Tommy Hexter (0:00): Hello, I'm Tommy Hexter. I'm the executive director of the Iowa Food System Coalition, the big spinach lobby, and this is the Prairie Farm Podcast.

Kent Boucher (0:11): I'm Mark Kenyon. I'm Dr. Julie Meachin. I'm Steve Hansen. I'm Jill Bebout. Chad Gravy. Laura Walter. Carol Hoxbergen, owner of Hoxie Native Seeds. And this is the Prairie Farm Podcast. This is Hal Harry, Backcountry Hunters and Anglers Podcast.

Nicolas Lirio (0:17): My name's Jeremy French.

Nicolas Lirio (0:29): Skip Sly, Iowa Whitetail, Valerie Van Coten, State Historical Society of Iowa, Dr. Matt Helmers, Iowa State University, Mike Kyle Lauberger with the Native Habitat Project.

Kent Boucher (0:37): Project. I'm Judd McCullum. I appeared out of the wilderness and this is the Prairie Farm Podcast.

Tommy Hexter (0:44): Welcome to the Curry Farm Podcast.

Nicolas Lirio (0:47): You're listening to this podcast, that's because you or someone you love really cares about conservation, water quality, or systemic changes in agriculture. And I want to tell you about a company that does all three at the same time: Iowa Cover Crop. Now, Iowa Cover Crop, we've had a long-standing relationship with them, and it has been amazing. Way before they sponsored the podcast, we have connected with them and bought a lot of cover crop seed, and they have bought a bunch of native seed from us. And let me just say they are wonderful. People. They're family-owned, community-oriented, and they run a heck of a business. So they've always taken care of us. Now they don't just serve Iowa. They send seed to Iowa and every state touching Iowa. And they don't just do cover crop. They do forage mixes, waterway mixes, any kind of small grain or food plot mixes that you could hope for. Basically, if it's not corn and beans, They've probably got you covered. I highly recommend this company if you are looking for cover crop on your land, whether you've been doing it for a long time or you're just wanting to dabble, we applaud you and we recommend you reach out to IowaCovercrop.com.

Kent Boucher (1:51): All right, Tommy. I just learned that you are originally from Virginia. And now you've been ingrained into the fabric of Iowa for some time. And I just saw yesterday. Did anyone here follow the Iowa investigator? Yeah, we're open invitation here, JT. I know we've talked about it a little bit. We need to get it hammered out. But

Tommy Hexter (2:09): JT. Yeah.

Kent Boucher (2:18): he posted something, I think Iowa Chill also posted it, that Iowa is the worst like most potty mouth state, worst worst cursing state. from your experience in Virginia and now in Iowa, is there a noticeable difference in the amount of obscenities flying around the state of Iowa as compared to Virginia?

Tommy Hexter (2:45): I mean you you guys just told me not to curse on the podcast.

Kent Boucher (2:48): Yes.

Nicolas Lirio (2:50): We just went to just PG thirteen. Ruth McCabe came in swinging and I couldn't edit that many out. So I did catch that.

Tommy Hexter (2:53): Okay, you're right.

Tommy Hexter (2:59): Shout out Ruth. and I know you have I know you have kids listening. You just you just showed me the the the letter from the kid in the background here. love all our our young prairie farm inf enthusiasts out there. That's right. you know, I think it's it's just people everywhere. I mean the northeast has gotta be the biggest thing. For potty mouth. Yeah. I would

Kent Boucher (3:10): That's right.

Kent Boucher (3:18): They ranked very low. I was surprised. I didn't I was also surprised that Wisconsin wa ranked behind Iowa. I mean you go to Wisconsin and it's very easy to get a unfriendly FU.

Nicolas Lirio (3:37): Well you need it you gotta go to diners and just like put up a microphone and hear how often you hear the you know, just some casual like

Tommy Hexter (3:44): Yeah, I wanna see their research methodology. Like what like what what

Kent Boucher (3:48): There was I think yeah, I think they based it. I'm trying to remember. They did have actual like quantifiable data. So I think it was based off of social media posts, social media comments, and where the poster and commenter was from. And I Iowa people, they're just letting it rip.

Tommy Hexter (4:12): Well, I mean it it also depends on like what what your definition of a bad word is. And I I know in Iowa that things things like California are bad words sometimes, you know. So so like what

Nicolas Lirio (4:24): That that's fair, dude. I didn't say where I was from when I moved to Knoxville for a little while. Like I didn't I wouldn't like, Yeah, we just moved from California. I'd just be like, Yeah, my wife and I just moved to town. Yeah. You know, it's a dangerous thing to say.

Kent Boucher (4:25): That is very fair.

Tommy Hexter (4:39): I didn't I wasn't trying to dig on you, I didn't even realize you were from California. No no

Nicolas Lirio (4:42): from here, on this farm, but I went to college in California. Yeah. So

Tommy Hexter (4:45): Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I mean it's there's you gotta go learn. You gotta go see what else is out there in the world and yeah, no, I I still depending on who I'm talking with, you know, I I choose whether or not I wanna tell people that I'm from Virginia or or whether I just don't I mean don't acknowledge

Kent Boucher (5:05): What's the whole Commonwealth thing? Can you explain?

Tommy Hexter (5:08): dude, I I actually love the term commonwealth. I think it's a beautiful sentiment.

Kent Boucher (5:13): I just don't know what it means.

Tommy Hexter (5:15): Well, I think it it it comes back to the same idea of

Kent Boucher (5:18): Commonwealth socialism? This man's a commie.

Tommy Hexter (5:23): I I honestly think that's kind of what it what it does go back to. Like Well excuse me, I have no actual understanding of the history of the term Commonwealth, so I'm just basing it entirely off of what my perception is. But you all may be familiar with the idea of the tragedy of the comments. Yeah. yeah. The idea that, you know, something is

Kent Boucher (5:28): Communism, all right?

Kent Boucher (5:37): Okay, that works.

Nicolas Lirio (5:45): Cries about it at the shop here all the time. How did this hammer not get back to where it's supposed to? Tragedy of the comic.

Tommy Hexter (5:52): Yeah. Yes, yeah, yeah, you know, something something that's collectively owned doesn't get taken care of, a park with ends up with trash or litter or whatnot. I mean, I I think that in some I I'd like to believe that that is not an innate human condition. That we actually can have things in common that can be well taken care of. And I think Yeah, right.

Nicolas Lirio (6:13): Does it do it really but like nobody leaves trash anywhere.

Tommy Hexter (6:17): And so I think it's more about like the leadership that is involved and the kind of patterns of society, like what are people doing? how are people treating each other in the in the environment that leads to whether you have a commonwealth or you have a tragedy? And the idea behind if I had to guess, the idea behind V calling Virginia a commonwealth is we're gonna treat this land that we share together as a wealth in abundance.

Kent Boucher (6:44): I like that. I even if your definition isn't right, I think that that should be

Nicolas Lirio (6:48): That's fantastic like if you ran for mayor of a town and ran on the like and even if you changed commonwealth to like the people's wealth, that would be a heck of a platform. I d I whoever takes that free advice, you're welcome. That's a that's a great platform.

Kent Boucher (7:03): I think it sounds way too much like communism.

Tommy Hexter (7:09): The Red Scare two point coming back. We're off to a hot start here.

Kent Boucher (7:14): We are. I like that though. I think I I that makes me I understand it better.

Nicolas Lirio (7:19): Man. So from Virginia. I what's the stigma? Why why did you have to be careful while you're having to tell people you're from Virginia?

Tommy Hexter (7:24): I don't I don't think it's I'm actually very proud to be from Virginia and I'm from a part of Virginia, central Virginia. I grew up in the Blue Ridge Mountains on a small farm there. my parents, you know, we had we just had two and a half acres. We raised vegetables, slaying hens, and cut flowers. We sold farmers market, grocery stores. full time? No. So my parents did it full time for about ten years, and I was the third kid to come around. By the time I was born, they both got jobs. Wow. But they were both working.

Nicolas Lirio (7:54): because they had employees. They had three employees now.

Tommy Hexter (7:58): Yeah, but they they both got jobs that were nine month. I mean, they were working at schools. So they could farm all summer. and so that's the primary growing season. but you know, I think it was less about where I was from, you know, when I think about not sharing people. It's just it's just that people in Iowa tend to trust people who are from Iowa more. And it's not that like if someone asks me where I'm from, I'm not gonna say I'm from Iowa. But if it doesn't come up, I'll just kinda pretend.

Kent Boucher (8:02): yeah.

Kent Boucher (8:18): Yeah.

Tommy Hexter (8:26): Yeah.

Kent Boucher (8:28): Just turns that potty mouth on and people like that guy's from Iowa.

Nicolas Lirio (8:31): Dude, I've got a I've got a story that does that exact same exact lesson. I was in Dallas, I was a valet, and I w if people were from Iowa, I would try to connect with them on it. It was a great thing to connect with people on. And one we found this lady, she her and her kids were there and she was like, my god, is she from Iowa? Like just very excited. And then later I went into the hotel, went to the bathroom. This was like a while. I can't remember if it was later that evening or the next day. I went into the bathroom when I came out of the bathroom. She went, hey, kid from Iowa, come over here. She's like, My arms are full. Can you carry down my two-year-old child on this escalator with me? I know I can trust you because you're from Iowa. So I just like carried this random lady's child down the escalator while her hands were full because

Kent Boucher (9:18): You're like that wasn't some kind of sting operation or whatever. That man's stinging my child

Nicolas Lirio (9:23): Yeah. No, then he went, you're from Iowa? You have no you do not have anything worth stealing.

Kent Boucher (9:27): Money.

Tommy Hexter (9:30): Yeah, no, I mean that's that's real though. I mean that Iowa trust, it runs so deep. I mean, th that social fabric of the state, that's the biggest thing that drew me in here. Just like how people treat each other in this state. It doesn't matter, like, you know, political divide, that doesn't even matter here. Like people are so kind and courteous to each other. And then you will continue seeing people over and over again, even who live in completely other parts of the state to you, and you just like I feel like there's a family in this state. In a way that in other places I've lived I just haven't felt. a and they're probably there, but it's really deep here and I think it's ingrained in the community. Yeah, I was so

Nicolas Lirio (10:09): So you came here, you went to Grinnell College and

Kent Boucher (10:13): Stayed here. Yeah. How can we go home?

Tommy Hexter (10:16): Dude, I'm one of the one of the few the proud who stayed in Iowa after graduating Grinnell College. they have a pro they have they have a a problem, I would say, of exporting a lot of as many Iowa universities do, th you know, the brain drain problem. yeah.

Kent Boucher (10:32): I also though get the impression that they import a lot of people. Particularly. Yeah, so people come from all over the country to go to Grinnell and then so I would I if I if I had to mathematically estimate what I'd say it's probably break even on people that that end up coming to Grinnell and leaving the state versus people that come to Grinnell and stay in the state.

Tommy Hexter (10:58): Yeah, that's that's probably true. And even international students, I think, is like close to forty percent international students. Whoa. Ecornell college.

Kent Boucher (11:05): I didn't realize that.

Nicolas Lirio (11:07): Little trivia for you, Ken. Why is Grinnell College as big and famous and as good of a school as it is? I think I told you this one.

Kent Boucher (11:17): Because this is just a random guess. I'm gonna guess that Silicon Valley in California was birthed out of the invention of a man from Grinnell, Iowa.

Nicolas Lirio (11:34): That was basically perfect. Come on.

Kent Boucher (11:35): No, no, no, no. Robert Noyce.

Tommy Hexter (11:39): Is that right?

Nicolas Lirio (11:41): But you but you forget where you put the hammer.

Kent Boucher (11:47): Well no.

Tommy Hexter (11:49): You know the story behind Bob Noyce though when he was a Grinnell college student. You ever heard heard this? Yeah.

Nicolas Lirio (11:53): Pig story? Yeah. The Tommy.

Kent Boucher (11:55): Wait, what's the big story? I don't know that one.

Tommy Hexter (11:58): Okay, I what I've heard is that when he was like a sophomore or something college campus, would have been the late forties, maybe early fifties, he he bought a whole pig and butchered it in his dorm room. like brought a live pig into his dorm room, butchered it and like had a pig roast and he almost got expelled, supposedly, but they kept him in 'cause you know

Kent Boucher (12:10): Wow.

Nicolas Lirio (12:18): I think one of his professors was like, This kid is br he's rough on the edges, but he's brilliant. Please let him stay. I will basically personally watch over him. and b Grinnell has so much money. I think because like people at the college invested in him and then he went on to I believe his company basically is now yeah. Is it IBM? I thought it was HP Hewlett Packer. I

Tommy Hexter (12:40): IBM.

Tommy Hexter (12:45): You I don't know. We might have we need a fact checker in here.

Nicolas Lirio (12:48): Yeah. no my phone's my phone's recording. But anyway, okay, so so you go to Noice N O I C E N O Y off, dude. So

Kent Boucher (12:48): Yeah, well blowing up.

Tommy Hexter (12:58): N O Y'all Also Warren Buffett though invested heavily in Grinnell College back in the late seventies. Why? I don't we were both wrong, Nicholas. Yeah.

Nicolas Lirio (13:10): And Yeah.

Kent Boucher (13:16): Nickname the mayor of Silicon Valley according to Wikipedia.

Tommy Hexter (13:19): Yeah, dude.

Nicolas Lirio (13:20): Pretty I think it's 'cause he invented the transistor.

Tommy Hexter (13:23): okay. I've always heard it's a microchip. Well

Nicolas Lirio (13:24): Well,

Kent Boucher (13:25): Airchild semiconductor and then Intel.

Tommy Hexter (13:30): Dude, how did people like make computers? Like whenever I see something pop up Okay. All right.

Kent Boucher (13:35): It was a microchip, you're right.

Nicolas Lirio (13:38): Well no, but transistors a microchip is just like billions of transistors inside of it. Now maybe he didn't invent the transistor though. Anyway, so sorry, you're saying about computers?

Tommy Hexter (13:47): No, it's it's just crazy. Like every time I see this to be four microchips. my god. Like a like a like a video on a screen. I'm like the fact that we're able to correlate something from a tiny camera and then like show it and then it gets broadcast like any of that, I I think that's alchemy. Yeah.

Nicolas Lirio (14:06): Yeah.

Kent Boucher (14:07): Yeah, how do they not just call people like that wizards? You know what I mean? No, it's just the stuff that Gandalf does. That's what a wizard is. You know what I mean? Like come on.

Tommy Hexter (14:12): Like

Nicolas Lirio (14:19): Dude, what like I do you ever imagine what the Apostle Paul would think if he was like here? You know, and we you had to explain what a computer is and then a phone and then Wi Fi and then like all the way back and then you have to explain human history and the crusades and

Kent Boucher (14:21): Sending messages through space.

Tommy Hexter (14:35): He'd be like, This is a great way to spread the gospel. Yeah. What?

Nicolas Lirio (14:38): I don't know, that's good. We did when

Kent Boucher (14:39): Yeah, that's right. Just potty mouse in Iowa, they need it. my god.

Nicolas Lirio (14:46): Okay, okay. I want to get to the fact that when you were twenty, you and was it doctor or professor John Andelson? yeah. bought Grinnell Farm to Table. Is that what it's called?

Tommy Hexter (14:59): Yeah. Ex exactly. Yeah. Why

Nicolas Lirio (15:01): Did he go in with a twenty year old on this? Like what what were you doing? And and then tell us about that endeavor of buying that. That's weird.

Tommy Hexter (15:09): Yeah. I mean, really it comes down to when I moved to Grinnell, I started working with some local vegetable farms. Grinnell Heritage Farm was actually I work closely with them. They were the largest organic vegetable farm in the state of Iowa for from twenty fourteen to twenty twenty. And then they went out of business like right before COVID started. they went out of business for we could get into that later, but basically a wholesale order failed where they had grown a bunch of sweet potatoes that got rejected by Whole Foods. and that was the straw that broke the camel's back for them. But me and my professor at the time, John Anderson, he is a professor of anthropology. We had been working on my research, which was studying how food systems work in Iowa. And particularly we were studying these things called food hubs. And for for those of you who don't know what food hubs are, basically you know what Cisco is. food hub is like Cisco for local food. It's a aggregator and distributor of products from Iowa farms. And so we had been doing research projects and interviews with

Nicolas Lirio (16:16): More interested in anthropology or food? Okay, because is is that just like anthropology of food systems was the only degree that they had that involved food or what

Tommy Hexter (16:19): food, hundred percent.

Tommy Hexter (16:28): They didn't that wasn't even a degree. There was there w anthropology is my degree. And then I just like I did all of my research on food systems.

Nicolas Lirio (16:35): okay, 'cause I saw you had a I can't rem on one of your things where you call your where you're the executive director, so or something that you're in charge of, you put you got a bachelor in anthropology of food. Okay.

Tommy Hexter (16:47): Yeah, I just made that up. Okay. I just made that up. that's

Nicolas Lirio (16:55): I invited you on this podcast because of that d No, I'm sorry, I was anywhere.

Tommy Hexter (16:58): I mean, I would say that's what I studied, but there's no that's not a formal degree that Grinnell College offers. that that is what we studied, and I studied interviewing the other food hubs in the state of Iowa, and then we also studied like what is Grinnell College dining hall, where are they procuring their food from? What is the average distance that food comes from? And how can we potentially solve some of that and get more of that produced here in our own state? And From that we realized there was an opportunity with this existing local food business in Grinnell called Grinnell Farm to Table that was started in twenty eleven on the college campus by students who wanted to buy local food year round. They and they started working with just six producers. and primarily it was like beef, eggs, honey, and grains, and then some produced seasonally, but they would place a collective order. To these six producers once a month, and then the producers would just come drop it off on campus, and then they would divvy it up amongst the students. And so it went like that for a few years. Then some lady it moved into town because those students graduated, and some woman named Angela Winburne moved into town. She she's a farmer. her family still farms south of Grinnell, near Montezuma. And then she sold it to another woman named Harriet Dickie Chasins, who was running it out of a church. And still working with about ten producers. There was maybe thirty or forty customers, and it was about a thousand dollars of food a month, is what they were selling through this marketplace. And unfortunately, Harriet got cancer when I was a student, and John and I were just customers, but we had been helping out volunteering, pack orders and stuff like that. And we decided, heck, this is an opportunity to turn this thing into a food hub. what we've been studying and increase the amount of producers that we're working with from ten to now in twenty twenty six we're working with close to seventy producers and gr exponentially grow the amount of customers that we're able to serve.

Nicolas Lirio (19:12): How did you grow your customer base?

Tommy Hexter (19:14): Primarily with product diversity. Just like and and then marketing. I mean, you know, Harriet, bless her soul, she was an older woman. She didn't have a social media savvy. and so as when I took over the business, that was kind of the first thing I went for is how do we improve our marketing. We've we've continually upgraded our brand. you know, t-shirts. We in twenty twenty three we moved out of we were working under the library for the first couple of years. We got our own storefront in Grinnell, brick and mortar, right in downtown Grinnell. we have a huge mural on it that my beautiful partner Anya painted that makes it very obvious what we do, which is sell local food. That's so cool. and Yeah, and then just yeah, gradually from there, like making more and more opportunities for people to buy food. I mean, going from once monthly to every other week, and then opening in person hours where people can just come in and shop. And now we're open three days a week. Wow. we have a pay what you can option every Saturday where people who can't afford to buy food can actually just pay what they're able to. so

Kent Boucher (20:28): Do you lose money on that?

Tommy Hexter (20:30): N no. I mean, it it always balances out because we have folks who donate way extra to to pay it forward to others who can't afford it. Wow. And the idea is that it's like a sliding scale. Like come in and buy a gallon of cream line milk from Radiance Dairy, baby. And pay it costs ten dollars and seventy five cents for us to sell that at cost or well, plus our margin. But come in and pay what you would pay for milk at Walmart. Pay f four dollars. or pay nothing. I s a a lot of people end up paying nothing. But the idea is that like a food pantry.

Kent Boucher (21:10): Just come and take free food?

Nicolas Lirio (21:13): Yeah. So do do you feel does it feel taken advantage of ever?

Tommy Hexter (21:21): I wouldn't say that. I mean, the mission of the or organization has always been to buy more food from local farmers. because my biggest thing is like

Kent Boucher (21:32): As long as inventory's moving, you're reaching

Tommy Hexter (21:34): We're happy. Yeah, because the biggest issue that people trying to diversify their farms have, in my opinion, is that they don't have places to sell it.

Nicolas Lirio (21:44): but and then the farmers are yelling from the rooftops, Hey, go here, buy the food You've got like seventy marketers who are trying very hard to make sure that you guys are able to sell it. You've got people who are passionate about it. You've got yeah, yeah, th I mean it probably creating your own ecosystem there.

Tommy Hexter (21:58): Yeah. And i if people don't pay for it, that like I mean, I'm happy that kids that otherwise would be drinking like industrial kaifo milk or getting cream lined milk from an organic Iowa farm. Like that's a beautiful thing. and

Kent Boucher (22:09): Yeah, it is, yeah. Yeah, 'cause that's one of the biggest criticisms for all this is that it's a rich person's boutique, right? Grocery boutique where if you got resource, you can be healthy. And if you don't, you can be happy being unhealthy. And but you're addressing that head on.

Tommy Hexter (22:30): Yeah, I mean we've made it the cheapest option is the most unhealthy option now, and that's a a terrible thing for most of us.

Kent Boucher (22:36): That is one hundred percent true.

Tommy Hexter (22:38): And that was yeah, that's exactly what we wanted to address is like let's make the healthiest, most beneficial option the most affordable. Mm-hmm. literally pay whatever you can for. because and again, it all comes down to that, like, I don't care how we're flipping the inventory, as long as the farmer is getting that paycheck. Yeah. Like we're paying them full price every time. Mm-hmm.

Kent Boucher (22:53): Yes.

Tommy Hexter (23:08): and that, you know, the more volume we move, the better.

Nicolas Lirio (23:10): How do you make sure that the farmer doesn't just like raise their price, you know, to the point that it doesn't make sense for you guys or your customers?

Tommy Hexter (23:19): I mean they're

Nicolas Lirio (23:20): I don't I don't think they would. I I'm not trying to paint farmers in a poor light, but you know what I mean.

Kent Boucher (23:24): Addressing all the capitalist arguments against what Tommy's doing here.

Tommy Hexter (23:28): No, that's a that's a great question. I think we we've have seen that. I mean, and I don't think farmers are doing it intentionally, but there are some things where competition has moved in and like I mean, for instance, a good amount of the produce that we get, especially in the shoulder months, which I would call like October through December, and then, you know, February through April, is coming from the driftless region of Wisconsin. we get it shipped down through the Iowa food hub, which is based out of Decora. And they

Nicolas Lirio (24:02): Are they the biggest food hub in Iowa? I think I met at PFI.

Tommy Hexter (24:06): In terms of volume and and yeah, they are.

Kent Boucher (24:10): Do they run that co op grocery there?

Tommy Hexter (24:13): No. That's the Iowa Food Cooperative in Des Moines. The Iowa Food.

Kent Boucher (24:17): There's a grocery store in decorum, like their main street. And I is it run by that?

Tommy Hexter (24:22): No, it's right next door though. And they they sell a lot of stuff too there. But they're they're actually Iowa Food Hub is just a wholesale hub. So they don't even really do much direct to consumer Really. They deliver more to grocery stores and and to like schools and hospitals. That sort of stuff.

Nicolas Lirio (24:38): How do you you make sure that Kent's brought this up many times? How do you make sure that you don't accidentally become Walmart? Like you've got great intentions, but then you pass it on to someone else. You pa and then they they're hey, look, we're just a little more business minded. We're just trying to spread the good word, you know, and stuff. And then all of a sudden you've got Walmart who's beating people down on prices. You know what I mean? Like because if they're able to do wholesale sales, which I'm very glad they are, but then you there's a there's a s there's a spectrum. You have w Walmart on the other side and you've got individual cut flowers on on one side and then like you know, you gotta try to be somewhere in the middle where the customer can actually afford stuff. How do you make sure you don't slide all the way to the Walmart side?

Tommy Hexter (25:19): I think the first thing that comes to mind is source identified. so much of what we lose in the industrial food system is that source identity because I've heard that the average food item in the United States passes through fourteen intermediaries on the way from the farm to the consumer. Wow. and that includes, you know, post harvest processing, handling, packaging, branding, rebranding, cutting, chopping. Well, everything. Crazy. And that's how you end up with brands like Eglins Best or whate whatever you buy at Walmart for eggs and and you know, w great value milk. Like there there's so many brands that are selling into that chain that ends up on a Walmart shelf. And I think as long as I mean, for for me it's like, okay, we're buying as long as I I think that it's key for this movement, for this local food movement to continue prioritizing that we know what farm the food came from. I think that is the most fundamental thing that we've lost as a culture is understanding and knowing where our food comes from. And so I I think that will prevent us from becoming like Walmart. Walmart could never tell you what farm their items come from. Yeah.

Kent Boucher (26:32): No. Yeah, I think the I think when people hear that and they don't really put enough time thinking about that idea of the fourteen intermediaries. It's imag like imagine if you were at a like a Super Bowl party and everyone was having pizza and you had a line of fourteen people and some

Nicolas Lirio (26:33): That is that is a fantastic

Kent Boucher (27:00): First person pulled the slice out of the box, handed it to them, and they passed it all the way down through fourteen people to you. Be like At some point the handling of your slice of pizza starts to starts to get to you a little bit. You know what I mean? And and I think that I think that that is an under sold, you know, like underweighted aspect to how weird our food our food chain is.

Nicolas Lirio (27:14): is liquid.

Kent Boucher (27:27): If you've ever driven past like a big food processing plant at Shift Change, I'll tell you what, that gets you thinking about it. Who's in that car? You know what I mean? It's like you see some what someone you know, they got a cold and they're rubbing their nose or whatever. It's like that is two hundred people that handle the food that I eat. I hope they're clean, you know.

Tommy Hexter (27:46): Right. The food yeah, the national security issue.

Kent Boucher (27:49): Totally at their at their level of hygiene and discipline and and everything else for that food that I'm buying from that place to to be good to eat, you know.

Nicolas Lirio (28:00): Well and I I

Kent Boucher (28:02): no knock on the people working there.

Tommy Hexter (28:04): All respect to those.

Nicolas Lirio (28:06): I've got you know, I've got neighbors who I'd be man, I'd love it if you were the person handling my food. I've also got some neighbors where I'm like, don't think I'm gonna buy food from you, you know, but that but you know, and you can pick if you actually have a source of identification. That's it. So okay, you did something else while you were in college that I understand. This still happened when you're in college. You ran for soil and water conservation district manager, commissioner, commissioner commissioner, and you ran unopposed.

Tommy Hexter (28:33): Yeah, unopposed, maybe. Best way to run for office.

Kent Boucher (28:35): Yeah.

Nicolas Lirio (28:36): What if how was the response when you got on?

Tommy Hexter (28:40): I mean it was interesting 'cause all I mean all all the other four

Nicolas Lirio (28:48): Or like from Grinnell College.

Kent Boucher (28:50): We don't grow tobacco here. He's not from Iowa.

Tommy Hexter (28:51): This guy doesn't curse enough.

Tommy Hexter (28:56): the other four guys were all all conventional farmers, all practicing conventional agriculture. And I'm yeah, like you said, I'm like a from Virginia, running a local food market, still at Grinnell College, which is known as a liberal school and and more of a a food a food guy than like a farm guy. And so Yeah. Yeah, we shouldn't have to, right? and I I think that's actually a key point too.

Kent Boucher (29:27): Pro farm or pro food. Whose side are you on here? Luke French say, what are they gonna do when they find out that Illinois doesn't grow food?

Nicolas Lirio (29:33): So yeah, what did they

Tommy Hexter (29:39): It's wild to me how many people in Iowa still think that what we grow is actual food. Yeah. I I think it's a I think it's actually still a majority of the state, honestly. which is kind of nuts. but anyway, back to what they said. I I I will say I went in with a very much a learning attitude. because the whole reason I ran was I wanted to learn more about the agricultural system in Iowa. Where I grew up, it was completely different. I mean, it was a patchwork of small diversified farms all up and down the Shenandoah Valley. you know, there's hundreds of crops being grown. And so moving here, and when I was a kid, I actually used to vacation in Iowa all the time, which is Where'd you go? My my mom loved Iowa. she

Kent Boucher (30:25): Yeah, what were you doing?

Tommy Hexter (30:33): Went to Grinnell College in the eighties and she fell in love with the state. She's from New Jersey. she passed away last year, but she she's the reason we came out here. She would my friends would all go to the Grand Canyon or the beach and and my family would load into our station wagon. We would I swear, we spent four days in a tumwa one time. my and goodness. I no no knock on a tumwa. I don't even know like how we managed though. Like I don't know I I remember hanging out with this lake and going fishing. I remember there was a motorcycle rally

Kent Boucher (31:08): I just can't I'm at I'm at a loss for work.

Nicolas Lirio (31:11): They went to the local diner and looked at all the flyers hanging up and went what is there to do the

Kent Boucher (31:15): Beautiful atomic.

Nicolas Lirio (31:18): Not Pella, not A not Taco Lake. That's cool.

Kent Boucher (31:23): Yeah, not decorum like driftless, you know.

Tommy Hexter (31:28): We did Mason City once. we did Field Our Dreams, obviously. So that's kind of

Kent Boucher (31:36): KFO's kids!

Nicolas Lirio (31:37): Hey don't sleep on clear like I like that town.

Tommy Hexter (31:40): It's like the Florida of Iowa.

Nicolas Lirio (31:43): Yeah. This is about as good as it gets.

Tommy Hexter (31:48): I've never been to the Iowa Great Lakes yet and I still gotta get up there, like Lake Ogoboji and

Kent Boucher (31:52): Cool. I've been up there a few times.

Nicolas Lirio (31:53): Do you ever hang out in Knoxville?

Tommy Hexter (31:55): No, not too much.

Kent Boucher (31:57): Forty seventh best knocks within America.

Nicolas Lirio (31:59): Well it is a great oxygen.

Kent Boucher (32:02): It's almost as good as Knoxville, Illinois.

Nicolas Lirio (32:04): anyway, okay so y you're from your mom loved Iowa. Yeah. Doing stuff in Virginia.

Tommy Hexter (32:09): Yeah, so the so the ag system here just kind of always fascinated me from the time I was like eight years old. I was like, what is all this stuff? What are these tractors? What are the sprayers? what are they growing? What is this stuff used for? how do they decide what they're gonna grow? Where do they sell it? Like these questions were running through my my head because I knew what our farm was and I knew what our neighboring farms did back home. I this what didn't translate to me. Like That is interesting. And especially Exactly. And especially the government programs, that was one of the things that I had the least understanding of. that wasn't a big deal where I grew up. I mean mo really I would say a lot of the the food system farms operate less on those government programs and more just like on marketing what products they have. Absolutely. And so being on the SWCD, the Soil and Water Conservation District, I

Kent Boucher (32:42): Paradigm.

Tommy Hexter (33:08): I wanted to learn about what those government programs were and how farmers used them, and what they were allowing them to do or not do, and what the bureaucracy was, what the red tape was, how effective was this, h how do the farmers feel about it? And I learned a crap ton in those four years of what

Nicolas Lirio (33:34): Why didn't you run again? Or maybe you did and you lost. yes, that's right. I did read that. And you were 24 at the time. Yeah. Dude, what? So founders, you ever listen to that podcast? Brother. Brother. Founders. Best podcast in the world. The the one of the main themes is like the that's where I learned about Robert Bob Noisy. but one of the main themes is like these founders have self-belief.

Tommy Hexter (33:37): I ran for State House.

Tommy Hexter (33:45): No.

Kent Boucher (33:55): Two hundred.

Nicolas Lirio (34:03): before the evidence. And I'm not saying you weren't an intelligent high school or college student, but like to go in and be what's Powshi county, like 350,000 acres of, you know, something like that. How Like w w what was going through your brain that was like I could make dis I could help make decisions and and lead, you know, agriculture on that, you know, that level. What what were you thinking then?

Tommy Hexter (34:27): Well, I mean it's definitely the you've heard of the Dunning Kruger effect, which is like what is it? Experience and confidence. So the the less experience you have, the higher your confidence is. Yeah. And then and then they say the more experience you get, the your confidence goes down until eventually you reach what they call in in the Dunning Kruger effect, they call it the Valley of Despair. Where where your confidence basically bottoms out. Which I think is honestly adequ like midlife crisis. Like for a lot of

Nicolas Lirio (35:05): So where are you at? You're not quite there the the Valley of the Sparia.

Tommy Hexter (35:08): Dude, I was s running for office. that that brought me into the valley of despair. I learned everything I didn't know. I learned

Nicolas Lirio (35:18): Probably in a very public and personal way.

Tommy Hexter (35:22): That's that's exactly how it felt like everybody was like wanting to know exactly what I knew about everything and wanting me to preach certain things and it actually got to the point where I I feel terrible about this. But I would get so annoyed and frustrated when people would ask me, How's the campaign going? Which is it sounds so simple. Like that's what you'd ask anyone who's running for office. Yeah. But it just started it's like I I just wanna be a normal guy again. Like I I don't wanna like be in charge of all this stuff and be and it's you know, I I think that that was really s how I started to feel towards the end of the election. it's not that I didn't feel prepared. I I I think that the reason I ran is because I have a genuine curiosity and a a growth mindset. In life, I'm someone who is constantly trying, not just for myself, but for our community and our state and our world to promote things that help us grow towards a better future. Mm-hmm. and I like that's like what I that's what I chew on. Like that's what I dream about at night. That's what I sit with, is is like, how are we gonna make the world better? I don't wanna leave the world the same as it is. I don't want the status quo to be what is still happening when I'm on my deathbed. I I want and I think everybody wants this, like I I want there to actually be solutions to these things that we call crises now.

Nicolas Lirio (36:57): Wanna tell you a little story about my wife and I. Several years ago, we found out that our insurance company was literally spending millions of dollars lobbying against conservation in our state and our federal level. And when we found this out, we said, And we decided right then we were gonna get a new insurance company. And that brought us to McKay Insurance. Now, if you know me, you know that I've Pretty thorough when I make some of these decisions. And I looked for through a bunch of different agencies and they seemed great. But McKay Insurance stood out because of the people that I met there. They were wonderful. One of their agents actually went through the whole rigmarole to set us up with insurance that she and the agency didn't get a cut of. They just wanted to make sure that we were insured. Whether you're needing life insurance, health insurance, car, home, and auto, reach out to McKay Insurance. They will get you. Taken care of. If you are tired of your insurance company lobbying against you, go to McKayNsagency.com.

Tommy Hexter (37:56): And I don't believe that the systems that have created the crises can be the systems that solve the crises. Like I think we need to to start thinking about those. Yeah. So in a nutshell, that's why I ran for for office. I mean, and my slogan was regenerate Iowa. Like thinking about how do we get a slogan regenerative

Kent Boucher (38:06): You gotta get out of the loop.

Nicolas Lirio (38:16): It's no the people's wealth, but it it was pretty good.

Kent Boucher (38:19): Yeah.

Tommy Hexter (38:20): Next time. Yeah. Yeah. I I a lot of people really wanted me to run again this year. I decided not to. I decided I was I had enough work on my plate and I really liked the direction that work was going. I felt like candidates are already starting to pick up on a state and national level with this food is medicine, food is health, local food stuff that I I felt like supporting that movement.

Nicolas Lirio (38:22): Would you ever run again?

Tommy Hexter (38:49): To get higher up candidates talking about it was actually more valuable this year. I I imagine I will run again at some point. Yeah. although I still feel it's still like a little bit of PTSD. It's like I don't I don't quite I'm not quite ready to say, Yeah, I'm gonna do it again. Yeah.

Nicolas Lirio (39:07): You know Austin Ferrick. So he he we we really like that guy. And he told us about the miserable evening he had when he lost, you know, and it just I'm I'm sure for anybody that has any not pride is in like they're too proud, but like any any pride or you know, any sort of competitive spirit or wants to see change, you know, it'd be an extremely painful experience the night of Did you think you were gonna lose or or win going to into the day of the election?

Tommy Hexter (39:39): I knew it didn't look good. I mean that the guy I was running against had been like close to plus twenty percent for the previous few years that he'd been elected against other people.

Nicolas Lirio (39:51): What what's that like? Like at a at a measly state level? Like do they bring in

Kent Boucher (39:56): What was the I mean, like the ne did did anybody say any negative like if you support Tommy Hexter, you're supporting a guy who believes in

Nicolas Lirio (40:06): Or do they just say he's twenty four, don't vote for it, you know?

Tommy Hexter (40:09): The funniest no, I actually think I got an overwhelming amount of support. I mean I got the closest I got the closest anyone had gotten against Representative Dean Fisher, who I ran against. And I think the way that I did that was approaching the election with my whole thing was let's do politics like gentlemen again. And I told Dean that on the the day before I announced that I was running. And because we knew each other, I I worked at the Capitol, so I went up No, actually just in my capacity with the Iowa Farmers Union. okay. I was a policy director. And I told Dean I was gonna run and he was like, you're gonna run as a Republican? He he actually thought I was a Republican, which was interesting. I said, No, I'm gonna run as a Democrat and he said, and I said, Well, I I really wanna make sure that if we do this that we are actually talking about the issues and not tearing each other down as people when we run.

Nicolas Lirio (40:40): Like a page or

Tommy Hexter (41:08): And we shook on it that day and we stuck to that the entire campaign. Wow. and I think that that's really local politics can be a lot more like that and should be a lot more like that. Yeah. we actually like I remember

Kent Boucher (41:12): Well, yeah.

Kent Boucher (41:21): But when you actually have to like spend significant time around somebody else when they're actually your neighbor. You're what it I think wasn't it Mike Tyson who said something about people have gotten way too comfortable talking smack online and not getting paying the person Yeah, getting the in person consequences for talking like that to somebody. I think that's

Nicolas Lirio (41:38): And not get punished.

Kent Boucher (41:45): That's probably what you're seeing there with local politics. The reason they stay more polite is because there's a chance you're gonna run into this guy at high V.

Tommy Hexter (41:52): Absolutely. And yeah, I mean it was like h he and his wife invited me over for tea. we s bef we settled on what questions we wanted to talk about in our debate together. Yeah. And then we gave the questions to a moderator to and he had he had Dean had never done a debate before against another candidate. Wow. And so having that opportunity

Nicolas Lirio (42:10): You think it was because you already had a relationship with him?

Tommy Hexter (42:13): Probably partially. But I think it's really just the respect. I mean, we need respect back in politics in this country. Like at every level. I hope the local level can be an example. But I I mean, I'm disappointed to see how disrespectful our Iowa governor's race has gotten this year. Yeah. Like I didn't think that was gonna happen from either of these guys. And I understand why it's happening, 'cause they think they each have these huge dark secrets on the other one, but it's like

Kent Boucher (42:38): Yeah, after hanging out with with both guys, they're fun hangs. They're like guys that outside of politics you'd be happy to be their friends.

Nicolas Lirio (42:47): And I believe that I do believe that both of them love Iowa and want what's best for Iowa. Now they s they have different visions of the future and to some degree, but they agree on

Kent Boucher (42:57): Yeah, when it starts when it starts heading that direction, I'm just like it just is a huge turn off, you know, to because it's just it's it's just poison to us. It's to me it's been proven, unfortunately, that it works, right? But it also works if I want my kids to shut up so I can get something done. It also works to give them endless ice cream and endless TV time. And my kids will shut up and I can get done what I need to get done, right? But that will ruin my kids in the end. It'll ruin my relationship with my kids in the end. So it's like when if you find s if you find if you find solutions like that, which I think is what name calling screaming at, pretending someone's got endless skeletons in their closet, like it's you're just you're okay, if if America's

Tommy Hexter (43:36): Yeah, it's like it's like a

Kent Boucher (43:55): public is so dumb that we get won over by that. You have a responsibility as trying to be a leader to not g give into that. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's like just like I have a responsibility that if I want my kids to to be quiet so I can get something done, then maybe I need to spend time with them doing something they like, burning off some of their energy or something and then be like, you know, I want you guys go read a few books while I while I fix the kitchen cabinet or whatever. Right. You know? It's you gotta to be a leader is you gotta find a a a better way. Not not just get into the position so then you can start. No, you gotta you gotta show a better way.

Tommy Hexter (44:40): Yeah, it's leading with values. I mean it's not it's like and and this is a key issue, I think. I always like to to think about the the word integrity. Mm-hmm. And for me what integrity means is when our values align with our actions. And unfortunately, I mean I always think about this with local food. You ask ten people, do they support local farmers and local food and and healthier food? ten people say yes. How many people get to act that way?

Nicolas Lirio (45:14): I love that.

Tommy Hexter (45:15): Like five percent, maybe less. And and I don't blame the individuals for that in a lot of cases. I think that society and our food system, the systems that we live in, have stripped integrity away from people. They've made it harder for us to live in alignment with our values. Yeah. And that's true in politics too. It's like, like if you ask ten people, do you think that politicians should be more respectful of each other? Ten people are gonna say yes. Yeah. And yet we've built this system with the huge money infiltration and the ads and all that stuff that just promotes this utter mudsling environment.

Kent Boucher (45:57): Yeah, it promotes fear and anger. That's what it promotes.

Nicolas Lirio (46:00): Which are heavy motivators. They get they get action out of people but at the cost of poisoning them.

Kent Boucher (46:05): Sometimes sometimes it's important to to to g to be very fearful so you can have the adrenaline rush and lift the heavy beam off of your friend, right? But you can't go around having an adrenaline dump every day at all moments of the day.

Tommy Hexter (46:22): And and our generation, like younger people, I think anyone under the age of fifty right now just turns that stuff off. Like I agree. And that's one of the benefits of having more than three news stations is that we can just tone. Mm-hmm. We can just turn we can just say, No, and I I'm not gonna listen to these attack ads. They might come up on my YouTube feed, whatever. I'm not

Kent Boucher (46:28): Yeah I

Nicolas Lirio (46:39): I I would I would argue that Iowa, like what I see on social media Pretty reasonable. Like people like genuine people who are putting stuff out on social media, I would say most of them are are fairly reasonable.

Kent Boucher (46:55): Evidently very profane, but

Nicolas Lirio (46:58): Well, you can only be good at a certain amount of things, you know what mean? And we picked cussing to be the one we're cuss I I I think that is an awesome way to

Kent Boucher (47:07): We have to respect each other. I mean, we have to live together. What it it's it's as if people who who roll revel in that stuff think that the other half of the people are gonna like vanish if their candidate wins. It's like, no, they're still your neighbor. You still gotta live with this these people. Like we we are on this planet together at the same time.

Tommy Hexter (47:28): And to just think that to be s to in my opinion, it's naive to think that the other half of the population is just flat out wrong. It's good versus bad. And that's what both sides think. It's like, dude, no, that's not it.

Kent Boucher (47:36): It's it's good versus evil, Tommy. Yeah.

Kent Boucher (47:42): Yeah, when someone starts throwing the good versus evil thing, I've just just stop. Who are you to decide?

Nicolas Lirio (47:48): Yeah.

Tommy Hexter (47:48): We all have all have values, we all have reasons, we all have deep stories. yeah. Yeah.

Nicolas Lirio (47:54): Yeah, but but yeah, it it is but it is interesting. You start reading like political posts or the comments and stuff, and a like a a lower level part of your brain kicks in into overdrive and you feel it, you feel yourself get upset, you know, in your gut. And instead of like, you know, being reasonable, I actually did a survey of my friends after the 2024 election and I wanted to see am I are my friend like is it pretty balanced? Do I have people that voted both ways? You'd actually be shocked how many of my friends wrote in on the twenty twenty four election. Yeah. But but it's like, are they are my friends like do I only listen to one kind of thing? So it's not it wasn't a view it wasn't any sort of you know, study on what my friends are like. It was a study on like, do I let people that I disagree with talk to me? Yep. You know, and I'd it's

Kent Boucher (48:46): I once had a podcast listener once told me at a trade show, he said, You guys are a part of my cabinet when it comes to agriculture and conservation. And honored. And what he was saying was he he's like, I view it like, you know, the president has his cabinet of advisors on something. And he's like, I try to have have these these what I deter you know detect or determine to be you know, not slighted one way or the other as much as possible. Of course it's impossible to find something completely unbiased, but but he for the different areas of concern that an informed citizen should be thinking about, right? he collects voices of people on those topics so he can feel like he's getting a well rounded And if you f he's and I believe you and said if I feel like one of my sources is leaning one way, I try to find one that's leaning the other way so then I can find I thought that was a really good

Nicolas Lirio (49:56): What category he puts us for leaning. We actually have a a wagon here and we call the turd box. Like a real it's big and brown. you real quick I want to hit this. You have a podcast.

Kent Boucher (50:02): You're in the turd.

Kent Boucher (50:11): It is. And it's kinda turdy.

Tommy Hexter (50:18): yeah, the well it's not mine.

Nicolas Lirio (50:20): It's the the farm farm to table.

Tommy Hexter (50:22): At the Iowa Farm Table podcast. Beth Hoffman. I think you guys know Beth.

Nicolas Lirio (50:24): Okay, who runs that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, but you do some of the interviews then.

Kent Boucher (50:29): Yeah.

Tommy Hexter (50:32): Well yeah, I just did the candidate conversations.

Nicolas Lirio (50:34): okay, okay. 'Cause those were the ones that pot yeah, Beth's were fantastic. I listened to I mean, maybe it was last summer, like three or four of we've actually recommended it here. I thought you had a like your own podcast. That's what I was like.

Tommy Hexter (50:48): I thought it was fun doing just the candidates and I honestly got a lot of inf interesting information out of all those candidates that like I'm like, I should start asking like other people these questions too.

Nicolas Lirio (50:58): Got beat up in the comments a little bit for the Zach Lane one.

Tommy Hexter (51:03): Dude, but again, that's the whole point is get people who don't necessarily agree engaging with different points of view. I don't care if they disagree and they get really mad about it. At least they engaged. Yeah. Like and I think that's that's what we need at the first level is like let's just at least start listening to

Nicolas Lirio (51:13): Yeah, that's true. At least they heard it.

Kent Boucher (51:22): Some some level of exposure to the idea.

Nicolas Lirio (51:24): Dude, you're s you're so thoughtful. I really like that your answers are very anthropological, where they're like, Well, what's actually the root cause of humans? Yeah. Well, it's a it's a food anthro anthropology degree. It's like a half degree. No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding.

Tommy Hexter (51:39): Well, I'll just say like I spent I spend most of my day and my life and my job working on very specific solutions, like how do we get this food to this place for this cause? And so like being able to like zoom out a little bit and talk about the systemic and the and the root causes and the values, like that, that I that's what that's what drives me to my work. So I appreciate having the space to do that.

Nicolas Lirio (52:00): Yeah. Yeah. What what cause I want to stay on food hubs and then w we can move off here in a second. But what causes food hubs to fail? Like there are successful ones, but many fail. eve sometimes even before they can get up and really go and what what what are the main drivers of that?

Tommy Hexter (52:15): Scale. It it's all scale. I mean, there's actually some reports out there that show that like the minimum viability of sales for a food hub to become viable is about a million dollars.

Nicolas Lirio (52:26): Okay. Eighty thousand a month. Yeah. Okay. So they they need to hit twenty thousand dollars per order per week. Yeah, per week order. Wow.

Tommy Hexter (52:35): Wow, wow. Yep. And and Iowa food hubs, I think there might be one who's hitting that right now. The rest of us are all non profits. We're all we're all skimming by on foundation support and donations and things like that, which is important. I mean, I think people respect our mission. And for Grunell Farm to Table, we just we turned entirely away we st we consider ourselves more of like a food hub let, like a piglet. yeah for a food hub. Cause we do mostly direct to consumer. and less of like the wholesale distribution.

Nicolas Lirio (53:07): So is is is the scale that's hard to achieve the sales or is the scale that's hard to achieve finding the producer?

Tommy Hexter (53:14): it's a hundred percent the sales. Okay. That we we we have unlimited potential for more supply of food in the Midwest. I think we have barely scratched the surface on what we can grow and and yeah, I mean farmers are not selling out yet for the most part of what they're growing currently. And if we can show that there's more markets, more and more producers will start to switch.

Kent Boucher (53:39): Is it just simply because people want to be financially responsible? They say, My dollar gets me two tomatoes at Iowa Food Hub and it gets me a pack of tomatoes at Ivy.

Tommy Hexter (53:54): I actually think it's more convenience and habits of shopping. I think people are just so used to shopping at the grocery store.

Kent Boucher (54:03): They also need n not only do they need tomatoes, but they need a canister of bleach white.

Tommy Hexter (54:08): Yeah, exactly.

Nicolas Lirio (54:09): Interesting enough, Aldi's coming to Knoxville and part of their stipulation was we need to be on the way to Walmart. With like we're not gonna do a deal with you, Knoxville City Council, unless you can find us a spot on the way to Walmart, because Aldi knows people will swing by Aldi on the way to Walmart, but they won't drive three miles in the opposite direction before they go to Walmart.

Kent Boucher (54:28): So how'd you vote?

Nicolas Lirio (54:36): But I've I've heard people say, like, hey, those prices are too high. Do people just get over the prices? Are like

Tommy Hexter (54:41): I mean, I I can only really speak from the Grinnell point of view, but I mean when we have a pay what you can market, it's like it's not the price. Yeah, that's fine. In Grinnell. And and we still aren't I mean, we we do about three hundred thousand in sales a year, which is like probably less than one percent of grocery sales in Grinnell a year. Maybe even less than half a percent. I should actually pull the data on that. But it's like why? I mean, this is literally a free grocery store. Ten thousand.

Nicolas Lirio (55:06): How big is Grinnell? Ten thousand.

Tommy Hexter (55:09): We have a Walmart, a High V and a Fairway in addition to an independent grocery store called McNally's. And then we're we're like the local food specialty store.

Nicolas Lirio (55:15): Interesting. Well yeah, 'cause it

Kent Boucher (55:19): Think it's just because people only have a very general sense on nutrition. Like they they I mean just the average person doesn't fully understand the importance of proper nutrition.

Tommy Hexter (55:37): That might be one thing. The other thing is I just don't think people know what is available at the store until they walk in. I will say once we have a customer, they're there every week.

Kent Boucher (55:50): Yeah, you know, there was there was this era when I was growing up where where like and you'd even see it this was after I was married, so it's fairly recent. like and maybe they still do it, I don't go to high v very often, but they had like the the healthy section, right? Yeah. They had the whole food section or whatever. And in the early days of that when I was a kid The way I at least perceived it, and I think a lot of people around me is like that's where you go if you want your food to to be healthy but taste like tree bark. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Like and yeah, you're you just like the association is, yeah, it's probably good for me, but you know, so is quitting smoking. Sure. And both those things are hard. Smoking is very cool. You should quit, but don't quit because it's cool. I just think it's cool when people smoke cigarettes.

Nicolas Lirio (56:24): Qui moi

Tommy Hexter (56:43): I I totally agree. I had to give up give up the smokes a few years ago but Really? Yeah. You smoke X4. I did in college. Yeah. I I guess yeah, and you know, whatever.

Kent Boucher (56:53): What you don't do that for? You know how much more credibility you'd have right now if you just you if you just had you know a

Tommy Hexter (57:05): Yeah, I got a pack of emergency cigs in my bedside table. I'll be honest. I haven't touched them in two years. I'm a runner. I mean trail runner.

Kent Boucher (57:11): Yeah, that's probably great.

Nicolas Lirio (57:16): That's a real runner.

Kent Boucher (57:18): you couldn't run and smoke at the same time. You can feel it in your lungs.

Tommy Hexter (57:20): Didn't w it didn't feel good.

Nicolas Lirio (57:22): Stay stay leaned into your mic when you're not.

Tommy Hexter (57:26): Yeah. Abs I I thought so.

Kent Boucher (57:28): It's good for you. You should not smoke, just for the record, but it is kinda cool.

Tommy Hexter (57:32): But but I I do I just want to hit on the nutrition point that the taste good or taste bad but is good for you. I I am a firm believer most people agree we have the best soil in the world here in Iowa. It's common sense that the best soil in the world produces the best food in the world. And I've gone to farmers markets in San Francisco, in New York City, in Atlanta, Georgia, in Austin, Texas. I've looked at the food they have there.

Kent Boucher (57:36): Yeah.

Kent Boucher (57:52): Yeah.

Tommy Hexter (58:02): It's got nothing on the quality of the beef and the dairy and the produce we're producing. And it's become I mean, it makes perfect sense. It's it's literally in the soil underneath our feet. We have the best soil in the world. Let's trust it. Let's lean into those ingredients. I I believe that Iowa should be the food capital of the United States.

Kent Boucher (58:07): Very interesting.

Kent Boucher (58:20): Absolutely.

Nicolas Lirio (58:20): Yeah, but like I well, I guess one is the w you know, what does it cost? But two, people are buying chips ahoys and ramen and you know, it's like yeah, I understand beef to beef, but like how do you tell people let's n we're not gonna do Oreos, we're gonna do homegrown eggs.

Kent Boucher (58:37): Have you ever thought about that? Like what what about that strategy? What if what if Iowa Food Hub have their grocery store and you got all that great produce from locally grown farmers, but then you got like a little hostess end cap? You know what I mean? Like you can't beat join

Tommy Hexter (58:52): yeah. Yeah, I mean I start making start making these processed products with Iowa grown ingredients. It's like an Iowa Dorito, baby.

Kent Boucher (59:04): Calm them.

Nicolas Lirio (59:06): Well th the the I feel like, you know, sugar and carbs have kept many a businesses afloat.

Kent Boucher (59:13): Yeah, I wonder how many people when they go grocery shopping. Yes, ninety percent of their grocery cart is onions, potatoes, tomatoes, ground beef. But the thing they were most excited about while they were there was the Oreos. So and so yeah, they yeah, I'm doing my responsible grocery shopping, but I go here because I know right where the Oreos are. Like I wonder if that's that's really a big motivation for shopping.

Nicolas Lirio (59:26): Warren's got him there.

Tommy Hexter (59:40): One thing that I think about with this is like I try to think about creating the food system that we want for the future. So and we actually envisioning like what does I I heard you talking with Austin about this on his episode, but what does the grocery store of the future look like? What does our landscape look like in the future? And I just wonder if you ask people what does your grocery cart look like in the future, will it include Oreos or Chips Ahoy? Or is that more in immediate reward mindset? Like if people were thinking about like in an ideal world it's like the instant gratification is a lot of that sugary c

Nicolas Lirio (1:00:23): So when they're thinking in the future, Oreos aren't even in the picture because they're only in the part of our brain that's thinking about right now. Yeah. Interesting, dude.

Tommy Hexter (1:00:31): And and like I think if we yeah, if we're trying to create the a world where like I don't think people want to be eating Oreos incessantly ten years down the road.

Nicolas Lirio (1:00:41): We need more anthropologists on this podcast. I that is a really interesting way to think about

Kent Boucher (1:00:47): it's kinda like the if you ask if you were to ask me if you could if there's one thing that you could do to improve society, I would say get rid of smartphones. But what do I got in my pocket right now, Tommy? It's there's just The instant we all know yes, we all know that it's bad for us. We all know that it'd be so much easier. Well, let's go back to smoking. For everyone who smokes cigarettes, I bet you if you said, Hey, I can make smok cigarettes no longer exist, almost everybody would be like great. That would really help me out. But they still buy their cigarettes. We're we're addicted to to these things. You know what I mean? Just like I'm addicted to my cell phone or Or addicted to ice cream sandwiches at zip in. the the the reality is we can't get over that.

Tommy Hexter (1:01:46): Yeah, and I think I think the question for us is like systems thinkers or or for the Iowa Food System Coalition's advocates for this stuff is not how do we do it overnight, but how do we what is that vision for the future that we all want? And then how do we create a bridge that takes us there in a way that's actually amenable to people's timelines? Mm-hmm. so that it's not instant, but it's it it gives people ways to opt in. So like I don't expect every grocery shopper to like stop buying Oreos tomorrow. But in a couple you know, if if they have more opportunities to start buying Iowa grown pasture raised beef tomorrow, then slowly maybe they'll start to phase out how much they're buying of the Oreos and the other stuff.

Nicolas Lirio (1:02:30): Do you I mean, but I there's like people who don't cook, don't cook. And and hundred percent. And I I like we had a conversation with Megan and I've had many conversations and and she's pretty like, hey, it's an education issue. It a lot of times it is. I think that's wishful thinking to be like, no, we'll just teach people that what their life choices aren't correct right now, and then and then they'll change. I just don't

Tommy Hexter (1:02:35): That's a big issue.

Nicolas Lirio (1:02:59): that I don't think that it's that easy for for every for a big big chunk of the people who decide they're not gonna cook, you know, and and but I do think there could be education. Hey, you could actually do it for a lot cheaper or y it could taste this good if you were willing to cook. I there is a subset that would change. What what do you do about the ones who're just like I ain't I ain't changing.

Tommy Hexter (1:03:18): Well, I want to pull in like a a different thread here 'cause it's related to this. And I but something I wanted to chat about was like the idea that we always hear when we talk about diversifying farms in Iowa is that nobody wants to work those jobs. Who who wants to like grow who wants to be working in meat processing plants or on farms growing like who's gonna be the labor force? No. And I think it's like we have this idea that like Americans don't want to work hard. And so we then we have the H two A visa system, we have, you know, all that sort of stuff. And I think it's the same thing with cooking. Like it's like we have this idea that Americans don't cook or don't want to cook. And and I I think that there is probably a large percentage of people who don't want that. But again, when it comes back to the integrity, and if you ask people, do you believe in the value of a home cooked meal? 10 out of 10 people agree. I think what's the problem is that the current system has made it so hard for people to want to cook that meal or to want to work in an agricultural profession. And we need to do things at a systemic level, like a big picture thing that make it easier for people to make those choices that align with their values. And I don't I mean, I don't know what the answer is. I think if people had if they were working less, they would probably cook more. if they had more pride in the ingredients that they were cooking, they would probably cook more. If they understood more about the health

Nicolas Lirio (1:05:01): I've been saying that we should bring a little little b a little social shame if if you have all the ability in the world to cook well and afford it and you don't, there should be a little like, you know, just a little just a little.

Kent Boucher (1:05:14): Well, so much of it is a retraining too, you know. When I when I was growing up there was a going back to like the farm labor thing, that was viewed as like, man, you really missed the boat if you ended up doing something like that. Like, how did you screw it up, man? There's like five hundred colleges out there you could have gone to. There's there's all these other white collar jobs and career paths. Why on earth? And What I have found because I did a white-collar job for eight years. I was a naturally a person much more interested in blue collar work. Now, not all blue collar work. Like I I used to blacktop. That sucks. That's a that's a miserable job. but like farm work, I always if you would have asked me when I was five years old, what do you want to do when you grow up? Be a farmer, like grandpa. You know what I mean? And and it took me a while to to get here. And I l I always think back, speaking of shame, of this picture that somebody took of me right after I graduated high school. I was out at my grandpa's farm and I was you know, it's the death of a Iowa farm, right? We were tearing down an old feed shed. And my brother in law was there with me. And I was a terrible worker. I was I was a ter because I viewed that work as like, you know, okay, fine, I'll help out. You know, this is not what I'm gonna be doing. You do not want to work outside in the you know, you have there's no air conditioning out there. That's a terrible way to end up with your life. And so my so many of us were taught that much. I have another friend who we were talking about this A year or two ago he's like, Yeah, my dad just always told me and he still believes it to this day. You do not want to have a job where you have to work outside. What could be a worse thing to teach your kid? Y you wanna be somewhere where there's plenty of plastic and artificial lighting and

Nicolas Lirio (1:07:26): You want soft bones and hurting gel?

Kent Boucher (1:07:28): Yes, that's what they want. And and I used to view it as well that and and I used to tell my brother this who I did black topping with is like I used to be like Jake, you gotta you know, that's great that you like your job and everything right now, but man, you gotta be thinking about the future. You're not gonna stay young forever if you're if you're doing this to your body every day.

Nicolas Lirio (1:07:50): Well to be fair. Breathing in Blacktop is

Kent Boucher (1:07:52): Yeah, but I mean like the I was thinking more like the heavy lifting and stuff like that. And it's like show me an office person who's in and at fifty years old who's in better hi better health than your average road construction person. Right. Not they don't exist unless they spend a lot of time away from their families. Yes, away from their families in the gym. And and a lot of money on the gym. And and it it's just And it's no shame to we need those white-collar jobs. Those people do so much for us, especially in the medical field. but we also need the blue-collar jobs. And it's not a shameful mistake if you end up working road construction. It's not a shameful mistake if you end up farming or you end up, you know, hand harvesting berries or or whatever. Like if that's what you're wired to do, by all means go that direction, you know. And I think there is thankfully there's been this like awakening, right? There's the huge higher ed collapse that's kind of going on right here. Everyone's like, shoot, my anthropology and food serv systems degree, you know. Yeah, fresh fresh out of hirings for that. the I'm glad you got that degree. And I do think that I do think, you know, even though I don't use a ton of what I did in college.

Tommy Hexter (1:09:07): What's that good for?

Nicolas Lirio (1:09:14): I'm glad you got that defense.

Kent Boucher (1:09:21): I can recognize areas of my life where it gave me, you know, sure knowledge and abilities that have certainly served me well. but s I guess it's just the the picture of success is not always what we what groupthink says it is. And I think we should whenever we start sniffing out groupthink on something, we should well I don't care what it is. We should be like, okay, this is feeling a little group thinky here. What's the other side of the coin? And that I think goes all the way back to when we were talking about disrespect disrespectful politics. They're playing on groupthink is when they is when they do that. And groupthink hems us into these areas where we're just ripe for for problems like our health our our health and food system.

Tommy Hexter (1:10:15): Just taking it back to farming particularly, I think groupthink has kind of settled that farming is not a good profession. Yeah. It's and we've seen that play out over the last a hundred and fifty years in America, going from over half of our population being engaged in agriculture to under one percent. I mean that that this is an agrarian nation, I believe. And it's yeah port it's part of the American fabric to be engaged in agriculture. And the and the fact that we've been told that lie

Kent Boucher (1:10:38): Important

Tommy Hexter (1:10:45): that farming is not a good profession has led to so many people, so many of those five year old boys you're talking about that say, I want to be a farmer, then then never getting involved and never getting into farming. I I I completely agree with you about like the need to value this work that is producing food and taking care of the land. I mean I I I don't even know what all the collars mean. I don't know white collar, blue collar. How many collars are there?

Kent Boucher (1:11:14): I don't know. I Nyx is usually pretty gray.

Nicolas Lirio (1:11:20): No no there there's at least a third one but white gold

Kent Boucher (1:11:22): Mike's actually a very good blue collar worker. People wouldn't know this about him, but like when he was pitched in helping with harvest over those last ten days, he's like a he's like an VP worker out there. You should have seen him scaffolding up this wagon yesterday. I don't know why.

Nicolas Lirio (1:11:35): I'll take it, man. I'll take it.

Tommy Hexter (1:11:39): Why you would say people wouldn't believe that? I mean look at this guy.

Kent Boucher (1:11:42): Right, okay.

Nicolas Lirio (1:11:43): Well, if you saw me the rest of the year sitting in this chair right here and not doing much else. But look, you only get yelled at in the field at twelve years old for so long before you start figuring it out.

Kent Boucher (1:11:53): Well and I want to be clear, there there's people that are that just like white collar work. Great. Do it. We need it. I I think that's something where blue collar deserves some some criticism is that blue this is the only way you want to be a real man, you gotta you know. And by the way, I have very dirty hands. This is a new rant, this is related. I have very dirty hands every day.

Tommy Hexter (1:12:22): Hell dude.

Kent Boucher (1:12:23): But but that's just so my hands my pretty clean day for yeah. And by the next day, I mean I'll have a tiny bit of dirt like around and usually it's grease from barren grease and stuff around my my fingernails and stuff, but it's mostly gone. So when you see somebody who always has like perpetually soiled hands.

Nicolas Lirio (1:12:30): Yeah.

Kent Boucher (1:12:49): They ain't washing. All right. They are not they are not washing those hands. They are not they are not bathing regularly. Okay? Yeah. They'd be like, wash your hands.

Tommy Hexter (1:13:04): I don't blame him.

Nicolas Lirio (1:13:05): Yeah. All right, wait, wait, wait, wait. Tommy, you just tell me if it's too personal, but I'll answer the question if you will. How many showers a week do you take?

Tommy Hexter (1:13:16): this has changed a lot for me over the years. you know, actually back during COVID, my family got pretty concerned about me for how little I was showering. I I was I was I was actually crazy story. I I I moved out onto a vegetable farm that the the guy who was farming there had actually burned down the house he was living in and renting.

Nicolas Lirio (1:13:33): Brother.

Tommy Hexter (1:13:46): And and then went to to prison for it 'cause he was renting it. And so I I was living out there.

Nicolas Lirio (1:13:51): he burned it down like he set it on fire. Yeah, yeah, yeah. okay. Yeah.

Tommy Hexter (1:13:55): mad respect to that guy, by the way. nah, he was not a smoker. I don't think so.

Kent Boucher (1:14:01): Encourage your life.

Tommy Hexter (1:14:09): I mean if you if you go look it up if you look up Tommy Hexter Arson, it a a news story will come up and you can find out more of the details about what happened here.

Kent Boucher (1:14:19): So your stuff was in that house?

Nicolas Lirio (1:14:20): Back to that guy.

Tommy Hexter (1:14:23): No, not my stuff. I I moved out there after, to take care of the garden and I was living in a camper

Nicolas Lirio (1:14:30): And the garden was like a small farm, like a huge garden. okay, yeah, yeah.

Tommy Hexter (1:14:34): And that was twenty twenty, right during COVID. And I I was shot at about once every three weeks then. And yeah Yeah, that was and I actually I I I hope she doesn't hear this, but I had a girlfriend back then who who encouraged that. she she she was like she loves the mosque. I don't know

Nicolas Lirio (1:14:42): Dowza brother.

Kent Boucher (1:14:55): Natural man.

Nicolas Lirio (1:14:58): This is the fucking.

Kent Boucher (1:14:59): Ha ha ha ha!

Tommy Hexter (1:15:01): The pheromones? I don't know, sorry. Is this PG thirteen still? I will happily say I my my beautiful girlfriend now, Anya, I we've been dating for two years and she very quickly got me onto a shower pretty much every day. Wow. Mentality. Which I I actually am a believer that the body does not need to shower that often, but in order to get into bed at night she requires it. So

Nicolas Lirio (1:15:27): You could sleep in separate beds. You seem not committed, honestly. No.

Tommy Hexter (1:15:30): Okay, let's hear your I wanna hear your answer.

Nicolas Lirio (1:15:33): When I was in college

Kent Boucher (1:15:35): that means the real whenever you gotta like go back to this old fact, that means the current fact you're real you gotta you gotta build into it so people will accept it.

Tommy Hexter (1:15:45): your crap.

Kent Boucher (1:15:45): You see how far I've come, you you'll you'll find out that once a month is really not

Nicolas Lirio (1:15:50): Okay, do you change towels every time you shower? heck yeah. See I I I don't change towers for weeks. I think I we have three towels. My wife uses two and I use one. And then when she changes hers, she'll change mine. But if she didn't do that, I wouldn't change I don't know, like

Kent Boucher (1:16:07): Mil mildew all over you.

Nicolas Lirio (1:16:09): No dude, you're clean. You're clean. Yeah, but it's hung up. So anyway, so when I was in college, I stopped using soap. I was like I don't Okay. So I had a loofah. Yeah. But I didn't use soap.

Kent Boucher (1:16:12): It's a wet towel just sitting there.

Kent Boucher (1:16:23): Loofahs I cannot be I cannot be convinced that a loofah is is a sanitary thing.

Nicolas Lirio (1:16:28): No, I mean I'm sure it carries bacteria. The point of a loofah is that it's scrubbed.

Tommy Hexter (1:16:32): Yeah.

Kent Boucher (1:16:33): The dirt it gets the dirty stuff off of you. Then you use the dirty thing again tomorrow.

Nicolas Lirio (1:16:36): Yeah, and then you rinse and Because it it doesn't remove the dirty stuff, it scrubs it to break it off your skin. That's the I it anyway, so I I use a loofah and fun thing, your hair stops producing oil. Like the my first week or so my hair was so oily and then after that your your your scalp literally goes like, we have enough oil, we don't need to like keep and so and so nobody knew that I wasn't using shampoo.

Kent Boucher (1:17:07): And your head smelled like cheese.

Nicolas Lirio (1:17:09): And then I got

Nicolas Lirio (1:17:14): Yeah, but like it did before too.

Kent Boucher (1:17:16): But aged cheese. Smoked a smoked gouda.

Nicolas Lirio (1:17:20): I got married and I had I I'd probably like every day, cl maybe every other day, but like probably every thirty six hours on average. But then my wife and I moved in this little yellow house that had no water or electricity for a while and we didn't yeah, so we had to go to a friend's house to shower. And that was sad because the friends knew I didn't shower anywhere else, so they knew how often I was shower.

Tommy Hexter (1:17:40): So you were like regulating based off their expectations. So you were like, I gotta get in there at least twice a week.

Nicolas Lirio (1:17:45): Yeah, I mean sometimes it was three or four times a week, sometimes it was once. You know what I mean? And but now I'm getting more if I work outside, I'm gonna go into the shower because otherwise my wife's not she's not excited. But my sweat doesn't smell. My sweat doesn't smell the sweat doesn't my nerve

Tommy Hexter (1:17:59): Woman man.

Kent Boucher (1:18:05): False. My nervous I'm here to tell you that is false.

Nicolas Lirio (1:18:11): My nervous sweat smells pretty bad. But my like if I just like sweat from being outside No.

Tommy Hexter (1:18:18): Yeah. Yeah, dude, I I I think we need to start a dude colony and just like

Kent Boucher (1:18:25): A dude colony or a a nude colony?

Tommy Hexter (1:18:29): but okay, do you do you guys talk about that on every podcast or why'd you why'd you pick me? You think I'm I don't know.

Kent Boucher (1:18:37): That's what I was wondering too. Nick was like, there's a little bit of a Freudian slip or something. I don't remember. Man. I and I never finished my thought. I was just I was saying that blue collar people who like Yeah, white who write off white collar roles, they're wrong. Yeah, we need and there are and there are absolutely people who are cut out and want are totally happy and that's what they want to do and they should do white collar.

Nicolas Lirio (1:18:42): What were we talking about? I don't I

Nicolas Lirio (1:18:52): Orion Washington.

Nicolas Lirio (1:19:06): Something interesting. So Japan's not their like minimum wage, just their natural wage, what people naturally get paid, is higher on the baseline because every position from like grocery clerk to they're well respected. Like if a CEO goes into a grocery store, it's like, thank you for adding to society. That they have like this attitude. And naturally, if people come in and they're milking the cows and you don't respect them, you're gonna be like, it's a poor person's job, 18 bucks an hour. But if you're like, thank you for doing this, you're doing hard work, you know, twenty-eight bucks, thirty-five bucks, whatever, you know, per hour. And when you respect the job, people get paid more. And I think it it creates a little bit more balanced position. But if we like CEOs who are at the top, I'm not here to hate on all of them. The reason they get paid so much are the maybe they're greedy and stuff, but it's because we pe the people who are making on the bottom half of the income, we worship them. We say that's what I want. And if we all ascribe value, that's where the value in terms of dollars flow to. So if we would just ascribe that that value to doing a wrong dairy guy, he would get more money. You know what I mean? I always cause I know he gets paid for content on Facebook. He like has his thing turned on. I always watch all the way through his videos. Cause have you seen that guy doing a wrong dairy? Legend.

Tommy Hexter (1:20:19): No.

Kent Boucher (1:20:20): Smoke cigarettes. Mm-hmm. Sometimes two at a time.

Nicolas Lirio (1:20:22): Yeah. Yeah, he's he's an absolute legend.

Kent Boucher (1:20:26): He's a burner.

Tommy Hexter (1:20:28): Beautiful. What do you call when you double fist cigarettes? Is that a wall is that a walrus?

Kent Boucher (1:20:33): Well yeah, I think it's all about positioning, you know. I mean if you had one going up and one going down, I mean now you're like some kind of monster.

Nicolas Lirio (1:20:41): Yeah, like a b a wilderness boar. All right, we should wrap up because we've got things to do. Tommy, is there anything we need to hit before you take off?

Tommy Hexter (1:20:50): Just want to shout out a few folks. Yeah. first, Radiance Dairy, always repping it. this is my favorite milk in the state of Iowa. Why? A2A2, organic, pasteurase, Jersey cows. if you have if if you're lactose intolerant, you're not lactose intolerant to this milk. low temperature pasteurized, the flavor, it's the best milk in the world. I always wear the shirt. I'd rather be drinking Radiance Dairy Milk. because no matter what I'm doing, even if it's talking with my friends Nicholas and Kent, I'd rather be drinking Radiance Dairy Milk. Literally the best milk in the world. out of Fairfield, Iowa. number two

Kent Boucher (1:21:26): It's

Nicolas Lirio (1:21:32): Do they graze on prairie? if they if they watch this we'll give you guys a couple acres of native pasture prairie if you do a little study on what it does in the milk. I'd be really curious.

Tommy Hexter (1:21:42): You should you should have them on or something. Yeah. but th they would love to talk with you about their farm management and

Kent Boucher (1:21:49): Yeah, let's make it happen.

Tommy Hexter (1:21:51): Number two, Grim Poultry Processing over in Williamsburg. new poultry processing plant opened this year. Pretty much they're

Nicolas Lirio (1:22:01): There was like only one or two in the state for a little while, right? It was like impossible to get your chickens, but your Hatala was telling us that.

Tommy Hexter (1:22:08): Yeah, now we got one in southeast Iowa here. and so yeah, they process right now it's about 300 birds a week on Mondays. I work there every Monday, and it's mostly pasture raised chickens, and it's just like such a family operation. six people working, four of them are family members, and just mad respect to that. They sell most of the chicken from Grim Poultry into the Webster in Iowa City and some other restaurants as well, but you can find it through the food hubs. yeah, need more need more poultry processing in the state still. And number three, Josh Roselle, Compass Ecological Prairie Business in Des Moines. I know he's listening to this. So giving opportunities for more young people like you guys too to to have their hand. You're I mean you're I guess you're young. Yeah, thank you. To to have their hand in conservation and prairie restoration and Again, valuing these beautiful natural spaces we can create. Yeah. We we need so much more of that. That's at the the fabric of America, just like food is. So I I'll stop there. Those are my plugs. They didn't pay me that much to

Kent Boucher (1:23:20): Yeah, yeah.

Nicolas Lirio (1:23:21): That's real. Man, well, we really, really appreciate you coming on. One more question. I got bullied for not asking it anymore. If you could change one thing about the world at the snap of a finger, what would you change?

Tommy Hexter (1:23:34): no more global anonymous supply chains. Everything is source identified. think that's it. I wanna know where it comes from. If I'm if I'm consuming it, I wanna know where it comes from. Yeah.

Kent Boucher (1:23:47): Yeah.

Nicolas Lirio (1:23:54): People are trying to follow along to what you got going on, where are they going?

Tommy Hexter (1:23:57): go follow Iowa Food System Coalition on Facebook. You can also check out Grinnell Farm to Table, Grim Poultry Processing. I try to keep my hands in a few different things. so yeah, go check Iowa Farmers Union. Shout out to to all those organizations. There's a lot of great food system advocacy policy work and and moving local food here in the state. Yeah.

Nicolas Lirio (1:24:08): I see that.

Nicolas Lirio (1:24:22): Absolutely. Well, everyone, thanks for listening. Don't forget, just like Tommy does, takes all of us 'cause conservation happens one mind at a time.

Tommy Hexter (1:24:31): So