Nicolas Lirio (01:07.118) All right, so first and foremost, Judd called me and said, Hey, have you listened to the most recent coffee time episode? I told him that I was there when it was recorded. And he said, I know that you were talking about like your hydration packets, but it sounds like you said you've started drinking a lot and it's causing you to have bowel movement issues. Like I've got an alcoholism problem. Riley Rozendaal (01:33.934) yeah. Kent Boucher (01:34.646) All you boys, Nicolas Lirio (01:35.438) And so judge like you should go back on the podcast and let people know that's not what you're talking about. So I wasn't talking about my alcohol is a problem. Riley Rozendaal (01:44.472) Did we take a week where we didn't talk about your alcoholism problem? Nicolas Lirio (01:47.822) You will I don't know, you know, it's just it's it's it's real thing. It's a real thing. You know, what is Wild to me is my friends who don't like alcohol that much and it is like a hundred bucks a month, you know, I mean just so expensive I just but I really wanted to talk about this lady that I on Facebook who was saying she was like she had a cattle operation and Kent Boucher (02:05.974) Yeah. Nicolas Lirio (02:18.094) And I believe had a little bit of row crop but was trying to farm well, like was trying to do well. And she's like, I cannot find anyone to work. Can't find high schoolers. I can't find adults. And she was talking about the immigrants who had been deported that were the only ones willing to do the work. all the comments, any guesses as to what the comments said, they were all unified. Kent Boucher (02:41.006) Where the person was complaining about not being able to find young people looking to do that my guess is My guess is that either youth sports or Nobody knows how to do that work and so they don't even know to apply for Nicolas Lirio (02:47.776) She was pretty young, she was probably in her 30s. Nicolas Lirio (02:59.316) That's not bad. No, everybody was like you don't pay enough you you you selfish jerk and Here's what I want to say I Didn't comment because it is just never helpful to comment on social media. It's just not helpful not helpful to humanity. I Kent Boucher (03:15.372) I'd you comment more than I do but I do think that one of the reasons we are in this That social media has become no man's land no sane man's land and we should say is because of that because we've we've allowed the loudest idiot to well be the only one to comment well Nicolas Lirio (03:38.892) but then also we're giving them an ear. So you either have to have really good people commenting if we're going to give an ear. Kent Boucher (03:45.268) I'm saying you need to have the ratio needs to be all the all the the sane people need to all be commenting regularly so that like any other place in society when a when a crazy person comes walking up to a group of people waiting for the museum to open. Nobody's like, well, let's hear what the crazy man has to say. Everyone's like, Nicolas Lirio (04:07.832) Well, that's what I'm saying. So if we we could all comment better comments, that's one I write that's not Kent Boucher (04:13.198) That's the only way out of it. I'm not saying that one guy screaming Nicolas Lirio (04:16.76) There's one other way out of it. We all quit looking at the comment section. Yeah. The problem is that is where most of the humor is. It is bad. But so in this comment section, here's here's what really bothered me when I was thinking about it. And this is why social media is not better because I left this whole interaction being bothered was I'm like, OK, you want this lady to pay people better. Maybe she's not. I don't know what she was paying him. Maybe she wasn't paying him enough. Riley Rozendaal (04:45.228) It wasn't in the video. Nicolas Lirio (04:45.934) Let's say it's 50%. No, no, let's say it's 50%. Yeah, they just assumed this lady didn't pay. Let's say it's 50 % more. She well, if everybody's wages went up 50 % more. Everything costs 50 % more. That's just how it is. And, and so but then the the same people are complaining about the grocery bill. Right? Well, it's gonna go higher. If you want good practices and you want to be paying people really well. My point is not that we shouldn't pay people well. My point is that it just doesn't work to complain because on one side or the other you're going to have and you're going to be ready to complain. so the comment section on Facebook is unless people are in the native habitat managers, a Facebook group, and you're answering questions about practices, that's actually really helpful. I really liked those pages. think people are very helpful on those. There's some backyard garden pages, unless you're answering questions of people asking for genuine information, comment section's for losers, man. It's just for losers. And every time I comment, I feel like a loser. Kent Boucher (05:55.328) Yeah, yeah, I'm there with you. I wonder if sometimes you realize like, we have these huge societal ailments, right? We all know what they are. And There are a few number of people who hold the exact keys for the lock to unlock the solution to that problem. Imagine if Meta just said, you know what, comment feature, gone. From all posts. And instead, you just had these blurbs that, misinformation could maybe spiral out of control at that point because there's Nicolas Lirio (06:32.248) Yeah. Kent Boucher (06:43.842) The comments keep people's posts, you know, to, am I gonna get abused for this? Nicolas Lirio (06:49.602) But like, what's the difference of that in a newspaper? Kent Boucher (06:52.524) Yeah, no one could come. Nicolas Lirio (06:54.187) I really like was it Quora the up vote and down vote? That's Kent Boucher (06:57.25) Yeah, yeah, yeah, that would be good. Yeah, just where you can't where you can't that's one thing I like to do in the comments is when I see somebody make a good point I try to be I try to like that comment. So yeah, there's now nobody can I mean, yeah, you can see I liked it, but we're gonna do I saw you like that guy Got a screen time problem Nicolas Lirio (07:08.137) Interesting Nicolas Lirio (07:13.582) If you saw our messaging boards for better term at 930 at night you would go that oxy team they do to chill out We're literally all laying in bed with our wives Kent Boucher (07:28.462) You're demented. Nicolas Lirio (07:34.092) just sending stuff to each other. I'll be laughing as hard as I can. And my wife's like, show me. And then I'll show her. And it's just not funny. She's like, Kent Boucher (07:44.802) You have to have good humor to know the style of real that matches the humor of your friend. I don't send all the reals I find funny. I don't send them all to the same people. Nicolas Lirio (07:56.718) No, you'd go to jail. And then I saw one reel the other day that was like, they didn't tell me when I was an adult, I'd also have homework and he sits down on the toilet and he opens and it's like 48 unread Instagram. That friends have sent him. It's becoming like a thing. like, I get around to it like every couple of weeks. Man. Cool. Riley, I know you are in the comment section a lot. Do you even have a Facebook? Riley Rozendaal (08:26.166) I have Facebook but Kent Boucher (08:27.52) I'm not his Facebook friend, I can't find him. Riley Rozendaal (08:30.241) It's it's- Kent Boucher (08:31.594) In you told me once you saw he had a Facebook. Riley Rozendaal (08:34.102) Yeah, it's delisted. I delisted my Facebook. I just use it for marketplace. Kent Boucher (08:39.726) So if I can't I hate when I have to copy a Facebook link and send it in a text message I have to do that to you every time I find a zero-turn mower Nicolas Lirio (08:41.12) I have to. Riley Rozendaal (08:51.214) Every time I find a zero turn mower or something Kent wants, copy him Facebook link and I send him a text message. Nicolas Lirio (08:57.934) And Facebook did something devious about a year ago. They made it so that you can get to Facebook from the Messenger app. So I didn't have Facebook because to be honest, I actually struggled with scrolling on Facebook the most, which is a weird thing to think about because they have the worst algorithm. But I struggle to scroll on there the most. And. Well, and so I found like. Kent Boucher (09:00.888) Need to add me on Facebook, Riley. Kent Boucher (09:18.222) it's marketplace for me, man. Nicolas Lirio (09:23.608) Two or three years ago, I found, if someone sends me a reel and messenger, could click on that reel and then be on Facebook from that reel. Well, Facebook realized that was going on a bunch. And so they just added a Facebook button on Messenger that I can just click. And so in your Messenger app, you can go to Facebook and it's a little janky. It's not like all the way there, but I might as well just download the app at this point. Like I'm just a useless. being altruistic, pretending not to be on Facebook and I'm just there all the time. Kent Boucher (09:53.9) Yeah, your brain finds those workarounds. You can bury it in some app grouping in the back, fifth page of your apps and you'll go right there by muscle memory. Nicolas Lirio (10:04.556) Dude, look, if Facebook was a physical thing and someone threw it in the dumpster or Instagram or whatever, we'd all be in the dumpster looking like at it. We would. and we justify it. We'd be like, well, just I got to check. You hear? Yeah. Yeah. And we would we would lose self-respect to the point where we're just like, get away from me. I'm looking for my face. Yeah. Kent Boucher (10:21.262) lot of value. Kent Boucher (10:30.35) Just turned into Facebook Gollum right there. Nicolas Lirio (10:33.71) It's kind of what it feels like when you're hunched over on the toilet. Kent Boucher (10:37.614) Okay, but don't you think I mean I think humans a lot of times we view addiction and I referenced this earlier You know with my whole keys to solving the problem or whatever If if we took away the things that we are so easily Captivated by and addicted to we would just find something else. You know, I mean Riley Rozendaal (10:57.9) Another shiny, the next shiny object, the next... Kent Boucher (11:00.735) It would be yeah, there'd be another thing that we would really be on into Nicolas Lirio (11:06.03) Yeah, humans, but there's this like so much screen time. We're ignoring our kids. We've been ignoring our millennia Riley Rozendaal (11:14.062) I've been an ignorant kid since the hoop and stick became popular. Kent Boucher (11:16.533) Yep, yep. Nicolas Lirio (11:18.638) We need to go back to when we gave kids a lot more attention and if you flash back to then it's because you're like get out in the field, son. Yeah, we need to get to work today. man. Well, we should get started. Welcome back to the Prairie Farm podcast. Coffee Time Wednesday. I'm your favorite host, Nicholas Lirio, with your favorite co-host, Ken Boucher and your favorite co-host to the coast, Riley Rosendahl. Riley Rozendaal (11:29.14) different time. Kent Boucher (11:42.86) Hello, hello? Riley Rozendaal (11:46.894) Howdy, howdy. Nicolas Lirio (11:48.354) The co-host today will be bringing the gospel message as he sent many messages to me about what we should be talking about today. Kent Boucher (12:00.094) Really? I did not have that on my docket to preach the gospel today. Nicolas Lirio (12:05.07) Could you like the the Bible says have your faith ready? Could you just like stand up and give it eloquently? Kent Boucher (12:13.742) God, man, Christ response. Who is God? Who are we as mankind, human beings? Who is Christ? What did he do? And what is our responsibility to respond to what Christ has done? Nicolas Lirio (12:32.184) Consider me saved, dude. That was compelling. Kent Boucher (12:35.502) If somebody does seriously, you know want to grill me over that I'd talk about it with them sometime Nicolas Lirio (12:41.976) Dude, was, I might have told this story in the pie. I was in the Philippines once and I was supposed to talk. All of your s***. Kent Boucher (12:47.766) Stories that start with being in the Philippines are not always like good for listening years. But the one you told that on Travis's podcast was horrible. Nicolas Lirio (12:59.214) That was a good, that was good. Go listen to that on the flush. Literally, the flush. Kent Boucher (13:04.839) It involves someone being coded, some innocent person being coded in diarrhea. Nicolas Lirio (13:13.186) was in Malaysia was in the Philippines so Kent Boucher (13:18.22) Mix it right up. Kent Boucher (13:22.478) My goodness, this isn't the Philippines or it would actually suck. Nicolas Lirio (13:27.154) The other point they make our T-shirts as I'm from there or I am supposed to say that I guess the dogs in the Philippines and I was supposed to talk supposed to give like a 20 minute talk at this church and then the lady who I was with who was kind of in charge the morning of was like hey could you you kind of stretch it like 35 minutes. Yeah, you know, I could add a couple more stories or I don't know, like jokes at the beginning. You know, I don't know. Yeah, I could do that. And I the worship is ending and I'm about to stand up to go to the front of the room to give my now 20 minute stretch to 35 minute. And the lady grabbed me by the arm and she went, hey, could you stretch to an hour and a half? Could you could you be up there for an hour and a half? I think I told her, like, I will do my best to come on stage. And I did those poor Filipino people I rambled for an hour and a half. Kent Boucher (14:25.297) for Riley Rozendaal (14:25.666) Feature length movie. Nicolas Lirio (14:27.213) Yeah Kent Boucher (14:27.758) We had to teach that lady about quality, not quantity. Riley Rozendaal (14:30.284) Nicolas Lirio (14:31.304) And I remember thinking okay, so I guess this was just more alright Kent Boucher (14:33.55) Thank I'm going to be honest, I go to church regularly. Who wants church to be longer? Nobody. There is nobody who honestly wants church to go longer. Nobody does. Nicolas Lirio (14:40.789) No! Nicolas Lirio (14:48.302) I do whatever we well in college. We had like four hour services and then I moved back There's a deep and genuine love can you understand And and and I came back to Iowa it was like an hour 15 minutes and it's great and I love it and sometimes I'm like and My wife and I always the last people to leave the building our kids are gonna hate us. You know with the just want to go home and eat Kent Boucher (14:54.712) Working his way to heaven. Goddamnit. Kent Boucher (15:14.444) Yeah. Riley Rozendaal (15:16.364) You're the type of person who has those conversations where the kid looks and just wants to escape. You those conversations you have with people with kids and they're just looking at the wall, waiting for it to end. You're talking about your dry cleaning from last week. Kent Boucher (15:31.694) Yeah, when you went when you were a little church boy Riley, how often did you want church to be longer? Riley Rozendaal (15:38.208) If you can save somebody's soul in 20 minutes and you offer them an hour and a half, you're gonna be hard pressed to find somebody who's gonna say, yeah, you know what, extra hour and 10 minutes, like sign up for that. Nicolas Lirio (15:42.796) Ha ha ha ha! Nicolas Lirio (15:50.05) The pastor of Kent Boucher (15:51.982) What gets you looking at the clock? At church? Yeah. Nicolas Lirio (15:57.058) You know, this is terrible. Membership Sundays. No bueno for the soul. Kent Boucher (16:02.719) So the topic gets you looking at the if it's if it's a if it's a boring Nicolas Lirio (16:06.666) No, no, the sermon I really I engage in. I just like them and membership is is not when people are like pronouncing I've knew to faith. That's like exciting to me. It's when people go, well, I was at a different church, but now I go to this church. I'm a member of this church and they give their little spiel about why they're member of this church. And I'm like, you know, Kent Boucher (16:10.978) I want some membership Sunday. Kent Boucher (16:28.942) And Nick's like, you're, you are chronically unhappy. You are chronically hard to please. Nicolas Lirio (16:38.638) It's just like long and it's like and I get it the I think formalities matter I do but it's long Kent Boucher (16:50.7) Yeah, for me, it's if I get sleepy. Because when I get sleepy, as you know, there's no stopping these eyes from closing. Nicolas Lirio (16:58.59) Does your pastor have a deep voice? Kent Boucher (17:01.27) No, I don't. I honestly I don't really get sleepy at with my current pastor. But other pastors that I've had absolutely. Nicolas Lirio (17:12.205) We were in Illinois Kent Judd and I and we were like, okay. Well, we're gonna head back to Iowa We should listen to a podcast and so what we try to Dan Carlin And we were tired. yeah. It's that's Dan Carlin I knew that Holy man, I got like 12 Kent Boucher (17:23.202) Yeah, it is a history podcast. Riley Rozendaal (17:26.637) Carlin's hardcore history. Yeah, I've listened to him. Kent Boucher (17:31.726) I think we all just were like, yeah, this ain't good. Nicolas Lirio (17:36.462) And Riley was just frothed at the mouth. Riley Rozendaal (17:41.506) Those are good podcasts four and a half hours buckle up kids It's Nicolas Lirio (17:47.982) You Kent Boucher (17:50.67) You know what we do sometimes when we're all together we think we ask what do you think Riley's doing right now if it's after work hours I always predict I always picture you in a well like one lamp on in the room kind of the Scrooge McDuff thing right? Yeah, so mostly dark room And I picture you sitting at a desktop computer playing flight simula Riley Rozendaal (18:14.658) Well, you know what, it's funny you say that because my wife and I moved to this house after we got married and we lived there for about five years and there was a lady from, she lived around the area but then moved away and she drove by our house and she asked my mom where we lived and my mom told her and she's like, I thought that house was abandoned. Every time I drive by there's no lights on and all the shades are shut. Nicolas Lirio (18:43.054) I was describing to one of my friends recently and every detail I added their eyes got like more narrow like what? Riley Rozendaal (18:51.755) He picked Kent Boucher (18:52.27) Jesus, Bill! Nicolas Lirio (18:53.752) It was like so you start off like he grew up as a farm kid Yeah, I don't think he liked farming that much when he was a kid But but then he started, you know, he started ranching and and and he loves video games and very organized likes to sit down and do paperwork but also really likes anime Kent Boucher (19:13.478) I think I broke through with Riley on anime. I said I said enough of those Anna anime people reels He canceled his subscription Riley Rozendaal (19:21.236) It broke me. Nicolas Lirio (19:23.982) No, he goes in and out. It's just, he's just cheap enough that if there's no shows on the service, Oh man, we should get started. You should talk about what you Kent Boucher (19:29.09) We all have to grow up at some time. Kent Boucher (19:36.666) Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep. Yep. So I'm gonna Riley and I each have a topic. Mm-hmm Some interesting news here lately It's another day that ends in day interesting news every day really but there's been so much pertaining to The public land side of conservation Over basically since the Trump administration entered office, right? And I've said it before, the track record so far, and to be honest with you going into it, I was very afraid of this, especially when I heard that Doug Burgum would be the Secretary of the Interior, because one of his, he actually ran for president early on for the 2024 election. And his points that he was running on was we need to open up more resource extraction, essentially. And he's from North Dakota, if I remember correctly, which is a big resource extraction state with a lot of public land. And so that was one of my biggest fears. And it has proven to be a legitimate fear. And so I do not trust anything to do with conservation or environmental health. We've seen the EPA drastically pulled back. We've seen pesticides that were previously regulated out of use, put back into use. We've seen the boundary water mining deal that was basically halted for 20 years be opened up now to Kent Boucher (21:37.166) at least from the federal side, I believe there is some hope that Minnesota as a state can, you know, mitigate some of what they're able to, or you know, block some of what they're able to do with that. So we've seen all these things, right? There's been some rocks thrown at the Endangered Species Act. And so this topic ties in with that, but I want it to be explained that that is where I see this this topic, which is the Trump administration has now sent out a memo to National Park Services that a handful of National Park Service lands will be open to hunting. And in general, you can assume that if something is controlled by the National Park Service, it is not open to hunting previously before this note went out. or order, guess, whatever you want to call it. That's not always true. There are some some limited examples of national parkland that have been available to be hunted under very strict Super regulated guidelines But According to this this is an article that came from outside magazine. I chose this resource because I figured it was a More towards the middle than a lot of other people riding on it And it was by Owen Clark. It just came out a couple days ago, May 10th. And the idea is that national park lands, and it includes in that wildlife refuges. So an example of a wildlife refuge here in Iowa would be like the, I think it's called the Port Louisa National Wildlife Refuge on the Mississippi River. Kent Boucher (23:39.042) down south of Muscatine area. Also national monuments, example of that here in Iowa would be, Nick is totally zoned out right now. Nicolas Lirio (23:50.863) I'm not zoned out at all. I have a bunch of follow-up questions, but I'm trying to let you... Kent Boucher (23:55.598) So a national monument would be the Why can't I think of the name of it the burial mounds up in a half a G mounds Thank you in Northeast, Iowa up by Harpers Ferry I believe is the closest city named for that So areas like similar to that not those exact areas but just to kind of give you an idea of when they say national parkland and Riley Rozendaal (24:05.326) FG Kent Boucher (24:25.332) So part of me, I'm an avid hunter. Hopefully you understand that by now, if you're listening to this podcast. In fact, for years I hosted another hunting podcast and I've hunted in a lot of different States. I've hunted many different species of wildlife and I've even hunted on land that borders national monuments, borders national parks. Seems like there is a that was a national monument as well. So I've been in these scenarios, right? I've seen how this plays out. And so part of me says, woohoo, right? Like a knee jerk reaction is, wow, more, more land to hunt. But let's go back to how I started this conversation. I do not trust this administration when it comes to issues of public land conservation, wildlife management, things like that. And so the surface level debating that's going on on this is, well, now it's not going to be safe for visitors to go to these parks because there's hunting going on. In fact, one comment in here was we aren't even sure that hunting is not going to be taking taking place because one of the areas that they're opening up is the Cape Cod National Seashore in Mass. Someone commented, we don't even know that people aren't going to be hunting during the summer busy beach going time. It's like Listen to what you just said. How much hunting goes, how many hunting seasons are open on or open in July, right? And maybe you can hunt like, like here in Iowa, you can hunt, you know, raccoons and, and coyotes you're around or something like that. So you might have a few people that are just intentionally trying to be a jerk and those people make hunting worse for everybody. I'll be the first to say that. but, but that's not going to really be an issue, right? they're not gonna have mass human casualty events because people are sending stray rounds through the walking trails and stuff like that, right? So I don't really find that argument, those types of arguments in all of this. I mean, yeah, those are serious considerations. Don't have people hunting where it's not safe for other people to be, of course. In our public lands, one of the best things about them that I think a lot of hunters forget is that they are multi... Kent Boucher (26:53.868) multiple use properties. One time I was elk hunting and there were people that were skydiving right above me. There was another guy that went flying by on one of those stupid little ultra light airplane deals, you know, it's like a lawnmower with wings, you know? And so, but as I was watching that, it's like, I can't get mad about this. That lawnmower airplane dude has every much. of a right to this area as I do because that's part of what makes America a wonderful place, right? Is we have these vast public areas. So that being said though, we have to have those housekeeping rules that make it so that everyone can enjoy safely and responsibly and to the fullest of what they are owed as a public land owner, right? Being an American. To me, the... The scariest part of all of this is that the hunting community especially, now you could throw other outdoor enthusiasts in that, backpackers, bird watchers, anglers even, but especially hunters. And I would even separate hunters from anglers on this too. A of times those things get linked together. But hunters specifically, when you look at the public land sell-off that was, pushed last year by Mike Lee and whoever the dude was from, I think it was Nevada, yeah, Nevada. It was hunters that raised the loudest cry on that, right? historically, hunters are a almost shoe-in conservative voter block, right? And this administration has not made better friends with hunters over the last year and a half that they've been in office, right? The hunting community has seen huge things like the Boundary Waters thing is probably the most recent one. The fact that they've had to continue to rally together to push back against public land sale. They've seen more extraction leases taking place. Kent Boucher (29:15.8) there's there's been these constant fires that directly tied to them, right. And so to me, this is viewed as a way to pacify one of the most formidable opponents to the overall goal of especially Doug Burgum, which is, look, we're taking Yes, we're taking this stuff away from you over here. But we're giving you this. And, just like when if somebody like really screws you in a deal or something that somebody who you're going to have continued relationship with afterwards, if that relationship is ever going to be restored, they just got to say, Hey, I'm sorry, I was wrong. Please forgive me in some way, or form. Nicolas Lirio (30:09.804) instead of just like baking you cookies. Kent Boucher (30:11.5) Yes, not what are dysfunctional people do they get nicey nice? Yeah, yeah, yeah, they real nicey nice. They don't ever tell you sorry, they're never tell you that, hey, I was wrong here. They're just going to be extra nice to you to cover it. And and so to me, it's just this dis just represents this dysfunctional relationship. Nicolas Lirio (30:31.192) Well, let's let's let's imagine the administration was actually really good for conservation. So in a vacuum, is this decision good or bad? Because I totally agree with you. There's probably some other. Kent Boucher (30:43.278) question we're trying to shoot for. So I'm gonna, to help answer that, now I haven't hunted all, you know, national park, you know, near all national park lands and stuff, but I have two areas. And it was interesting, one place was in Nebraska, and we would have to drive through this unhuntable federal land every morning to get to our different spots where we were going to be. where we were allowed to hunt. And you would see more deer. I mean, 10 times more deer on that net that federal land that we did not have access to. I mean, chasing around. It was this late rot. You know, big bucks. mean, one buck we called Frank the tank. I mean, you'd see him every day. Just this this big nine new. Yep, exactly where he couldn't couldn't couldn't go. And Nicolas Lirio (31:43.874) Exactly where he could and couldn't go. Kent Boucher (31:50.648) Part of hunting is yes, you want to have recreational opportunity, lifestyle opportunity for your constituents. That is part of it. But another part of it should be, as a part of our North American model of wildlife management, that we use hunting as a tool to maintain healthy populations. Now, are the deer in that particular piece of federal land at a healthy population? Might be. sure is a whole heck of a lot higher than the tens of thousands of acres of prairie all around them. Now that prairie is heavily grazed by cattle, but point being that there's a lot of habitat around it. You don't see near the deer density as what you see in that in those federal acres. So I suspect that those numbers are probably inflated beyond what healthy carrying capacity is for for there, but they're able to get away with it because during the nonhunting season they can go off there and hang out in the. So hunting could be used as a tool in that place probably. Another place I was hunting elk, it was interesting. were on, there was a national park, and I want to say there was a national monument, and there was a restricted access piece of public land where you. could go on at a certain time of the day and had to be off by a certain time of the day. And then we hunted in some BLM land and some national forest land in that general area. And the elk, it was interesting, the elk in that area knew the schedule. the piece of public that had the limited access for the certain hours, those elks, those elk, like set their watch to it, you know what I mean? And they knew that they could get over onto either that national monument land or that national park land and be totally safe, right? Nobody can get to them anytime. And so you could see elk working the pattern of like the physical barriers of all these different pieces of land. And would it be helpful to allow hunters to cross some of those barriers to? Kent Boucher (34:16.171) to go and scatter the elk into a more normal, natural pattern of movement and behavior, might be. Yeah. Might be, right? Certainly wasn't any less safe for someone to be hunting right there as opposed to 50 yards in the other direction. Nicolas Lirio (34:35.512) So you're saying a person in a white van pulled up to you and said, got Costco hot dog. And you said, all right, but I'm watching you. Seems like there's something else going on here. Kent Boucher (34:48.77) I'm more, would say, yeah, I mean, I wouldn't be to the point of where if this does end up happening and sticking and opening up a lot of access, I'm not to the point where out of principle, no, I refuse to partake. But I do think that people should keep their eyes open because I think it is just a way to pacify a lot of negative. Well, a building animosity between two groups that normally were friends, right? And, and also a way. So a way to address that animosity. But the reason for that isn't because they want to be friends again. It's because they want to be able to take something from you. And, and you're it's easier to rob somebody when they're happy with you. Right? Yeah. It's easier. It's easier. It's easier to embezzle money than it is to rob a bank. Right? Because you When people are trusted, like you said, they can get away with something. The Rita Cronwell story, by the way. Great documentary. Nicolas Lirio (35:56.002) I need to listen. Maybe we can listen tomorrow on our way to Wisconsin. Kent Boucher (35:59.798) That's just my yeah, yeah, that's my that is my I guess how I'm seeing through it I Don't trust this administration when it comes to public land and I won't for the remainder of They could do a hundred good things and I will not trust them because the pattern for the last 18 months has clearly shown that greed and and squeezing every last drop out of out of our our Resources is is the true motivation and so I view it as nicey-nice and not as As yeah, this is this is a good make sense Positive I think there is a lot of sense that can be made in it I do I think that that there there are examples of national park land that it would make sense to open hunting I also fear though to Hunters are a small minority of our country roughly 4 % of Americans hunt And I would imagine probably roughly 4 % of Americans are 100 % anti-hunting. They want hunting to be made a And so that leaves you with, what is that remainder? 92 % of Americans that are kinda like, meh, hunting's okay. But that's gonna get less and less if hunters act like tools, if stuff like this is. is made aloud and it's an in your face kind of thing. it's a, and, if something, you know, some of those issues that I kind of downplayed earlier, if they do start to happen or, or just if the hunter's problem gets passed on to the birdwatchers problem. Nicolas Lirio (37:43.18) I'm not a 40 chess conspiracy theory believer, you know, when you're like, well, that was a dumb move that that politician just made. No, dude, they got 40 chess going on. They got I'm not I don't think that's what's going on. But no, Kent Boucher (37:58.203) through history there are very few plotters you know what mean most people just react Nicolas Lirio (38:02.52) plotted real cleverly, John F Lacey. And I, it would be interesting cause I don't think this is what's going on, but it'd be an interesting 40 chess move to get hunters in a position to interact with more of the public and a negative interaction so that in 12 years you could pass something else. Yeah. You know what mean? I don't think that's what's going on cause no government officials don't seem to see past the term, but Kent Boucher (38:05.612) Yeah, dude, yeah. Kent Boucher (38:27.944) And, and it's interesting that I would not expect this administration to have anti hunting sentiments, right? Like hunting is immoral, that kind of anti hunting. However, selling off public land, increasing extraction, degrading the Boundary Waters area. Those are like anti hunting moves. You know what I mean? And so I would not expect like a 4D chess type move to be coming from this administration in the sense of we want hunting to go away. I wouldn't expect that and that's who is pushing this. Now if it was coming from the left side of politics where there are a lot of anti-hunting advocates in leftist politics, then yeah, I would. Possibly you could maybe you could maybe get me to listen for a few seconds more on But Nicolas Lirio (39:31.658) on that but before you delete the bird before you get out of that comment section Kent Boucher (39:37.086) Yeah, right, right. But yeah, I just I don't trust. Yeah, I don't trust that straight win. Nicolas Lirio (39:43.682) What do you think about it? Riley Rozendaal (39:45.702) I think that like most things that the government does, this will have unintended consequences that will be positive in one spot and negative in another. It's not going to be targeted the way that they're talking about this in my mind. It's not going to be, well, we have a problem with H.D. and, you know, near this national park. If we get more hunting going on, maybe we can. Yeah, it's this is a sweeping change. And I don't think, frankly, that the government, the government doesn't care when 40 percent of people don't like them. Why? Why would they care? Four percent of hunters do or don't want this. There's there's something that they're doing. Kent Boucher (40:20.93) No. Riley Rozendaal (40:29.122) They've decided it's a good choice and they're gonna do it and they're gonna try and, know, whether it be the boundary waters or they're gonna chart a course and try and set it. Nicolas Lirio (40:37.164) Well, I mean, one thing that hunters have going for them is they have a multiple of four percent of the wealth in the United States, because think of like the percentage of hunters that are landowners or or hunting can be expensive. So just to be in it. Kent Boucher (40:58.146) hunt. Yeah, there's a lot of resources. That's great. Nicolas Lirio (41:01.016) Very point broke hunters, but you know, Kent Boucher (41:03.65) No, that's a a that's a fair point. And is and hunters have. Right, know, hunters have proven they can they can throw their weight around and get policy change. However, to Riley's point, the Boundary Waters, those same groups that that literally got I mean, if I remember correctly, Mike Lee tweeted out like, hey, hunters, I hear you. I'm pulling this out of the big, beautiful bill. But that didn't work. Nicolas Lirio (41:06.87) And what I mean by that, proven in Washington. Kent Boucher (41:33.346) for the Boundary Waters, right? It's the same exact groups were sending the emails, were beating down the door, and they said, we're still gonna do it. Nicolas Lirio (41:44.492) Hunters, we need to be better entrepreneurs. We're getting beat up by Chilean mining companies. Interesting. Well, think Riley, did you have something as well? Riley Rozendaal (41:54.658) Yeah, I got some kind of a follow-up. It was talked about in a previous podcast, but I'm just revisiting it. I have two articles, both pretty brief because it's kind of a open and shut deal, but one from the Montana Farm Bureau Federation and one from Montana Public Radio. The topic surrounding the Bureau of Land Management canceling bison grazing permits, American Prairie grazing permits. We talked about it briefly when it hit the news, but it has officially gone through. Those grazing leases have been actually canceled by BLM. Nicolas Lirio (42:39.202) Who made that decision? Because that's not voted on, it? That's like USDA or Department of the Interior. Riley Rozendaal (42:46.638) It doesn't list like a, Doug Burgum did this thing. This is actually, it was the BLM overturning, because these leases were granted in 2022. So this is relatively new in the scheme of things. In 2022, the administration at the time allowed these leases to go through for American Prairie. And that decision, to my understanding, was appealed and then was overturned. So I don't, it's been pushed like the Montana Farm Bureau actually. Kent Boucher (43:25.762) But it is the Department of the Interior who had the final say, right? It wasn't a congressional hearing. Riley Rozendaal (43:33.518) Yeah, I didn't see any, I guess you'd call that outside. Kent Boucher (43:38.188) Yeah, from what I've understood, this was all administratively done through the Department of the Interior. Riley Rozendaal (43:44.494) The Montana Farm Bureau said basically that they triumphed the proposed decision to remand American Prairie Reserve's grazing leases and its verdict yesterday the Bureau of Land Management reversed a 2022 decision that allowed bison to graze on seven federal land allotments leased by American Prairie. The argument was that these animals, these wild bison were being used Nicolas Lirio (44:06.114) So what's the argument? Riley Rozendaal (44:13.71) as wildlife not as Because the Taylor grazing act which is what these these allotments were under is for an economic gain or an economic production so the argument being these allotments were previously grazed by ranchers who were putting in economic input in the area and per the Taylor grazing act they have to generate a economic impact basically. And American Prairie was, the decision was basically that American Prairie was having these bison wild as wildlife and not as a, I guess you would call it a domesticated livestock operation. So. Nicolas Lirio (45:04.526) Interesting. so do you think the because there is some poor sentiment towards them from landowners. Do you think or you know ranchers out in the area do you think they banded together to yell to their representative? Yeah. Riley Rozendaal (45:19.778) Yeah, there was a lot of there's a lot of pressure around American Prairie Reserve from from ranchers right or wrong, right? You can I can see both sides where you've got ranchers who have lived in an area with their families on these operations and Depended on allotments because the West Ranching in the West is not like I'll go buy, know 300 acres and put cows on it It's like there are these big allotments. There are these big allotments. They have the chance to lease And if you lose that lease, you may have to sell a 30-year cattle herd. Nicolas Lirio (45:52.917) Yeah. Kent Boucher (45:53.666) Yeah, but the thing about it is that I don't understand is once you have the lease, it's your lease to lose, right? So it's not like, I hope we bid it high enough each year. You hang on to it as long. I mean, there's there's guys that have held leases for I think generations like it's on to the grandson who's still holding the same public land grazing lease that is that his grandfather had. Wow. Nicolas Lirio (46:18.294) That is a wild wealth grab. Kent Boucher (46:20.934) And so to me, if the lease became available, wasn't because somebody, you know, like, pulled the rug on me. Where do I put my cows now? It was because they didn't have cows to put there. American Prairie took, that's how I understand it. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm off base here, but that is how I understand it. Also, I think it's important to note that through listening to other interviews with, American prairie individuals, and yes, I'm biased. I think they should have their bison there. Don't try and read between the lines, I'll tell you. They do just as much, if not more, health monitoring of those bison that a cattleman would do for his cows. Riley Rozendaal (46:58.51) There's an open book here. Nicolas Lirio (47:12.62) So, they're not, they don't round them up and sell any of them. It's basically. Kent Boucher (47:16.012) Yeah, I don't know if they sell any. They do allow people to hunt them, so you can apply for tags to hunt them and there's an expense there, you know? Riley Rozendaal (47:25.71) I think what it comes down to is splitting hairs. There was a lot of money spent in getting to this point where this decision was appealed. think that what it comes down to ultimately though is they found a workaround to get this lease revoked. Because the argument could be made that these animals that are not being managed as livestock very well could bring in more money through tourism than the tax being paid on them being sold as livestock. I think that there is a gray line that we're kind of wandering, know, where it was pulled through the Taylor Grazing Act, but the argument could be made that their economic impact could be the same if not greater. Kent Boucher (47:58.839) Right. Kent Boucher (48:17.87) Yeah, the way I the way I see it is if I was in a feud with my neighbor For whatever reasons, right? and I searched the the the homeowners Association ordinances and You cannot have a flagpole that is this number of feet from this thing and isn't this tall and I turned them in. And that's kinda how I view it, right? Like they don't like American Prairie because they feel that it attacks ranching culture. And let's be honest, ranching culture, just like all ag culture, is fragile right now and has been for quite some time, right? And so I understand that as a farmer, I understand that as a kid who grew up wanting to farm and couldn't farm because farming culture is all but dead in this area. I understand that. But the way to make myself feel better isn't to go and say, well, you can't do what you're doing instead with what I want to be doing. I don't think anybody wins in that in that case. Nicolas Lirio (49:37.782) Yeah. Yeah. Kent Boucher (49:41.538) To me it's just a case of you know the right people to get what you want. And that's what happened. Nicolas Lirio (49:46.062) I understand, I actually understand on a broad scope why the farmers would be upset because it's like they're having to compete against giant ginormous donations. Have you ever. Kent Boucher (50:01.268) looked that's that is that is a legitimate that is I think that is a legitimate complaint yeah Nicolas Lirio (50:06.614) And so there's pros and cons on each side. Have you guys ever looked at the list of board of directors for the American Prairie? Some of the biggest names in the United States. Yep, listener emailed me and is like, you should look at this list. So and I don't think it's like a big conspiracy. I think it's just like. Kent Boucher (50:19.182) Deep, deep, pockets. Nicolas Lirio (50:29.066) America Prairie was really good at getting to these companies and saying, hey, you want to have a good ecological impact with your money? Like we can help make that happen, you know, and instead of a park, it's like we're going after a million acres, you know, and you can always do it. but so if you if you you pull back and you look at from that point of view for the farmers, I understand. But if you pull back even further and you look at it from a humanity perspective, like, well, hey, we kind of like we have nowhere really left for the bison except a little bit in Yellowstone and be really nice to like. do that as a nation, but the farmers in the area are the ones taking the biggest L, right? We get the benefits. We have these giant ecological areas where we could go and visit, and I'm for that. I'd want that to be able to be the case, but I also understand the farmers fighting tooth and nail. They're like, yeah, but you're ruining my world. It's like, what's that movie? Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, where they're like, so I don't know if you guys know what the aliens show up. We filed about a thousand years ago, we helped you build some pyramids and everything and we let you know that we're gonna build a highway, intergalactic highway system through your planet and gave you plenty of time to appeal since you didn't appeal. Well, we're blowing up your planet today and good for the galaxy, bad for Earth. And so I understand the farmers fighting for that. But. Kent Boucher (51:47.074) Yeah, I would have sympathy for sure for a rancher who let's say is building his way up and or her way up and they they show up to the the land auction, right? And they own land in that same those counties or wherever American Prairie is at and they want to expand their ranch. in the same direction that American Prairie does, and it makes sense for them to do so. And they show up with fair market value, but there will always be $1 more coming from because of. Right. And I can understand how people would maybe even view that as greenwashing the whole project. But even if it is, what an incredible gift, ecological gift to Nicolas Lirio (52:28.27) because Coca Cola right now. Kent Boucher (52:44.654) Great Plains to have American Prairie there. And as we talk about, I don't know, probably in hundreds of episodes now, that the prairie needs all members for it to be a healthy prairie. bison, perhaps, are the greatest keystone species of prairie eagles. Nicolas Lirio (53:01.646) ecosystem biome it wasn't a set of plants right it was like you don't have a product Kent Boucher (53:08.342) Yeah, yeah, yeah, right and so to and cows in K in some in many cases can be better than nothing But they are not by they are not a sub for now for for bison Nicolas Lirio (53:23.754) Episode 53 and 54 maybe? With Bob Jackson. Maybe our best episodes we've ever done. Yeah. I mean really really good episodes. Highly recommend going back and listening to those. We had to bleep some stuff out but it was good. Kent Boucher (53:39.534) And so to me it it hey we might have to never mind We might have to bleep that out Some things have happened since then but yeah the to me it's it's a loss for the prairie and the Nicolas Lirio (53:48.928) Yeah Kent Boucher (54:03.15) I'm confident though that because they are a talented team we've had the privilege of meeting Sean who I believe is still on the board of directors there. Nicolas Lirio (54:09.868) I think so. He's definitely not in the Kent Boucher (54:12.191) He's not he's not the CEO anymore and he was very clear about that which I thought was cool Yeah, he's very supportive of the the the new CEO Allison something else or Fox. Yeah Nicolas Lirio (54:24.152) Yeah, he did an unreal job getting that up and off the ground. Kent Boucher (54:28.642) Yeah. Yeah. So to me, I personally, weighing in on it, I view it as a net negative for conservation for a great project that's being done. Riley Rozendaal (54:42.17) I it's important to note too that this can still be appealed. I that there's still an appeal ability that they have, they can work with. So I don't think this is the end of the road for it. I think it's just kind of like the boundary waters. is disappointing outcome in a longer kind of battle. Kent Boucher (54:46.539) can't. Nicolas Lirio (55:07.284) You know, recently I saw a Facebook ad for one of the candidates for governor and they were basically like, Hey, data centers, get out of here. And they had the phrase, unless you have an offer, we can't refuse. Right. And I think maybe for the ranchers who are there who are taking the L, Kent Boucher (55:26.946) We gotta be careful talking about data centers. Those have not been popular really. Nicolas Lirio (55:30.07) people do not like us talking about data centers. Kent Boucher (55:34.796) And for the record, are not being paid by a data center. Pro data center, Kent Boucher (55:45.87) And at what point in history have we been able to tell it an entire industry no go away Because we don't because we don't want Nicolas Lirio (55:56.27) It happened with railroads and then it happened with cars and then it happened with internet. Kent Boucher (56:02.722) So you may as well force them to make a decision that is favorable for us if they're going to make the decision. Nicolas Lirio (56:08.686) I do think we as a people could rise up and fight them off for a period of time. The only way you absolutely beat data centers is you delete all your social media and convince all your friends to do it. That's your only chance. And if you're not, if we're not willing to do that as a. Kent Boucher (56:15.074) Yeah, you might be able Kent Boucher (56:25.678) and stop using AI to where the AI economy ceases to exist. Nicolas Lirio (56:30.934) Yep. And that would have huge negative ramifications, which I think maybe would be better for humans. But unless we're willing to do that, I don't know. I'm not saying they're going to park in Iowa or Wisconsin or I think our next most listened state is Illinois or Illinois. I'm not saying they're going to be there, but they will be somewhere. Right. And so if they're willing to shake a billion dollars in our face, Kent Boucher (56:56.514) Yes, squeeze them for every last drop. they're going to take up our land and our water, make them pay. Nicolas Lirio (57:02.894) Yeah, look, you keep trying to sell me the same fake team who items on Facebook. You owe me clean water. man. All right. Well, everyone, thank you so much for listening. We really, really appreciate y'all. And I'm sure there's an announcement I'm forgetting. But for now, we'll talk to you. Kent Boucher (57:22.688) yeah, one announcement. Get on the forum. Nicolas Lirio (57:25.134) Get on the forum. Thanks, Ken. Yeah, get on the forum. We have. I check that every day and so if you ask a question on there, you won't just get if you email, you're just going to get my question. Kent Boucher (57:37.614) And we're still getting texted at least, I'd say twice a week, questions on Prairie management stuff, like personally from friends. Oh yeah. and yeah, friends. So that tells me that we need to get more, those questions need to get thrown on the forum. Yeah. And so that we can have those. Nicolas Lirio (57:47.414) I start rejecting. Nicolas Lirio (57:55.47) Many questions plural every day. This is the other thing that I forgot. We need your help with this. Won't hurt my feelings if you don't. We are putting together a list of realtors that we believe do conservation well and have good conservation at heart. And we're just gonna have a list of them that we stamp of approval specifically for. Conservation. I don't know if they're going to get you a good deal or more money. I don't know about any of that on that skill set side. but if you are Kent Boucher (58:29.634) Yeah, if you know grandpa's farm's got to be sold. You may as well have somebody who's gonna do what's right. Nicolas Lirio (58:34.392) Yeah. Who's conservation. So if you know someone that does that and they don't listen to our podcast, send them our way social at the prairie farm.com. They don't have to be a listener. No one's paying us. We're not charging the realtors a hundred dollars or whatever to go on the list. We just want a list of realtors where people can go in States across the Midwest that they can go, okay, I know this person does high quality conservation work and will guide me in a way that can do that so that when you are selling or buying land, you have a good brain inputting on the actual ecological value or decisions that you're gonna be making. So we're making that list. If you are one of those realtors or you know one of those realtors, send them our way, social at the prairiefarm.com. We'll be waiting for those people. wanna help them out. Riley's got stuff to do, so we will talk to you again next time.