Nicolas Lirio (00:00.6) I went to the zoo yesterday. Yeah. I you know, it was really Kent Boucher (00:02.459) we're started. Kent Boucher (00:06.274) Is this whole last conversation being recorded? Yeah. Wow. Which which zoo? Nicolas Lirio (00:11.454) Omahazoo. the big boy. The girls? Yeah, something like that. I remember thinking, that guy seems important and then I totally forgot his name. Tabitha Panis recommended a coffee shop. My wife and I went. I loved my drink. She didn't like it. It was good. Yeah. Kent Boucher (00:14.188) The Henry Dorley, right? Isn't that what it's called? Henry sometimes. Kent Boucher (00:28.686) Yeah. Way to put a Tabithon blast there. Nicolas Lirio (00:31.426) No no no No it was it was a cool little coffee shop. That downtown center, that like is really cool. Kent Boucher (00:38.498) Yeah. Where they've are you talking about the part where they've like taken an old part? We went there with Joy once and we Nicolas Lirio (00:45.454) Yeah, yeah, it was like brick brick paved roads. Kent Boucher (00:47.682) They've like really fixed it up, yeah. Nicolas Lirio (00:50.002) Yeah, that was super cool. But at the zoo, I you know, I'm conflicted between like this is so flipping cool and like kinda sad. You know, it's kinda it's kinda sad seeing a lion just laying on a rock being like, you can't do anything, you know? Yeah. Kent Boucher (01:04.462) Yeah, I I have very con conflicting thoughts about it. I think it's I think what it's probably good for is you view those animals as like ambassadors to to humans who are really good at destroying habitat and the things that live there. Yeah. And it helps them connect with these animals and say, you know what? I kinda like lions. I kinda like chimps. I kinda like yeah, you know what? I think I will, you know, be a little more thoughtful when it comes to Nicolas Lirio (01:27.95) You know? Kent Boucher (01:34.562) conservation issues and things. And so I think I think that's a purpose and especially developing that line of thinking in kids because kids love zoo. Nicolas Lirio (01:43.818) Yeah. They're so charismatic they take all the charismatic species and just put in one place. Right. I wonder if we took all the money we do for zoos in an area and just build a large like ecosystem that was w there already. Like take all the the zoos of the the southeastern technically rainforest according to how much rain they get, like Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, and like build a haven. that they could go through, you know? Like I don't know. Like Neil Smith. Not not like foliage, it's how much rain they get. Yeah. Or that's what my friend who's from Alabama. We were in the car. It was flash flooding around us and his brother is a cop is like, yeah, technically this is c we're considered rainforest because of how much rain we get. Kent Boucher (02:17.646) No. Kent Boucher (02:23.418) Kent Boucher (02:34.038) I'd have I'd have to s I'd I'd have to I'd have to see that confirmed. 'Cause we do have rainforest in the United States, just up in Pacific Northwest. yeah. Nicolas Lirio (02:42.03) Interesting. Because they get those giant like water currents that come and dump on. Kent Boucher (02:47.874) When I was on my bear hunt back in twenty twenty two, that wasn't technically I don't think I don't think it was in that region, but it was I mean it's northwest Montana, so it's on the outside edge. Nick Nick's doing some research right now. Yeah, he's gonna do some cover. I think it's a weird coastal biome or or ecosystem classification down there for for Nicolas Lirio (03:11.852) No, it's not biome, just classification of how much rain it gets. Kent Boucher (03:16.591) so he's saying we get Or not saying we're a we're a eco or we're not a rainforest ecosystem or biome. We're just a we get the same amount of rainfall as the rainforest. That's what he's saying. Nicolas Lirio (03:17.678) Strictly based on Nicolas Lirio (03:28.128) I think so, but I don't know. Like there might be classifications of like how much rain a place gets and one of might be rainforest. You know? Is rainforest a biome? I don't know. That's it's a little out of my ecosystem. Kent Boucher (03:42.158) Very far podcast here. Yeah. Definitive opinion on rainforests. When I when I was in when I was in Montana, which is a very short window time, right? One week. But it literally rained every single day for off and on. And it'd be all of a sudden be sunny for a while and then another storm. It was actually quite annoying because you'd always be pulling your rain gear on and off and sweating like a pig under that rain gear. Sounds like a rainforest to me. Sounds like everywhere they get three inches of rainforest. You know what? I think we're a rainforest year. We've had all Nicolas Lirio (04:13.774) Dude, the I don't ever know if I'm like excited about when it pours rain or not excited. Although Sunday, what did we get here? 'Cause in Knoxville we got like an inch and and almost an inch and a half and it might Kent Boucher (04:31.074) rain gauge tipped over at my house which is annoying. I think I got an inch and a half maybe. Okay. Nicolas Lirio (04:36.328) It probably was an inch and a half here. Judd said he got three inches in Illinois, just shy of three inches. But I like those rains. Not pouring rain, it just steady rain for I mean it was like five hours. Kent Boucher (04:44.972) Study. That's the best for what's growing. Nicolas Lirio (04:51.052) Man. All right. Well, we'll figure this out later. What is a rainforest? We'll look it up. We'll look it up another coffee time and actually have some answers. But we should get started. Kent Boucher (04:58.816) Yeah. What classifies? Nicolas Lirio (05:05.966) Coffee time Wednesdays with the Prairie Farm Podcast. speaker-2 (05:11.202) Hit us with Nicolas Lirio (05:19.874) At Hoxy Native Seeds, our mission is to provide native seed and education for landowners and land managers that care about their ground. So the education, we're doing that through the podcast and interviewing experts and the stuff we put out through our website. But the native seed that we provide, whether we grew it or we work with other producers that grew it, we are here to provide that for you. It's what keeps the lights on for us and it's what we love to do. Most of our seeds grown right here on our farm. HoxynativeSeeds.com. and if you need a little help with consultation, not sure what's put on your ground, we would be happy to help you with that as well. Give us a call. HoxynativeSeeds.com. Welcome back to the Prairie Farm Podcast. Coffee Time Wednesday. I'm your favorite host, Nicholas Lirio, with your favorite co-host, Ken Boucher. Co-host to the co-host, Riley Rosendahl. I heavily debated not even having a topic today because of the horrowing adventures of our last week and a half, but. Kent Boucher (06:05.708) Hey, hey, hey. Howdy howdy. Nicolas Lirio (06:17.1) We should at least touch on it. We're harvesting some stuff and and we're having a time. Kent, you wanna tell about it? Kent Boucher (06:24.364) Well, honestly, all things considered, it's been pretty mild. The so we got the first half of the field harvested with a direct cut combine, which is a new method for harvesting this species. And it went great. great yield, great yep, machine was working well. And then the rear drive on the combine. So combine can really be Nicolas Lirio (06:28.524) Yeah. Kent Boucher (06:53.314) I mean, you could break it down to all sort sorts of what's happening here classifications, but I I kind of view it as front and back. In the front you have the pickup of the product going towards the cylinder to be threshed, right? And it's gonna knock the seed off the plant. And then the back half of the combine is after it's hit the cylinder, it's all right, let's gather this seed that we knocked off the plant and then let's send it where it's supposed to go. And then all the waste let's let's evacuate that out of the Nicolas Lirio (07:26.326) I wish it was all the waste. I mean it's like ninety percent of it, but Kent Boucher (07:29.762) Yeah, there's still plenty of chaff and stuff that I Nicolas Lirio (07:32.494) I can only think of but one time ever we harvested something and it just was so good we just tested it and Kent Boucher (07:39.059) we used to be able to do that with prairie June grass. Nicolas Lirio (07:41.806) Well that's what I'm saying. That's that's the only thing I Kent Boucher (07:44.214) We did it multiple years like that. really? Yeah. And and the last few years there's been enough other stuff creeping in that we've had Yeah. I have I have Garrett out right now trying to keep that from being a problem right now at this very moment. so yeah, the the all the straw walkers and the web where it pulls the seed, the good seed on the bottom of the combine into the clean grain. auger and elevator, that all shut down and got very, very hot because it was just a shaft spinning inside of a sprocket. And yeah, I made the mistake of touching that shaft and burned my fingers. And that's when I realized this is a bigger problem than I thought I was looking at. So so big that I haven't solved it yet. I don't even know what I gotta do to solve it yet. I ran into Gaylord at an all Ollis Chalmers show on Saturday though. Nicolas Lirio (08:43.188) Where you would find games. Kent Boucher (08:44.194) Yeah, chatted with him about it. But I mean it he basically talked me down the road that I was already okay going on and Nicolas Lirio (08:46.702) What'd he say? Nicolas Lirio (08:54.936) For for context on this guy named Gaylord, he is the builder of our native cedars. Like he actually built them after Dad designed them. he was this legend of a welder at a near nearby manufacturing place, decided to retire. And for fun, over the last twenty Yeah, yeah, yeah, true, true. Welder fabricator. And for fun, over the last twenty ish years, he has built is it one quarter? Yeah, half or third scale. Kent Boucher (09:21.614) Half half or third scale. Nicolas Lirio (09:25.588) Alice Chalmers tractors with running motors and full all crop combine not full but like third scale all crop combines to pull along just to have Cause this man loves Kent Boucher (09:38.69) So in other words, those aren't parts you can go and buy. Yeah. You make them. Yeah, you manufacture all the parts. Nicolas Lirio (09:45.198) He rebuilt those trac well, I think he used like old mower engines and stuff for the actual tractors, but the every single part that you could have on there he built. Piece by piece. Kent Boucher (09:56.962) Yeah, he's he's incredibly talented. So anyways, that meant then that, well, direct cut harvest is now out of the question. We've we've also been having the stresses of rain that have just been ev almost every other day. It's it's rained significantly. Yeah. And we were losing some seed to the rain already. You could see it on the ground in the field, which is why I went ahead and just did the direct cut harvest. And Thankfully, the other half of the field which was planted at a different time and with a different method was just a tad bit behind in maturity from the field the half that I'd already harvested. And because we knew we were just kind of like screwed, we had rain coming, and you know, I was like, Well, maybe we should just go ahead and we know we lose seed with it standing. Let's just go ahead and get it down the windrow. Maybe if it'll get punched out by the rain still, but it'll stay trapped in the windrow and we can still get most of it. So Riley was kind enough to go out and swath that for me. But before that, he helped me resurrect another combine from the dead that maybe we should say pull it off of life support because Alex already helped me put in a whole new I just call it like a shaker shoe. It's like a it's the s yeah three sieves And really a screen or another sieve that goes underneath those two top sieves, adjustable sieves. And w we just pulled this combine that was on life support was missing all of that. All of it was gone. It was pulled out of the combine. And so Alex and I went and pulled one out of another parts combine, put it in there, and I put a new belt on for the serpentine on the back for all the straw walkers and clean grain and tailings. augers on the back and I thought it was gonna be good to go. But the pickup head on the front of it was not good to go. Something internal is wrong with that pickup head. So Riley and I had to we tried messing with it for a little bit, realized we were getting nowhere and it wasn't going to get better without some significant work. Honestly probably work that would require it to be removed from the combine and torn into. Yeah. And so we're like, well we know where we have one combine that has a working pickup head. Yeah. Kent Boucher (12:22.966) And it was the one that was we were using last year that is currently broken. So we stole that pickup head from that combine, slapped it on, did all this in one afternoon. I mean, we were working pretty fast and and we got it all hooked up and got Canada Anemone harvested and then just finished up this week harvesting Picnell Sedge, worked like a dream. Yeah. And Riley did an excellent job swathing and I'm also a huge fan of even though I hate using herbicide, Prowl H two O just did wonders for us this year in keeping our fields clean. Very clean. Nicolas Lirio (13:01.228) Yeah. Yeah. I we only collectively had one mental breakdown. that was good. That was a good that was a good time. That was me on Thursday at seven forty five at night. I called Kent and I said, I'm not okay. I'm not coming into work on Monday. And I worked I mean I worked well and Friday and Saturday. Kent Boucher (13:21.966) I would say those kind of problems are basically par for the course around here just because we use old equipment which is paid off and and and fully owned by us. We have no worries of right to repair. Yeah. You have the right to repair. Nicolas Lirio (13:42.286) In fact, you couldn't find someone else to repair it if you wanted to. Kent Boucher (13:47.47) You assume those rights when you operate this ancient equipment. So I I would say that's pretty well par for the course. What wasn't so much par for the course was the planting equipment nightmares that that have been upon us. And that's why Nick was here until nine o'clock. Nicolas Lirio (14:04.713) man. Well and it was like Kent Boucher (14:06.454) I think you were here super late a couple nights, weren't you? 'Cause there was problems on multiple nights. Nicolas Lirio (14:11.582) yeah. Yeah. So I mean we didn't have a podcast last week because we had that part two come out, but a tree fell on my mom's house and punched a hole in one of the bedrooms and then part one of the bathrooms. It was just so my siblings and I came over and we all like put all our stuff in tubs and all this other stuff. The power was out. There's a giant tree on the ground. We had to trying to figure that out. but the yeah, and then Judd, well what it was was last year. we were late to planting. We just had all this other stuff get going on. We just couldn't get to it. Kent Boucher (14:46.028) Because Carol was Carol normally did the planting and liked doing the planting. Nicolas Lirio (14:51.948) Yeah, he just wasn't wasn't feeling good enough. Kent Boucher (14:54.38) Right. Hate to take that away from him. Yeah. You know, when he has very few things at that point that he enjoys. Nicolas Lirio (15:00.908) Yeah. And so we were just late. We were late. And I remember that feeling like finishing the planting on like June twenty-seventh, right? And being like, Ugh, I hate, you know, this is too late. It's too close to the deadline. I don't like it. Now it rained enough last year. I'm not worried about any of that stuff. But the the risk gets greater. And so this year we were like, All right, Judd, you're doing the planting. You're gonna start this time. Well, two things happened. Judd had a close family member that had a medical issue that was just Couldn't do anything about. And so he was out for about a week and a half for that. And then it just rained. And then it would dry, just kind of barely, but then it would rain again. And so Joe has literally driven back and forth from Illinois to Iowa over and over again, like, You think it's dry enough now? You know, and and he he's we're finishing up. Actually, by the time you hear this, you're probably we're probably done with it. but we had started like two months ago, you know, and and so the rain's Kent Boucher (15:57.88) We just had a lot we had a lot to plant this year too, a lot of acres. Nicolas Lirio (16:01.57) Yeah, and a lot of places to go. And so that was good, but the planting harvest overlap is a lot, right? And so my job is not being in charge of either of those things is trying to make sure they all run smoothly and whose operation is the most important. Do we does everyone need to drop everything to help Kent today? Is everyone need to drop everything to help Judd? So you have all that stuff, and in the middle of it, Riley's just trying to get seed mixed. Riley is just doing his job. Kent Boucher (16:26.274) Yep. I'm just doing me thing. Riley was having Riley was having flashbacks when we were jacking with that combine. I was having the time of my life. I was like, man, this is like last September when we worked until nine or ten o'clock for multiple multiple nights in a row. A lot of nights Nicolas Lirio (16:46.196) One night I got home a little after midnight when we dealt with that's it. You do it because you love it, and and you take breaks. So I called Kit and I said, I'm not okay. I'm taking a break. went to the Omaha Zoo with my wife. We had a great time. But yeah, so we've done prairie spider wort, picknell sedge, canemy, halfway a third of the way with Ohio. Kent Boucher (16:48.95) Okay. Kent Boucher (17:13.078) Yeah, w one of our fields was further along than our other one this year for Ohio Spider Wart. So I already swathed that on Friday. And then prairie June grass is gonna be ready some point this week. and of course I gotta swath that other field of Ohio spider wart. I might actually wait till tomorrow. It's very, very calm today and it definitely needs some more time. Yeah. So I'll probably do that tomorrow. For swathing and then it'll be time to hook up the chopper to the seventy ten and start pitching Ohio onto wagons and and time to teach Garrett and Grant what it's like to climb those tiny little ladders on the side of a wagon with a pitchfork fork in between your teeth like a pirate climbing up the side of the I always prefer the old throw it in the wagon and then climb up. Nicolas Lirio (18:04.046) My my wife has this theory that everyone always has a certain percentage look to them that matches a pirate, right? So and she's got gold ear like gold hoop earrings and she's got like her sports bandana on. She's like, I'm at like 35% right now, you know what I mean? Or like poofy pants with like a a weird blouse vest. She's like, I'm in like sixty percent pirate look today. You know what I mean? So I feel like having a pitchfork in your mouth carries. Kent Boucher (18:29.966) It's like when you came wearing your clothes that you'd gone to the Renaissance fair in and you made fun of my shirt. Not because not because not because anything was wrong with my shirt, but it's just so I couldn't make fun of your shirt. Nicolas Lirio (18:42.127) And it worked. It worked. Kent Boucher (18:44.878) And I were working on something in the shop and the doors are wide open and Nick just pulls up and he's like the instant like holy cow, he's out of the gate fast this morning. speaker-2 (18:51.662) BADDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEBDLEB Nicolas Lirio (18:58.762) I had probably had coffee. yeah. Also, with all the rain this spring, I thought it would be interesting to note 2022 was the first year of La Niña. La Nina is supposed to be wetter. Very dry. Very, very dry in the Midwest. This is the first year. I just I literally just looked it up because I I was like, maybe I'm getting this mixed up. El Nino, it and it depends on what region you're in. The Midwest specifically, El Nino is supposed to be drier. And it's Kent Boucher (19:15.244) El Nino was the one. Nicolas Lirio (19:29.056) A very wet, you know this might be the wettest spring we've had in a really long time. Kent Boucher (19:33.58) No, last year was was more wet. Well, maybe last year's came July. No, we got tons of rain last year. Nicolas Lirio (19:35.693) What? We just got it. Okay. I could be wrong. Kent Boucher (19:43.82) Yeah, it's been pretty steady though this this spring. Nicolas Lirio (19:46.764) I just thought it was so interesting that it was like really wet and the time that it was supposed to be dry and then Kent Boucher (19:51.182) Although I would say in May we probably came close we probably started flirting April, May flirting with drought status. It got it got real dry. Nicolas Lirio (19:59.298) But it was very wet the ear like late winter, early spring here in the Midwest. It's kinda interesting. But Larry Weber, he talked about he's like, Well, Iowa, like if things keep changing how it is, the Midwest will actually get more rain Kent Boucher (20:14.446) Wait, are you talking about climate change? How dare you? Nicolas Lirio (20:20.268) Totally. you can tell by the Atlantic Kent Boucher (20:23.264) Getting triggered over a term, people. Yeah. Nicolas Lirio (20:26.478) Kent is feisty today. But so Dr. Larry Weber was like, we'll actually probably get more rain in less days, you know, so we'll get more downpours. Kind of interesting. Yep. all right. Topic today dairy farms. We don't know that much about dairy farms, and to be honest, we don't talk about them very much. But I thought this was interesting. June 2026, the federal government throws the dairy farms a little bit of a lifeline. and they give language they change language so that H two A's can use or dairy farms can use H two A's in their as their labor for close to year l round labor. The thing with H two A's is they have to be very seasonal. Kent Boucher (21:16.507) I you're you're using an acronym here. sorry. H two A. Nicolas Lirio (21:21.096) H2A basically means that you can have immigrants come in, yep, very short visa form, and there has to be a very distinct beginning of when their season starts and a very distinct end. It doesn't have to be a date, but it could be a, hey, the first ripening of a broccoli and the last, you know, last day the onions already, you know, or whatever. But it has to be very set in stone. The problem with dairy farms is that. Kent Boucher (21:26.806) Yeah, workforce. Kent Boucher (21:49.742) It's your own. Nicolas Lirio (21:50.516) All yep, exactly. Now the they changed the language to allow not year round, but I believe up to ten months and where farmers can say, Hey, you know, forage, chopping forage is a season where that could be included, or planting things could be a season where they're actually able to have more labor for most of the year. there are there are different tasks on it, but but Milking the cows every morning and every evening. That does not count. and so they can milk the cows while they're here, but that can't be the Kent Boucher (22:30.846) Still there's still two months that they're so so my guess is the way those large dairies are going to operate is they're going to stagger people in their employment. Nicolas Lirio (22:42.24) Yeah, I this just happened, June twenty twenty sixth, so I'm not sure what they're what they're thinking or what their strategy is. And again, it's not really our part of the country. We there's no dairy farms around us. We don't have Kent Boucher (22:53.942) That's entirely true. There's I go to church with a guy who runs a driver. Nicolas Lirio (22:59.682) But there's no like big milk round, you know. Kent Boucher (23:02.454) Okay, I don't know. Well they're selling somewhere. I don't yeah, I don't fully understand it. Talking with Derek and him talking about how like you can if you don't get set up for like being a big enough producer of milk, like the milk truck ain't coming, you know. You have to keep up with it. Nicolas Lirio (23:20.03) Yeah, yeah. Or or and your neighbors having milk ha like greatly decrease your cost of the truck swinging by. You know what I mean? And I mean there was a couple I think one of was there was a couple high schoolers when we were in high school that had a dairy farm twenty minutes from us and they were just a family that had a little old dairy farm and they loved it. But the but here's the thing. The projections of profit in 2026 for dairy have gone down from seven this is according to the Farm Journal, 74% to 46% profit difference. That's that's monstrous. And and their profit that they're talking about is not net profit. They're not talking about like how much they have in their bank account at the end of the year. They're talking about the difference between cost of goods and what they get paid, which is for everyone that's gross profit. That doesn't include all the admin. It doesn't include all the taxes. It's not EBITDA. and so what they're having to do, so they're getting squeezed really bad. Well, then all of a sudden, right, we've got migrant working issues, right? And a lot of the under-the-table migrant workers aren't aren't doing that anymore. and then I wanna I wanna find it. Someone did a great breakdown that I read Bolvine. Kent Boucher (24:49.942) Wait, so the the under the table migrant employment, that's just a result of the immigration crackdown that's happened in the last is that what you're Nicolas Lirio (24:59.784) Yes, yep, yep. Last last year, last spring, wasn't it twenty twenty five, basically that everything going on there, there, you know, either people aren't willing, they're going back, they're you know, something's going on where now the labor isn't isn't coming through. The the Bullvine, the Bullvine, is a dairy industry publication. And they had a bullvine. They had a really, really interesting article that said when you add up how much it costs for the immigration. Kent Boucher (25:19.982) Fine, yeah. Nicolas Lirio (25:28.962) workers they and then how much it costs to hire someone to do it. immigrant workers are $25.29 per hour. Mind you, they're only getting two-thirds, a little over two-thirds of that. everything else goes to fees, whether it's the broker that got them for you, there's all these state taxes and fees and then you have to house them. And whereas the average laborer in the United States to work on them is 26.83 What it didn't talk about in that article, which I thought was very interesting, was how hard it is to find anybody who's willing to work five to seven days a week at 3 30 in the morning, you know, for six hours or whatever that to to get your cows through. I now this wouldn't we wouldn't even be talking about this if dairy farmers set their own prices. There's obviously great cons to that. The reason this is a crisis is because their prices are kind of set in a marketplace. It's super complicated. The government's involved in the bottom half, and commodities are involved at the top, or not the baseline of what you're legally, you can't legally pay less than that for milk. and but there's a top line that's kind of set by it's not technically a commodity, but a commodity kind of commodity practices. And it is super complicated. I was like, reading all about it and I was trying to break it down simply. I couldn't. I didn't quite I didn't fully understand. But it it involves like how much processing goes into it if this milk is going to be cheese, kind of averaged out by how much of it ends up being on the shelf for milk based on average like fuel prices are involved for trucking it around. Like there's all this stuff. And that that goes into like what the price is set at. And now there is some variance in there, but for the most part it's not very much. You know, it's within a percentage point or two for most dairy farmers on on varying from this number set. By the USDA. and so it wouldn't be an issue if you could say, okay, well, we need to raise the wage to $38 an hour to get people who are willing to do this. And milk's gonna cost seven and a half bucks a gallon or, you know, eight ten bucks a gallon or whatever it's gonna be. but they can't do that. Not they can't do that unless they want to sell it all at farmers' markets, right? And who's got a dairy operation where they're excited to go to a farmer's market and sell. Nicolas Lirio (27:52.374) right after they got done milking those cows in the morning and then knowing they gotta go back home and milk those cows again and then tomorrow they got a chop forge. Like I feel for dairy farmers, I believe we should be paying double what we pay for milk because they work very, very hard. Go back and listen to our interview with Derek. But I thought this was so interesting and how the H2As actually factored into this where they're not actually that much cheaper. It's more of a headline thing like, hey, no, we we care. We want to make sure that you guys have the labor. but the truth of the matter is we don't wanna do the work for the price that the market has set it at. So we either need to stop having it or we need to pay more for it. Kent Boucher (28:32.524) Yeah, I I think if you and right now more expensive groceries is a kind of like climate change, a triggering thing to talk about. Yeah. But and I get that. You know, I have four kids and I work in the conservation industry, so I'm I'm not swimming in cash. the I think if we all asked ourselves, would you be okay with not having access to milk? Nicolas Lirio (28:48.886) Every other day they all gonna have a meal. Kent Boucher (29:02.624) And milk products. Nicolas Lirio (29:04.238) When was in college, I worked for a marketing company and it was a small marketing company. And my boss, he was a really cool guy. And I remember him taking me to lunch one day and telling me, Nicholas, the most important thing you'll do in business is name your company. I don't know if that's true or not, but you better believe I was blown away when I met the company Iowa Cover Crop. I mean, it's a brilliant name, but it's a little misleading because you might think, okay, they do cover crops, but they actually do a lot more than cover crops. Basically, if it's not corn and beans, they probably have it. You're talking about grains, alfalfas, lawn mixes, cover crop mixes, forage mixes. They do all sorts of things. In fact, they even have CRP and native mixes. I really like the people who provide those for them. If you are looking for anything that's not corn and beans and seed and you're in Iowa or a state touching Iowa, I highly, highly recommend looking into Iowa Covercrop. That's IowaCovercrop.com. and they have a new podcast. I really enjoy it. They didn't ask me to put this in the ad. I just wanted to because I've really enjoyed their podcast. Super informational. If you're looking to learn more about cover crops for your farm and how they can apply for your specific situation, you're going to want to check it out. It's called Under the Covers. Again, that's IowaCovercrop.com. Kent Boucher (30:14.707) We would all I mean, almost everybody would be No, I'm not okay with that. I mean when you start thinking I think there's a lot of people that don't just drink straight up milk. I do. I I drink a lot of milk. It does? Nicolas Lirio (30:26.892) It makes me sick. Yep. I can't I can't do I get like a gnarly headache right away and my Asian body cannot handle my Kent Boucher (30:34.552) Take a lot of ice cream sandwiches to hit that. But but ice cream, cheese, I mean so many products that I think we would if it if the choice was, yeah, I mean we just can't we can't dairy farmers can't exist anymore because the the the bottom line is not something that makes sense, then I think we would all be devastated by not having those products. So for me, I would be more than happy to pay twice as much for my cheese, my milk products, the or just like jugs of milk, you know, I'd I'd ice cream even. I'd I'd I'd double it for sure. Now there's other things that I think would be easier to replace. that maybe it is worth fighting over the margins a little bit on. But milk I don't think is one of I totally agree. And and to try and say I mean, because let's say f all a sudden beef just got so expensive. What could all of us do right here if beef got so expensive? What would probably be the simplest thing to do? No. Like bow I'd say just go go yeah yeah go like no well yeah but also like if you really wanted that red lean meat Nicolas Lirio (31:36.329) I agree. I Nicolas Lirio (31:51.982) Cattle. Nicolas Lirio (31:56.27) Pork or chicken or Kent Boucher (32:01.666) You just go hunting, right? I'm gonna be very dedicated to all of a sudden I can't I Nicholas is not going hunting. Nicolas Lirio (32:08.778) And I if I wanted to, and I'm not allowed to buy it from you. Kent Boucher (32:11.758) If you went dri if you went and joined some some group of guys that are doing a big deer drive p yeah the Nicolas Lirio (32:17.762) Really? Is it is it easy to get a deer? Like if you just go and rifle Kent Boucher (32:23.762) If you if you dedicate if you dedicate yourself to like becoming somewhat proficient at getting within a hundred yards of deer, yes. Nicolas Lirio (32:32.354) Would you if I followed your instructions, would you bet ten thousand dollars that I could get a decent shot on a deer? Any deer. Any deer that would be Okay. All right. So i I I was thinking it'd be harder than that, but I mostly hang out with Bob. Kent Boucher (32:39.694) The end of the season? Yes. Yeah. Kent Boucher (32:45.23) I think it'd be way harder to to for the average person to take on a cow into their everyday life. I mean most people live in a city. That's fair. You know what I mean? They're not it's not happening. I just thought Nicolas Lirio (32:56.236) I'd have people here at Hoxing AF Seeds take care of that cow break. Kent Boucher (32:59.438) I I just think that and so whereas for milk, I mean what what are you gonna do? Well, I guess I'll buy a cow. No, no, no, no. That that cow's gotta be lactating and you gotta you gotta keep it lactating and there's only one way. And that involves baby cows. So now you got more cows to worry about. And I just I think Nicolas Lirio (33:24.824) that section in biology class when you had to teach a kid. Kent Boucher (33:28.654) I know, I'd usually use one of my sick days. Leave it to the sub. That's that's that's a it's something that would be very, very hard to replace. Nature doesn't really provide another avenue unless you like possum milk or something, I suppose. Nicolas Lirio (33:35.49) Yeah, that's Nicolas Lirio (33:52.398) So that's just horrifying to think about. I I I wonder if I don't know. I don't know what to think about it, except like maybe we just need to pay more. And now I do think there are very large dairy companies that make a lot of margin. And we've talked about that like on Barons and stuff, the book Barons. He talks about that quite a bit. Austin Frey coming back on the podcast, by the way. really? Yeah. Yeah. It'll be a few months, but yeah, he he's excited too. We were chatting about he's coming out with a new book. But the so that's true, but the truth is those companies are huge because they produced milk for I mean, I I think there were some behind the scenes poor practices, but also they were able to produce milk for cheaper. That's how they got an advantage in the marketplace to begin with. Yeah. And so if you take out all the big players, which we talk about, there's a lot of pros to that. The con is things are gonna be way more expensive. and And so I I don't know. And I I mean after seeing Derek's operation and just hearing behind the scenes and hearing how much work him and his family, him and his dad are doing, I'm like, my good I couldn't do it. I physically wouldn't be able to do it. I I would choose bankruptcy over doing that for years and years, you know. Kent Boucher (35:08.126) And Riley, you could probably back me up on this this one, being a guy who was a livestock guy for a long time. the importance of helpful neighbors who are willing to take over tr chores for somebody like Derek so that he can go on one week of vacation a year, you know, with his family or something. I've thought about that a lot of times with just getting to you know, getting to know my grandpa better from a farming standpoint, asking him questions and stuff and realizing just how much work it was. And if your family was going to go on vacation, your brother, your neighbor did all their chores and then when they were done with all their chores, they came over and did all your chores. So they had to chore four times a day for a week. Yeah. You know what mean? Like that's that's a huge, a huge commitment. Now the the payoff was then they could go on their vacation because you were gonna chore four times a day per for a week. And but I think that's another way, not just with our dollars, but if you you know you're living out in the country a little bit or the edge of town or the burbs or something, you got you know, you got a local farmer there that you're kind of friends with, that's another great way to help out, other than just buying their products, like help. Help their operation work. Yeah. You know, and this would be a great time to pitch sharing the land as well. Yeah. You know, that that's kind of the idea is there's a lot we we all like the ideas of farms sticking around and not turning into another housing development. We like we like the idea of people who are doing something different on the land are able to make it work. sharing the land's a great way to pitch in and then get get to enjoy some, you know, hunting or fishing or Gather mushrooms or sheds or whatever that you want to do in that countryside, in that ecosystem. But I think it's just another way when you know, the we talk a lot about having our cake and eating it too, to be totally hands off and s and say, Man, I sure hope the milk doesn't dry up in my refrigerator. Yeah. Like there's it it's dollars for sure is number one. But I think, you know, trying to be an encouragement to someone like Derek and going and choring for him for a week so we can get away. Nicolas Lirio (37:31.704) Well I Kent Boucher (37:33.176) So when he hits his own his Omaha Zoo Waterloo like you hit the other night, he he just has to go, Well, I'll be back tomorrow. Yeah. speaker-2 (37:42.19) You know what mean? Nicolas Lirio (37:43.874) The Riley, sorry. Kent Boucher (37:46.154) I was just gonna say, for anybody who has never owned livestock, I would say compare it if you have like a dog now. Imagine your life before you had a dog or kids. Yeah. And then what it's like with a dog. And then imagine what it would be like if that animal's entire existence is to hide any sign of being ill or in pain because of a herd instinct. Yeah. that for ten thousand years something that looked sick would get picked off. So you're day in, day out, responsible for something like that. And it's you have a ton of money invested into it. Yeah. Yeah. So it's it's not I I wish it was as simple as everybody could just go out and, you know, get their milk cow or whatever and it's a huge investment. It's a commitment. It's a commitment. Learning to hunt would be way easier. Yeah. Derek Derek Nicolas Lirio (38:44.952) Farmers are are truly actually doing like feeding of the the Midwest around here. I mean I wonder how much of the cheese that comes from the Midwest hits its way to overseas and stuff. But Kent Boucher (38:57.026) Sounds like you just co came up with a new coffee time topic. Nicolas Lirio (39:00.422) I I'm pretty sure I rem like I had a bunch of charts last couple weeks ago when we did Does the Midwest Feed the World because I was like, I'm gonna get this right. And dairy's in there, so I could just look it up. But it was it was a smaller, much smaller percentage than the calories produced out of, you know, corn beans. Yeah. But the what's interesting is the immigration visa workers, which do all of the fruits and vegetables. You buy at big chains, they do a lot of the dairy, they do a lot of I I don't know what percentage, I think it's less, but I know of many ranches that have them there when they're you know, on these large ranches out west. and we don't want to pay for more for food. But then when these farmers like that lady I was talking about a few weeks ago on social media, who was like, Yeah, we can't find anyone to work for us, and everyone was like, 'Cause you're not charge you're not paying enough, you're not that was like their first assumption, and she never If I remember correctly, she never said how much she actually paid Kent Boucher (40:03.682) Guiltiest charge that I'm kidding. I'm kidding. Nicolas Lirio (40:08.174) You know, it's like okay, that's fine. You could double you could double and make those people deserve to get paid good money for making our food. But we don't want to pay Kent Boucher (40:14.734) Well and I would argue that I mean, unless you're just tr if you're truly an indoorsy kind of person, where like you you don't like you hate, you despise the thought of dirt under your fingernails and and a stain on your shirt, then yeah, you probably would find no no other reward other than a paycheck in helping out with farm work. But if you're somebody who's like, Yeah, I like being outside, I like yeah, I like Being on a tractor, or I like running a skid loader, or I like solving problems, I like being around animals. Th there's so much more than just a paycheck. And we understand that with well paying jobs. You're like, I don't care what they pay me, I'd never do that job. You know what I mean? And and so we we our brain does that calculus in that direction. We'll do it in the other direction too. Maybe I'm not getting a huge hourly wage, but I get to do this for a job and I think you'd find it to be quite rewarding. A lot a lot of people a lot of people in our audience I think would find it to be quite rewarding to find a way to if you can't have your own farm, work on one. Nicolas Lirio (41:21.004) Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. The the farms that I know of that are still small would love to have someone just working a little bit or helping a little bit. Yeah. Whether they're young or old or and I you know what's kinda interesting is when farms need labor, they need labor. Yeah. So there's all this conversation about like well, we talked about with Chase Chase Brown. He was like, I don't know, you know, all the people who come in and help us during harvest season, they're Seventy five years old. Yeah. You know, what's gonna happen when they're gone and Kent Boucher (41:52.568) Yeah, you know, and a really interesting story that you can follow along with on social media. I've never talked to the guy. We've talked about reaching out to him to do a podcast. We haven't done that yet. We should. Maybe somebody out there knows him. Tristan Tristan Schwartz from the Doing It Wrong Dairy page. I think it's I think it's only on Facebook. I don't think it's on Instagram. Excellent follow. And there's a guy who just wanted to be around farming, so he f found his way into it and now he runs a a dairy farm in kind of I think kind of north central Wisconsin if I'm not mistaken. But just truly doing what you're talking about, you know, the seasonal stuff. From what I know of him, you know, I've heard him in an interview on I think farm for profit he was on. And he used to run, you know, a team of like when he was in high school, he owned his own combine and would go and participate in the summer wheat harvests out west and and just kind of built up his his experience and and finances and then eventually bought his own farm and does that full time and has for quite a while. And I think he's actually the same age as me. He he looks like he's about sixty five, but but it turns out he's like, you know, thirty thirty six going on sixty five. Nicolas Lirio (43:05.902) Man. I don't know what to think about the dairy thing. I do know that, you know, the only way to make something truly cheaper without just paying someone less is technological advancement. And there's tons of good technological advancement. There's almost always, you know, there's a cons list, and sometimes that cons list is a lot longer than we don't know about for twenty years. that cons list is really long. Yeah. Kent Boucher (43:32.782) Yeah. Nicolas Lirio (43:35.574) And I I would say the majority of the time that you hear about that, it's like truly didn't know, but you know, shortcuts are always they're shortcuts. And I don't know like if we just need to be leaning into the robots, the like Lele Dairy coming in, robots, no humans needed at all. Kent Boucher (43:55.448) Basically since we can't come up with a labor, let's just invent our way out of labor kind of idea. Nicolas Lirio (44:02.988) We could come up with the labor if we doubled the price of milk. Because then you know Kent Boucher (44:06.766) But you're saying if we if we just want to stay status quo, whatever things are right now, but still have milk in our f like that you're you're just work shopping out what that Nicolas Lirio (44:13.505) Yeah. Nicolas Lirio (44:17.804) Yeah, these giant cow factories that are like that seems to be our only other option. Cause what the United States isn't going to let fair life go bankrupt when they then when they do like twenty-three percent of the milk in the United States or something like that. You know what I mean? I don't I I made that number up. But so it's like we want our milk, we're willing to run over. other people to make sure it stays the same price. And by other people, I mean the people actually milking the cows, the ones doing the hard work. Cause if we gave them a raise to thirty five bucks an hour, which is probably what they're worth to our s you know, society, then or more, then as long as it doesn't touch the price of my milk in my fridge, you know, then it's all good. And so if we want to follow that logic, I feel like our option is like robots in, you know, in the fields, which people hate the idea of, and that's fine. Are we okay with more expensive milk? Would we rather have more expensive milk or robots? I don't know. Mm-hmm. Kent Boucher (45:16.184) Probably gonna be a combination of both. I hate to break it to you. Yeah. Well well the only other thing that really is gonna reduce costs, which I mean it's fully possible we've seen energy prices increase forty percent, forty two percent. You know, if that were to go down, that will at least bring dairy farmers back to a thinner margin. Right. Or it'll give them back some of that thin margin at least. Nicolas Lirio (45:18.05) Yeah, we we get more Kent Boucher (45:44.654) 'Cause that that's the gut punch right there is is yeah, but even still I mean, yeah, they have a lot of equipment they're running with electricity and stuff in their in their operation. But as far as like fuel consumption, they're probably one of the lower consumers of fuel when it comes I mean, yeah, they got hang season and stuff like that, but but they're not, you know, doing a ton of field work where so so it my point is even if those prices come down, it probably isn't those energy costs come down, it's probably not gonna be as felt by them as it would be a a big corn and bean operation. The the two things I can think of in the dairy space are haying season obviously and then you've but your transport costs. for like the for pickups, yeah. For for whoever comes and picks up your milk. I don't know. Nicolas Lirio (46:32.844) Yeah, but one truckload of milk versus one truckload of corn is gonna be the same amount of fuel. So it I I that would be a net wash if we're comparing it to corn and beans. but it's not nothing. I mean I yeah. I don't know. You know, and if you have a bunch of robots, that's a lot of energy. Like you Yeah, so now you really need solar on each one of your giant, you know, buildings. Which isn't free. Nope. Kent Boucher (46:52.27) Yeah, yeah, electrical, yeah. Nicolas Lirio (46:59.638) No, no, I I I think human ingenuity is is is brilliant and we can solve this problem, but just can't have your cake and eat it too all the time. Kent Boucher (47:09.054) Yeah, my fear is that the average dairy farm already probably has a lot of debt just because now that is something that is very infrastructure heavy. Yeah. Absolutely. As far as like having all the holding tanks, the you gotta keep everything sanitary, you gotta equipment. yeah, have tons of different types of equipment, big sheds, you know, all these all these things that you don't have to have on a corn and bean operation. And I I think they even have more infrastructure than like a big hog operation. I would I would guess. I think that or I would guess that the average dairy farm, family sized dairy farm, probably has debt and their margins are so tight that there's not really a lot of time available to like Nicolas Lirio (47:44.248) Well the animals are bigger, you know. Kent Boucher (48:08.074) where where they can get messed with financially and not have to file bankruptcy. Yeah. you know, or significantly decrease their output because of having to pay bills. And and that's that's my fear if if you know something like this, the H two A changes in the labor shortages, like yeah, I mean, maybe robots replace those people, but that's to me seems like a ten to twelve year type of change for major significant implementation and I don't know that the average dairy farm has ten to twelve years to to give. Nicolas Lirio (48:45.922) I am vi well, that's interesting. I am very curious who's gonna make the money off of the robots because every company right now that is like forward thinking is scraping their brain, forward thinking business wise, scraping their brain on how they can make their product a subscription. The the chance that Laley introduces those robots and goes, Yeah, for a one time fee of twenty thousand dollars, you can have the robot. No. For four thousand dollars per year, you can have the robot, right? And they're and then now you've just got like another input cost and who's gonna make the margin on it. It's gonna be the robot makers, you know, and I I I'm very interested to see how aut autonomous vehicles Kent Boucher (49:30.538) you're thinking you're thinking nobody's gonna even own a car anymore. It's gonna be all be leased. Nicolas Lirio (49:34.58) I I don't absolutely did you not see the World Economic Forum? You'll own nothing and be happy. Kent Boucher (49:41.802) And the the rights to the software that run your autonomous vehicle you have to pay a subscription fee. Nicolas Lirio (49:47.41) Exactly. And I think that that is gonna be the case. Now, now, don't get me wrong, the robot companies, don't worry, we fully service it. You don't have to do anything. All you have to do is own the cattle and the land. And then there's other, you know, then the bank technically owns both of those. So what are you? A hired hand. You're a hired hand in between whose name's signed on all the paperwork and has all the liability, but and you're not making the money as we've seen on this. So Kent Boucher (50:15.47) Well, it's the story with Ag. Consolidation and becoming employee on your own, not your own land. All right, let's quick find something positive to talk about. Yeah. Nicolas Lirio (50:21.966) Yeah. Nicolas Lirio (50:26.158) I have been really encouraged. I don't know why, but I think the rain cycle hit Butterfly Milkweed perfect this year. Kent Boucher (50:33.454) Yeah, it's everywhere. It looks amazing. Unfortunately, it also hit wild parsnip really well. I've seen wild parsnip where I've never seen wild parsnip. Nicolas Lirio (50:40.494) So bad, dude. Ken's got a grown in his laundry basket. I always see that butterfly milkweed. And there's a ton of people I know that handpick prairie speech and I'll like tell I just saw a good spawn public land where you but almost always it's it's butterfly milkweed or butterfly weed and wild parts up right next to each other, or you have to walk through like a ten foot thick line of it to get to the butt. Kent Boucher (51:08.448) And the thing about butterfly we do, which is why we don't grow it anymore, is it's got such a wide range for maturing. Yeah. I mean you gotta pick it every Nicolas Lirio (51:18.518) Every day. Yeah. Yeah. For like a month. For a month. Yeah. That it's that swamp milkweed isn't as bad, but it is pretty bad. common milkweed's not as bad. Maybe not. I just think common milkweed maybe produces more seed. So getting forty percent of common milkweed is way more seed than man, forty percent of world milkweed on an acre field is like eight seeds. It's terrible. World milkweed does not produce any seed. So if you're like Why is world milkweed a thousand dollars and common milkweeds seventy or a hundred or whatever? That is why. It doesn't produce man. Well, everyone, thanks for listening. We'll talk to you again next time. Kent Boucher (51:51.534) Hard to harvest. Yeah.