion dollars. I can't remember, but the the United States Kent Boucher (01:12:45.622) Is it like twelve percent above our we we're still in the the black, right? We're we're still producing more than we're we're spending, which is why we can survive on a negative no deficit, right? Nicolas Lirio (01:12:58.104) Well, so it depends. I so if you talk about GDP as in like all companies and everything add together versus like what does the United States Treasury take in every year from so the United States takes in what like six trillion dollars, we spend more than that every year. That's why our debt is growing because then we issue these bonds and we grow our debts. But the but our GDP, like if the United States created a hundred trillion dollars worth of, you know, value Kent Boucher (01:13:26.382) Gross about it. Nicolas Lirio (01:13:27.874) then six trillion dollars, you know, six percent would be a nothing burger. So so now fifty percent is probably too high, you know, government spending to how much GDP we're making every year. I think that's too high. So there Kent Boucher (01:13:40.898) So what is our what is our gross pr production of value every year in America, do you know? Nicolas Lirio (01:13:45.006) I can't remember. I I I wanna say it's like thirty, but I can't remember. yeah, and so Kent Boucher (01:13:49.4) Okay. Kent Boucher (01:13:53.09) PvP is profit, right? Gross domestic profit, right? Yeah. So that's exports versus imports, a value. Nicolas Lirio (01:13:58.678) Right. Yeah, but we can also like like the seed we produce that put on other people that's GDP. It's complicated. and I don't I don't understand it fully, but but I know that there's it should be some percentage of our overall GDP. Your GDP can grow because there's technology that makes you more efficient, your GDP can grow because people work harder, your GDP can grow because your population is growing, right? And right now, all of the United States eggs are in the basket of technology getting. Because we're not having more kids and we're not working more. and so I don't I r I I guess I don't have a good answer for you. What percentage I think would be good. how many of the United States population do I think should get paid directly from the government? I just don't ever want to see it go over fifty percent because then your population base is incentivized to spiral out of control, if that makes sense. Kent Boucher (01:14:52.238) Interesting. That is that is something to be concerned about. what is giving you hope about society? Nicolas Lirio (01:15:02.116) my goodness, dude. what is giving me hope about society? Well, I came from a Bible college where one of the teachers, his big thing was hope. And he said that he said that any area of your life that isn't glistening with hope, whether reality makes sense with it or not, is under oppression. So like it's a bad mindset. Kent Boucher (01:15:04.728) Puppies. Nicolas Lirio (01:15:31.298) He wasn't he was a very pragmatic guy. He wasn't just like, you know, ignore what's there and and just say positive things. That that wasn't what he was like. But he did say like, hey, this situation looks dire, but I am hopeful. And I would say that I mean religion, clinging to clinging to Jesus in my life gives me deep hope. But on a society basis. I Nicolas Lirio (01:16:05.474) I would bet on entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurship is sexy, and I think that's a good thing. You know, it's like the difference between smoking being sexy and broccoli being sexy. They're just different things that when they're popular, that's better, or Backyard Prairie being being in right now. I I like that. That's cool. I think that's better for us as a society. And I think not glorifying too much, but like admiring and there being some status behind people who start a thing against all odds. is hopeful because those are the people who don't they don't sit and they whine, they solve problems, they figure it out, they carry us into the future. yeah, I I'd put that I'd put that on like a societal level. Kent Boucher (01:16:51.411) Good. Okay. Hold on, let me get my phone open. Nicolas Lirio (01:17:00.248) Kent's being so polite. He has like so many things to say and he's just like trying to let me share Kent Boucher (01:17:04.782) How how has your faith changed since December of twenty five? Nicolas Lirio (01:17:11.982) Dude. Yeah, change. Change. That's a that's a that's a good word. Kent Boucher (01:17:16.662) I've recently was was exposed to the thinking. So I'll give you some time to think here. Why I use the word change. I was recently exposed to some thinking. that we are like we have a constant growth. You you ever hear like it if you aren't growing, you're dying type mindset. And certainly that is true to a degree or in certain contexts, but it's not always true. And And there's a book that I'm slowly reading for or reading for, reading through called Baal and the Gods of Moore, where this I this idea of like we worship more. Yeah. And and so I don't know I think and and I think specifically when it comes to any re form of religion, when when the idea is conveyed that y you're either growing or you're dying. I don't think that's always true. And I think it's oftentimes disenfranchising, maybe is the right word, or disenchanting, maybe is a better word where where it's like something must be terribly wrong for with me because I feel like I'm trying real hard to make this to to do my best here and I don't feel like the results are showing You it's basically it's the opposite of of what what is it called? The Why can't I think of it? The type of the prosperity gospel. There it is. yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? The more you give, the more you get. And it's I just don't think that's how faith really works. how has your faith changed? And that's my opinion on it. Nicolas Lirio (01:19:04.182) I think Nicolas Lirio (01:19:09.6) In in in in Bible college there was a one of the teachers was talking about how his time with the Lord was in the shower. And I was like what? That's like you're not giving your all. Shouldn't you just be like dedicating time and setting aside? But the man like he he had I wanna say four kids and he would you know, he was in like a leader of a department of the school. He had a lot going on. And but I was a st I didn't, you know, know any of that. Kent Boucher (01:19:26.902) Either you're growing or you're dying, prof. Nicolas Lirio (01:19:39.591) And Today I understand it more after taking on more responsibility at Hoxie and with the state and just in Knoxville in general and and okay, there's less time. So a lot of my time with the Lord is in the car. But I I would say that in the Bible there's this story about all these Pharisees, all these hypocrites who would make a big deal about how much money they were giving to the temple. And then there was this little lady that came in and gave two pennies. Yeah. Yeah, widow. And she I mean, had basically no way to make an income for herself. She had two pennies and she gave it. And Jesus turned to his disciples and said, That lady has given more than anyone else here. and that's kind of how I feel about that guy saying, like, look, when I'm in the shower, I spend time with the Lord. Like, this is what I have to offer. Now, when I was twenty four and I didn't have nearly as much going on, it made more sense to dedicate some time and sit at the piano and sing to the Lord or open Bible and read for an hour and a half. You know, it's like that made more sense. Now, I think as a Christian, I believe in the Christian disciplines. I believe in reading my Bible regularly. It's been a little while since I've just sat and read an hour and a half or two hours and and just like gone through a whole book. Yes. And so just like the bites that I have. And then I like Lord, this is what I have. And I've put myself in this situation and I'm sorry, but for now, this is what I have. You know, I'd say that's how it's changed. May I I would say two years ago I would have said that was definitely worse. But my fruit when I'm with my friends or my spouse or when I'm talking to customers or when I'm making deals with people, I'm I'm like I I'm still treating them. Nicolas Lirio (01:21:30.21) You know, and I I've noticed that if I don't spend as much time with the Lord, I don't treat people as well. and so the fact that like it's like the Lord is responding. He's like, Okay, you only gave two pennies, but that's what you had. And now I think there are a lot of areas to grow in my relationship with the Lord, but just like you and I have ways we could grow in our relationship, I'm still happy with where it's at. You know, I'm still I still feel close to you. I still feel like a good friend. And so I I would I would put that in there. You know, it it's definitely in a different place and and I don't wanna be giving an excuse for slipping away, you know, and and pulling away from the displa well, I'm just really busy right now. And it that might be what I'm doing, but I do feel like the responsibility I've taken on has been fruitful for me and and loving to the people around. Kent Boucher (01:22:12.43) So Yeah. Yeah, that's good. what are you listening to and reading? What's your what is your creative intake versus your creative IS outtake, output? Yeah. Nicolas Lirio (01:22:27.374) I think about this a lot because I listen to too many podcasts. Like I I can't I can't hardly take all in, you know. I not only do I follow too many, I literally spend too many hours a week listening to podcasts, I think. So I've been trying to listen to music more on the way in to work. Just let it be more relaxing. I don't need to just jam my brain full of business stuff or conservation stuff on the way in to work. I could just like let my brain rest a little bit. But I listen to the following podcasts With the excitement that they come out in this order. Acquired podcasts. They only come out with one every month or every six weeks. And they do a deep dive, like a six hour podcast on one business. They did Disney recently and it was like eleven and a half hours. It was amazing. and they don't they don't like glorify people, they don't say like, look how amazing that they just say, like, it's impressive they built this building, this business. Also, they had like some racist issues, you know, like that kind of stuff. They're they're pretty upfront about that stuff. I I really like them. They're historians. Founders podcast, guy who just re- Kent Boucher (01:23:29.718) Is that an actual criticism? 'Cause that's a pretty heavy hit criticism if you're just using it using it for Nicolas Lirio (01:23:34.062) No, that was one they had from a from a founder from like the eighteen hundreds. Yeah, that they were like Yeah, we can't get away from Kent Boucher (01:23:39.362) So I just didn't want that to like linger out there. Nicolas Lirio (01:23:41.986) No, no. They met this to be like Yeah, he did a really cool business but he he had some some racist stuff going on. and so founders. All in and my first million are probably tied for third. In terms of excitement, I listen to every episode of all of those. I listen to good meat eater ones when they come out, conservation. but but a lot of times, not that I'm not bashing on that podcast, a lot of times they're less conservation focused and more peripheral conservation. Totally fine. Just not what I'm looking for if I'm gonna listen to it. I've been listening to the book series Dungeon Crawler Carl. I thought you Yeah, I did, but I just finished it. Kent Boucher (01:24:29.344) he's got more books coming out, so you you rejoiced. Nicolas Lirio (01:24:32.186) Yeah, I'd like to finish stuff. So it's just like and he comes out with a book every 12 to 16 months. So he's hilarious, hilarious. And I listened been listening to The Goal, which is about manufacturing. The guy treats his wife poorly, but I guess that's just like was just the status quo in the 60s, which really opened my eyes to like how poorly women were treated in the 60s. Like just like not like not like abusive, just like Kent Boucher (01:24:39.628) He's quick, yeah. Nicolas Lirio (01:25:01.602) He likes his demeaning and conversation. And basically the story is this guy's manufacturing plant is going to close if he doesn't figure out how to make it produce better and be more efficient. And it's a story that this mathematician who saw who figured out all this stuff about who also was a writer, he said, I'm gonna write a book and I'm gonna do it basically parable, like a 10 hour audio book parable. and so that it's been it's a great read. I cringe when he interacts with his wife, but Kent Boucher (01:25:31.756) Yeah. Yeah. Sad. Nicolas Lirio (01:25:33.582) I know, I know. It was just like I don't know. It's just like like she doesn't matter that much to him. He'll be like in the book he'll be like, It's just really important that I'm here at eleven PM. I don't understand why you don't understand that. And I'm like, dude, you're not even explaining to her. I was just like, I don't know. But that's where the world was at back then and I'm glad we've grown out of it. Holy crud. Kent Boucher (01:25:53.908) Well, even but I don't think just because a soci you know, society considered something normal, like I don't think it makes it excusable anyway, because I think each person knows when they're getting away with something they shouldn't be getting away with. You know what I mean? So it's like even though it's acceptable that everyone treats their spouse this way or their wife specifically this way the guy still knew. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Nicolas Lirio (01:26:18.446) And I I think I I think for sure that was wrong, and I'm not arguing against you. And I would put a counterpoint on the other side of it is like like you see like a dad who's n kind to his son, his dad was really rough on him. So the fact that he's kind on his son but a little harder is a step up and so applause to him. And then that the great grandfather might have really beat the heck out of that dad's dad, so but he's a step nicer than that. So it's like, hey, you're still wrong for like treating your son poorly. But you're you're step you're a step above where you where you're at and that deserves some praise. Now, I'm not saying that's where this book is at, but I think in society we like we evolve. man. those yeah that's what I'm reading and listen. I don't I I don't know. Or dude, so much Oreo fluff. Kent Boucher (01:26:58.638) Yeah. And so Kent Boucher (01:27:03.958) That's what you're consuming. Yeah. Oreo fluff. Nicolas Lirio (01:27:12.366) Dude, every time I have Oreo fluff, I'm sad within like ten minutes. Like emotionally I get not because I ate it, but physiologically. Kent Boucher (01:27:20.19) Big highs come low lows. yeah. I had some Oreo fluff with Alex recently. We stopped at this cool restaurant that actually the restaurant served Oreo Fluff is like one of the sides of my I can't pass on that. Nicolas Lirio (01:27:34.787) I I think that's said I can't eat that today. Kent Boucher (01:27:37.898) Then I did feel a little sad afterwards that you say that. okay, so favorite podcast that you have that that we have recorded since December of twenty five. Nicolas Lirio (01:27:57.666) I'm gonna put t I'm gonna say two. I'm gonna say two. There are a lot of really good ones. Kent Boucher (01:28:01.578) come on. One one. And then I'll let you say your second one after Nicolas Lirio (01:28:03.79) Yeah. Nicolas Lirio (01:28:07.466) All right, I'll go Austin Freck. He's such a great hang. He's so fun. We like d we Yeah, I know, I know. I'm excited to hang out. Kent Boucher (01:28:09.634) Number one. Kent Boucher (01:28:13.304) Such a great virtual hang. Nicolas Lirio (01:28:21.33) The second I I the lobe rangers. Which I like hesitate even saying 'cause no one can listen. We should just release the crappy audio as a bonus, like hey you Kent Boucher (01:28:32.842) You want the you want the hidden footage or Nicolas Lirio (01:28:35.326) So great. They were so awesome, so honest, so blunt. They've got no I mean, they have a horse in the race, but they have no monetary incentive behind them from anyone. So they're just out doing it on their own free will. Just incredible guys. So Kent Boucher (01:28:48.568) Yep. Very good. yeah, I think that's pretty much what we'll wrap her up. How Nicolas Lirio (01:28:56.79) We're supposed to give how to start prairie farm advice. My advice on how to Kent Boucher (01:29:00.334) I just feel so weird to put it in here. I kinda didn't want to put it in. Nicolas Lirio (01:29:03.758) All right, just to get I'll I'll say I'll say two things. I'll say I I feel for people because usually when they're starting, they're taking a big financial swing. I would I would I would say these two these three things. Start small, learn how to grow. You've got to have knowledge, whether it's you or you hire the knowledge in, which is very difficult to do because very few people know how to grow prairie. So knowledge is very important. You're gonna dedicate a decade to figuring this stuff out. If you're not w if you're not gonna dedicate a decade, forget about it. Kent Boucher (01:29:06.59) Just really wants to offer some advice, I mean. Kent Boucher (01:29:16.151) Okay. Nicolas Lirio (01:29:32.814) So start small, dedicate a dedicate to knowledge of growing prairie, dedicate a decade of learning how to sell it and where to where to sell it, who to sell it to, how to sell if you're gonna go all e commerce or if you're just gonna grow it and sell it to middlemen and get good deals. Those three things. If you figure those three things out, it will take a decade, but you you'll be Kent Boucher (01:29:51.438) Okay. things to promote right now. Nicolas Lirio (01:29:56.542) Promote. Okay, I don't know. My my cousin Alex came out with this. So we were cheering him on while he was making this video because everybody's first YouTube video sucks. And he made this epic video about him fixing up this old station wagon. And he he he put it out on YouTube, and Kent texted the group chat and said, Well, boys, we're officially not the best content creators on the team anymore. Alex is it. was so good. So if you're into cars, churched up garage on YouTube, he's got a video out, two more coming out shortly. And we would not send you there. One, if you don't like cars, don't go, because you're not gonna like it. But if you do really are enjoy fixing up old cars, Kent Boucher (01:30:36.15) I wouldn't even say if you I wouldn't even say if you you enjoy cars. If like you you're like, yeah, I'd kinda like to know more about cars. If you if you can just say that, you will thoroughly enjoy the what's interesting is his analytics for like the first hundred and some views, every viewer had watched till the end. Nicolas Lirio (01:30:48.376) He's a wild dog. Nicolas Lirio (01:30:55.306) It's like an hour and a half long. Yeah. It's a very long video. He goes in depth about how he does this. Kent Boucher (01:30:59.02) He's just a fascinating he's a fascinating guy and he's very good at what he does and it's a cool vehicle that he's working on. Nicolas Lirio (01:31:05.996) Go and view it to prove us wrong if you don't believe us. and then of course the forum. Here's why we keep hammering on the forum. Is the forum gonna make us a bunch of money right now? No. No, no, the forum's not gonna make us a bunch of money. what the forum does is I don't know if any of you guys have searched anything on AI about prairie, what you should do with prairie. It gives terrible advice and it gives changing advice because there's no set authority online because AI doesn't currently Kent Boucher (01:31:08.238) Perched up garage. Nicolas Lirio (01:31:35.712) Index like Google does. Google says who is the most authority? And it's going to show the Tallgrass Prairie Center or Pheasants Forever's website, or honestly, ours, or a couple other our competitors' websites, and like prairie moon, right? It's gonna show theirs because they're the authority. AI says where is the conversation happening? So where are people interacting? So it's literally getting prairie advice from Reddit. It would get it from really good forums on Facebook, which we participate in these forums on Facebook because we want good information. There's a Lots of people have good information on those forums, but AI can't read that. So if you hate AI, that's totally fine. People have we get analytics on the back end of our website. A lot of people come to our website based on AI recommendations. So people are searching on AI about Prairet Prairie, whether we like it or not. And our only goal, it's that's why I didn't call it Hox and Native Seeds Forum, is because I didn't want people to feel like, When they when AI shows them the forum, they're gonna go and buy Hawks and MCs. I want to pr that's why we call it the Prairie Farm Forum, is because we want the AI to read it and be like, hey, this is what the Prairie Farm says about it. People go, that seems like a very legitimate prairie place. and we people would be into sharing. I I'm just giving you inside baseball right now. That that's what's going on for anyone listening who's why do they keep promoting this forum? Because AI advice is terrible, and millions of people over the coming years are going to ask AI how to plant native prairie, and we need to be having a conversation about it on a forum if AI is going to give them good advice. That's that's the reason. That was the reason when I first came up with it. Well, I think actually originally I came up with the idea because we want my uncle was like, Well, do you connect with the people that listen to your podcast? I'm like, well, no. Like they send in emails every week, but he's like, you need to be like be able to connect. And so that was the first idea. And then I realized like, we actually have a we have a prairie systemic problem on the horizon and we want to get ahead of it. So that's what we got going on there. It does ask for an email. We don't spam you. We don't even send out a newsletter currently. Like we're not gonna spam you with that email. That is just to make sure that robots aren't going through and taking over the forum. That's all it is. But anything else? Kent Boucher (01:33:49.55) Bot accounts, yeah. Yeah. Dick spends hours arguing with bots in the comment section. Nicolas Lirio (01:33:56.494) Dude, even this weekend I was so close to responding to someone who was just being really hateful in someone else's post. And then I told myself, comment section is for losers. Comment section is for losers. Not all not everyone who comments is a loser, but if you hang out in the comment section, that's what you do for fun in the evenings? Loser behavior. Kent Boucher (01:34:19.072) Yeah, you're not gonna you're not gonna feel like a winner by the end that's Nicolas Lirio (01:34:22.222) For humanity. It's like bad for us as a whole. I've I'm so passionate about it. Kent Boucher (01:34:25.046) Yeah. you can tell. I think there is I think there is some value in the comment sections. I wouldn't say it's totally valueless. but but it's it definitely I I would not I would not be here to s to say that we are finishing in the black when it comes to on net negative versus net positive on Nicolas Lirio (01:34:46.158) I know anecdotes aren't data, but my I there is a friend of ours who comes to our coffee shop regularly. And right now in Knoxville, there's this big argument on Facebook about a bond for a new school. And it's not the only place in Iowa. You know, small communities are struggling for money. And so they're wanting to like build a new school, and there's like adamant yeses and adamant noes. And they clash in the comments. Well, my friend is an adamant yes, but she's very respectful about it and doesn't call names of Invited an adamant no to go get coffee, someone who was just being really hateful in the comments about it. And and there's some no's that are very reasonable. I'm not trying to, but you know, there's there's reasonable people that are yes and no's, and there's like adamant, unreasonable people for them, as with all things. And so she invited this person out to get coffee, came to Spire, and the person just berated her for an hour fairly loudly in front of everybody in the coffee shop. And I was like, You're just proving that the comment section's for losers. You know? This is just because when you actually did come in real person, anyway. Kent Boucher (01:35:48.31) Yeah. Well I guess th they they are offline or they are online though. So you gotta that counts for something. Nicolas Lirio (01:35:56.174) What a silver lighting. Kent Boucher (01:35:58.926) All right. Well, thank you, Nicholas, for allowing us to get a closer look at you. Yeah. Yeah. And thank you to our listeners who care that much about Nicholas's life to continue to listen. They're eating popcorn. They're like the the Michael Jackson thriller meme right now. no, thank you, Nicolas Lirio (01:36:07.618) I was shocked how vulnerable that felt. Nicolas Lirio (01:36:16.042) Just catch the name of the Kent Boucher (01:36:25.774) for that vulnerability and thank you to our listeners for tuning in and yeah go check out all those things. Check out the Hoksey and the Prairie Farm YouTube channels as well. those are growing. They're I I am just amazed at how cool the stuff is that we do around here. You know what I mean? Like it's fun to go back and yeah and look at old videos of times. Yeah, I don't know if anyone Nicolas Lirio (01:36:44.92) We're carried by this stuff which Kent Boucher (01:36:48.748) I suppose if you're like in your sixties or whatever and you like think back to when you played sports, you probably have this thought often. I can't believe I used to be able to do that. But there's times where I like see something that we fixed or accomplished or whatever. Nicolas Lirio (01:37:01.696) Jumping off the back of a truck. Wow, I can't believe I've used it. Kent Boucher (01:37:04.526) Yeah. where it's like, Man, we did that. That's that's pretty amazing. And I don't know that we could do that again. but we usually do. And and so you can go and and check that stuff out. I think you'll you'll appreciate it. But thank you so much for tuning in. Thank you for being a part of the solution on our way forward here in Prairie World. So until next time everyone. that's our what are you saying? Conservation happens one mind at a time. So
