Alex Haugen (00:00.295) now by the way so Kent Boucher (00:01.538) Because he used to do that, you know, at the end. Travis Frank (00:03.406) But those are real I don't the Trolley motor you've seen that one a bunch of times or the other goes flying and then he goes in the water Kent Boucher (00:11.895) He's always falling out of the boat somehow. Nicolas Lirio (00:14.734) You guys remember the Toy Story movies where the credits they'd have bloopers of the Toy Story characters? So clever. was so clever. Did you have you guys ever put reels Travis Frank (00:30.136) Yeah, that's in social media has been a thing we used to run Like he was saying we used to run a couple Outtakes at the end if if time allowed it in the episode it depends because every show is times out differently You don't know how long the stories are gonna be and then you got to fill your Yeah, you're a lot of time, but yeah, it's something that we need to do We need to go back in and find him because that's that's just funny stuff. It's Nicolas Lirio (00:54.926) You could also pull people onto your YouTube channel by having the extra, I don't know if you guys are allowed with your contracts, but you know, on the TV episode, it wouldn't have any bloopers, but then if you go to our YouTube and watch it, you could catch bloopers or wherever you want them to watch it. Travis Frank (01:11.672) Yeah, I don't know. see where who knows where TV is gonna go now. I know dude. It's crazy. There's so much that's out there that's available that Alex Haugen (01:18.478) That's why we need to put social media clips of the podcast on social media just saying. Nicolas Lirio (01:23.862) I actually I've struggled with kind of a moral dilemma on. mean, we post four or five posts a day between Hoxie and the Prairie Farm, and it goes each one goes to eight or nine different platforms. And so the amount of hours. I mean. Travis Frank (01:38.828) Which how many? What are they? Alex Haugen (01:41.816) Well, that'd be like Hannah, TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter. Nicolas Lirio (01:45.622) Yep. What else? Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn. No. The whole 4chan man, that'd be wild. No, Reddit wouldn't let me. I couldn't do it. It's Blue Sky. No, not Substack. Blue Sky, Pinterest. Yeah, I think we get what I Travis Frank (01:46.752) LinkedIn. Kent Boucher (01:51.349) space. Alex Haugen (01:53.826) 4chan Travis Frank (01:54.691) BASS Alex Haugen (02:00.97) love reddit Travis Frank (02:07.17) You're on Pinterest? You Kent Boucher (02:11.005) Somebody years ago tell me to to utilize Pinterest and the reason they said is because Pinterest curates content In a more evergreen fashion whereas like on Instagram or tik-tok or Facebook and they've all gotten better at these things with reels, you know Cuz they'll cycle old reels or whatever but it's like it's it's for the day and then it's gone You know what I mean? So like Nicolas Lirio (02:39.416) Yeah, well, Instagram really it's like this and TikTok is like this is for right now. Facebook and YouTube, they like the more evergreen kind of but I refuse to micromanage the posts. I have the same title, the same caption for all of them for going out to all the places. And that's not what you're supposed to do. But my life is not going to be consumed with social media, even if it's me making stuff. I refuse. Travis Frank (03:03.269) You can really get sucked into it. Alex Haugen (03:05.312) You know what, think you need a social media manager. Nicolas Lirio (03:07.598) We've thought about it, but I'm... Alex Haugen (03:09.996) Because Hannah having Hannah and Hannah runs Ron chair productions and our podcast side So that's even a lot like I feel bad for her that she has to do both like it's a lot trying to do what you're doing Nicolas Lirio (03:20.472) Well, Joy Van Winegarden did it for a while and she was unbelievably good. We don't have, she has taste. We didn't have, we don't have taste. we just use. Alex Haugen (03:29.454) Kent, how do you feel that he's saying that about you? A lot of wee talk. Travis Frank (03:32.684) He just lumps you Kent Boucher (03:35.298) Whatever my problem. Travis Frank (03:38.222) I like your hat can you sure looks good to carry a smile and that makes that makes up for anything that you wear if you have a smile on your face it doesn't matter what you're wearing that's a bad a couple times where I walk out and I'm like honey what do you think and I've got this like kind of and she's like if you had a smile on your face it'd look better and I was like Nicolas Lirio (03:43.266) Good luck. Alex Haugen (03:44.27) And is very white Kent Boucher (03:52.418) Good f- Alex Haugen (03:52.792) I would agree with that. Alex Haugen (04:03.822) Does your wife help you like curate your outfits at all? Or no? Well, okay, well, I was gonna say anyway. I'm gonna follow it up by saying. Travis Frank (04:08.654) I wear the pants, Al. Travis Frank (04:18.325) You're very she does all the Alex Haugen (04:20.014) I do like your outfits a lot like you're very color coordinated a lot, Travis Frank (04:23.928) She doesn't color coordinate my outfits. Well, I know she does say I like that. Yeah. And if she says I like it, then I say, OK. Alex Haugen (04:31.476) You know like, how many 40 year olds wear Jordans all the time? know, like, I like that. Travis Frank (04:37.55) Thanks. I told you this Alex. These are my first. This is actually my second pair now. I always wanted Jordans growing up. Air Jordans. had it. We didn't have the money to buy it. My parents would never spend the money. was a waste of money. Kent Boucher (04:49.678) Do you want the ones that had like the super shiny? Travis Frank (04:51.918) Whatever they were back then. Alex Haugen (04:54.146) You see, I wear Jordans all the time. Jordans and like dunks are cooled out. Like Jordans and blazers. Blazers. True, but like the Jordan one blew up. Nicolas Lirio (04:59.246) Jordans have always been cool. Travis Frank (05:01.646) I know and then when I got them a couple years ago, I just it was one of those moments in life where I Thought back to as a child not having something wishing I could and then now I bought it for myself Alex Haugen (05:13.742) Isn't that the greatest part about being an adult? That's why I bought a snowboard and now I snowboard all the time because when I was a kid we could never afford a snowboard. Now I'm an adult. I went out that was like one of the first things I could still Kent Boucher (05:23.039) I can't afford it either but Nicolas Lirio (05:25.666) Get it. my my grandma talks about that because she has a ton of toys in her house and she talks about the one toy she ever owned her whole childhood. The one single toy. And I know that she only had one because she has a failing memory, but she still remembers this one toy and that she only had one. And and now she like collects rubber duckies and logs. Yeah. But it's like she didn't have anything growing. She was like a really poor pastor's youngest daughter. Alex Haugen (05:53.998) It's a good thing I'm recording so you can use this if you want to. Travis Frank (05:56.904) Do you want to produce a podcast? Alex Haugen (05:59.278) I think this is great conversation for the podcast. It's just you technically haven't said we're recording. Yeah Nicolas Lirio (06:05.695) Okay, Travis whenever you're ready, we'll have you look at the camera and give your name title and this is the Prairie Farm podcast Travis Frank (06:11.608) My name is Travis Frank, host of the Flush television show and podcast, and this is the Prairie Farm Podcast. Travis Frank (06:20.654) Is that what you wanted? Yeah, I feel like that's how you start every show but then you go in and you say all this stuff and This is the Prairie Farm pot and this you know, all these people that rattle off their names and then Carol hits you with one Yeah, and then you bring back more we were and you go through another cycle of people and then he wraps it up again Kent Boucher (06:41.708) Yeah, we're just talking about the the Carol part and it still gets us. Nicolas Lirio (06:45.838) time when I'm editing. yeah and I make myself listen to it every time. You know I want it to hurt. I want it to be sad. Travis Frank (06:52.984) How many episodes have you guys produced now? Nicolas Lirio (06:55.95) 350 dropped today technically, but we've put out a Kent Boucher (06:56.398) 300 and Travis Frank (07:00.91) Do you count the coffee time as a? Nicolas Lirio (07:03.726) Yeah, yeah, we've done probably 370 with another 15. Travis Frank (07:07.822) You're gonna catch Rogan here pretty soon if you guys keep it up. Kent Boucher (07:10.606) No. Nicolas Lirio (07:11.528) That guy's that guy well, he's done he does less of them now Yeah, I mean I think everybody's passed the listen to every episode of any podcast and Yeah, but I Props to Rogan he changed Media format how we know it right introduced long I mean yeah big shout out to him and occasionally less so now But occasionally he has a guest that I'm like I really want to hear from that girl Travis Frank (07:14.734) You ever listen to him? Travis Frank (07:21.454) There's so much out there right now. Travis Frank (07:37.036) Yeah, it's, it's hard sometimes to think about, you know, weeks in here. So I think we started ours six ish years ago, five and a half, six years ago, something like that. You know, and you guys are what, four years into it? Every week, you got to have something new to talk about. Granted, there's always something going on out there in the landscape. So you can really work news into it and things that you're learning. But Kent Boucher (07:51.52) coming up on that. Travis Frank (08:03.566) in my world, in the hunting world, it's like how many different ways can I talk about the blue stem in the soil grows a pheasant. We all know it, right? And water quality depends on grass. We know that. But it's just sometimes I feel like I'm just beating it and beating it and I need something else to talk about. And we talk dog training and gearing up for the hunt and what we're seeing on the landscape. But that's what I like when you guys come up because we can really dig into some topics and I appreciate your insight a lot. And that's why I like your podcast. Nicolas Lirio (08:34.835) Al, what episode are we dropping? Kent Boucher (08:37.399) Treat we're treating now like he's our sister. He one episode Alex Haugen (08:39.758) You guys will be Nicolas Lirio (08:43.435) Because we went on 12 312 we went on Travis's podcast. It would have been a few weeks before this dropped and by golly we got off topic on that one, but I really enjoyed it. Travis Frank (08:55.806) I appreciate you guys because I don't have really scripts and I don't know which way the conversation is gonna go. I just had a couple of notes on this one that I actually printed and wrote down. I don't ever do that but it was I just wanted to make sure we talked about your new forum and I wanted to talk about planting and we never got to it. Alex Haugen (09:14.638) You guys are 312 episode 312 feel like we've done so much more than that isn't that kind of insane Trav? They're already at you guys are already at what 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 Nicolas Lirio (09:17.614) Okay, perfect, Travis Frank (09:21.55) 300 episode Wow. Yeah. Is this your favorite part of Haxi? Kent Boucher (09:33.998) My favorite part of Hoxie is the purpose of a while. The sense of purpose I get from doing this job. But as far as like, Nicolas Lirio (09:44.814) and field maps. He's a big fan of field maps. Kent Boucher (09:47.214) I hate doing field maps, but that's where we have to map out everything that we Nicolas Lirio (09:52.802) That's like a. Travis Frank (09:53.248) Use a roller wheel and we have to be exact on it Nicolas Lirio (09:55.726) If I know Kent's doing field maps, try to like have a... Kent Boucher (10:00.398) I just call you down, buddy. I have a bunch of fields I got to wheel out coming up here soon. I might just call you down and you can just keep. Travis Frank (10:08.078) My last episode of the flush that we filmed was with the landowner in Kansas and he did the wheel and mapped out because he wanted to build quail habitat. Russian olive bushes are just like, yeah, but not on his land because it was farmland. So he was bringing it back into wildlife habitat. But he wanted to create these, these little pieces of Alex Haugen (10:08.269) call. Kent Boucher (10:24.375) everywhere. Travis Frank (10:37.07) brush and shrubbery in the middle of the grass so that a quail because they need to have everything from the moment they nest to when the chicks are born to being able to run around in the grass. I mean you think about a tiny quail it's like the size of your thumbnail with with legs and they're running around they can't if it's too thick it's no good they can't get through it you know they got to be able to get insects they've got to be able to get cover they need everything right there. So he had these these olive pieces and I want to say because of his CRP contract, he had to do them in 20 by 30 blocks. Yeah. So if, if you were to look at this, you'd see these blocks everywhere and they can't leave without, he has to control them so they don't grow, which they continue to grow. he has to maintain them by hand. They planted 30,000 plants by hand. Yes. So I've never seen more quail. wild quail on the landscape, then I saw it his place. And obviously it's worked very, very well. But he gives a quail everything they need in a very small area. And so you've got these coveys that are running all over on his property. So much so that universities looking to study the birds have reached out to him and they collared some of his birds and they've got microphones out there. So we'd be walking by and go, are they listening to us now? And goes, someone could be. Yeah, it's a recording. And they go, you know, they they record the whistle, and they can determine how many cubbies are on this guy's property. And it's just fascinating stuff. But you talk about the wheel and he wheeled out. Yeah, every single one so that they were exact so that he didn't. He didn't cross the boundaries on the CRP contract, he had to stay within these certain specified limits. Otherwise, the contract was null and void. Nicolas Lirio (12:34.734) It is interesting the difference I'm starting to notice on CRP land that is like they did it 80 % of the job and they did a B level job, which is not bad. I'm not complaining. I'm glad it's there to the people who put the extra 10, 15, 20 % of the effort or money or work in. And it's like a big difference, you know, when you actually end up getting on the landscape. Because you could plant all the same species, put 10 % less effort and 70 % of your native plant species don't show up as well. But it sounds like that guy put in all the effort and he... Travis Frank (13:13.686) He's burning all the time. He's got it figured out in a journal and he lays everything out knowing which piece was burnt when and it's got like a dozen properties down there. So good for him. Good for him for being able to do it and loving the birds that much. Yeah. And hunting them is not as much fun for him as it is to actually just see him there on the landscape. They were there at one time and now he's brought him back. And the cool thing, some of those collared birds are showing up. I want to say over 10 miles away from this guy's property. Really? So his impact is being noticed by area landowners that see these wild creatures thriving on his property and they say I want some of that. Well now they've got irrigation pivot and there's you know in the corners of the property of a section that has an irrigator you know circling around. Well there's a few acres of grass there and now in these corners these landowners find value in it and wildlife do too. So they're all benefiting when one person puts a lot of effort in. Yeah, it's hard not to see it. And then when you see it, you think I can do that. Yeah. And it might inspire somebody to do it too. So his neighbors have some more habitat on the ground, more grass, more deer, more quail, more pheasants, and some of his pheasants are propagating around, you know, it's it's sort of a feeder for the wild birds. Kent Boucher (14:37.742) I mean, we kind of, so this goes well with one of my questions I had for you. I wanted your honest take on Iowa after you came and hunted with us. I mean, obviously not the whole state you didn't see, but you saw a good portion of southern Iowa. What was, I mean, what was some of your take on that? You've hunted all over the Midwest. And when I was looking at the map out there, now you're behind on a few pins. But there weren't a lot of pins in Iowa. Nicolas Lirio (14:59.627) Yeah, be honest, blue wolf. Travis Frank (15:07.394) Yeah, that's because hunting opportunities in Iowa aren't as plentiful as they are in other states. There's some great you guys have some of most fertile soil in America. Obviously, crops grow very well. Your grasses, the thickest habitat for pheasants in America is probably in Iowa. Kent Boucher (15:16.553) That's not Travis Frank (15:31.886) the tallest blue some of the tall guys so i've walked into pretty tall grass where the birds get up and i can't shoot because the grass is so tall. It's just blue stuff, it's like cattails almost. That's tall and thick it is. Alex Haugen (15:42.926) Do you hunt with the tallest people possible? do you feel about Nicolas Lirio (15:47.294) Yeah, is it taller than like Arkansas big bluestem? Travis Frank (15:52.078) can't say. Can't say for sure. So the soil is obviously southwest corner of Minnesota has really tall thick grasses too. So somebody puts in CRP in southwest Minnesota, they're going to have a really, really good property most of the time just because of how rich the nutrients in the soil are. Well, the problem though with Iowa is that you have small little pieces. So it doesn't always connect with massive tracks where if a bird flies, if let's say you've got a pheasant on not all places, I don't want to generalize here, but a lot of them that I've hunted in Iowa, one person has great habitat. So there might be 25 birds there. Let's say half are roosters, half are hens come start up hunting season. You shoot a couple of them. They don't replenish. They're not coming from the neighbor's property. So that's what you have. And it's great hunting there. It's just, it's not fast. You're not having birds from the neighbors fly over. You're not having them come from the east, the south, the west where, where wild creatures. Nicolas Lirio (17:05.003) see that in the rest of like, North South Dakota, Nebraska, Minnesota, they all have that. Travis Frank (17:11.406) Yeah, we've got a lot of pretty big complexes of wildlife habitat and they continue to grow a lot of the Pheasants Forever chapters. I'll speak to Minnesota because I live here and I'm active in my local chapter. We're constantly looking to build on to these complexes. 80 acres here, 100 acres here. And even though it might be just across the road, these birds, these deer, the turkeys, everything, you see them kind of, you know, throughout the course of the year when the corn is up, I mean, that's That's all free game. The birds and the deer and animals, they're all moving around and then you have massive complexes. Now you've got birds that seem to be coming from this property from the next. And Nicolas Lirio (17:52.674) Do the farmers fight that at all? Because in the American Prairie Reservoir, guess it's called American Prairie right now, there are landowners out there that are upset that there's a nonprofit competing for land in their area. Do farmers in Minnesota, do you guys hear much about that? Travis Frank (18:09.23) So normally what ends up happening is landowners see the impact of what these pieces of habitat are doing on the landscape and they love it. And then when their time comes for them to make a decision, do we want to sell this? Are we going to sell? we going to stay in farming? A lot of the chapters, the presidents, the people that are buying these properties, they get approached from the landowner. So it's not the way you would think where they're out there knocking on doors. A lot of times it's just relationship building. Do you know the farmers in your area? That's why the Pheasants Forever model is so effective because it's really based in your area. The chapter in the county that you're in, they hold a banquet, they raise money, they are all from there most likely. Most of them, they know the farmers, the landowners, and they Maybe they grew up there themselves, maybe they're farmers too. So they know each other. And then when the time comes, you spend that money that you raise right there in your own community on in your county. And you we just last week, my kids and I we went to our local WMA and we had hands on habitat day. And there was about 60 other people from our chapter that came out there. We had lunch afterwards, I went through a few tanks in my chainsaw and man does it feel good to cut. down invasives. just love it. I love the smell of chainsaw all over. Yup. Yup. And you get your hands dirty out there and have you Alex Haugen (19:47.906) about Travis's story about last time he was using the chainsaw though? Nicolas Lirio (19:52.13) brother. Travis Frank (19:52.65) Easy. Alex Haugen (19:53.262) out Alex Haugen (19:56.91) We told funny stories on our podcast with you now we got to tell funny stories Travis Frank (20:02.238) Look at this guy! Nicolas Lirio (20:04.44) The tech guy, he reigns supreme. Travis Frank (20:08.174) have to say that before the Hands on Habitat Day this year, they had to have a safety talk. And everybody looked at me. Kent Boucher (20:15.47) Last year we had 61 people show up and this year we have 60. Alex Haugen (20:20.419) Yeah Travis Frank (20:20.622) I have a permanent scar on my left leg from where the blade of my chainsaw nicked my leg and it's as close of a call as a chainsaw as you'd ever want to get. get stitched? Nope. I did my own. I sort of patched it up and wrapped it up and it kept cutting. You just don't mess around with the chainsaw. That's all I'm gonna say. It was just really close and it stupid. I was moving too quick and I got a little careless and the blade was still spinning. I grabbed a branch and I to throw a big branch out of the way. Kent Boucher (20:34.06) Really? Kent Boucher (20:37.942) some duct tape. Travis Frank (20:49.538) Well, a limb caught my chainsaw and it bumped it and moved it just enough that it just nicked right below my kneecap and Nicolas Lirio (20:56.027) yeah. Your legs nothing to those things. No. Travis Frank (21:00.206) Gosh, So we had a safety talk beforehand. And but either way, it's a good reminder. In order for a lesson to stick, has to hurt. Let that sink in for you. Kent Boucher (21:08.94) Did they single you out? Kent Boucher (21:17.39) That's right. Alex Haugen (21:17.708) And at least you were back out there. Nicolas Lirio (21:20.77) You got it. Kent Boucher (21:21.452) You know that's... This week I smashed the guts out of my finger. Travis Frank (21:26.168) Did you? see it. that one? Yeah, you can. Alex Haugen (21:28.75) Yeah Nicolas Lirio (21:31.982) It actually can't really see it well, but actually a lot of his finger is kind of pale green and it's like Travis Frank (21:37.76) Is it in front of our eyes? Alex Haugen (21:39.502) I Kent Boucher (21:39.918) But I did that because I didn't follow some advice that Carol gave me and it interesting I think the first thing I had to fix a big part of my job is is Light mechanic work if it's like a real deep dive then yeah, we go to somebody else but tires You know servicing equipment stuff like that simple fixes, know, got to do it to get in the field so It's actually the exact tire that Carol taught me this lesson with. Travis Frank (22:13.378) Did you have to laugh afterwards? Alex Haugen (22:16.814) Maybe later on. Travis Frank (22:18.946) That's a good one, Carol! Kent Boucher (22:20.446) It was so it was a big front tractor tire and I was having to mount the tire and get the hub lined up to run the lugs and it doesn't have studs you have to you know put like actual bolts in right into the hub and so while I was Spinning the hub to line up the holes on the rim with the holes in the hub. I Had my you know, this is empty So imagine this being the hub, right? I was spinning this while the the wheel was sitting on an outer part of the hub like this right above my finger. It slid off like a 70 pound tire just on that. that's right on the back, right in the nail, you know, right where the nail grows out of. And it just instantly turned purple. It hurt like you wouldn't believe. Travis Frank (23:09.058) match. Alex Haugen (23:16.674) Carol was just laughing down here. Kent Boucher (23:18.414) I will not say what I said, this is a favorite podcast. Alex Haugen (23:21.838) Carol was laughing at you, right? He was looking down. Kent Boucher (23:23.662) So the lesson he taught me on that first day was use a big punch to put to line up the hole. Go fast. Fast. And, it, it nails have always just grossed me out. Fingernail toenail injuries just, just makes me feel like sick, right? Travis Frank (23:29.294) And why weren't you listening to his? I was gonna say you to that always comes back to get you Nicolas Lirio (23:45.742) His toe fungus really Kent Boucher (23:47.784) I do not have toe fungus. Turns out Nick is a guy who preaches air. Alex Haugen (23:53.371) He's airing Nicolas Lirio (23:56.982) toes. Travis Frank (23:57.442) Yeah. Kent Boucher (23:58.094) So I, you know, it hurt like crazy. It's like, well, nothing you can do about it now. And I walk inside, go grab the punch, told Riley, yeah, I just smashed my finger real bad. And Riley, I didn't know this had done that before, not that same way. He had got his closed in a car door or whatever. So he needed to like keep an eye on me because of what happened to him. And so I go back out. I get that tire all mounted back up there, you know, and then I go and I went into the office to grab my ice pack out of my lunchbox because it was like, you know, just hammering. My finger was at that point and man, I'm sitting there icing that thing and I just start feeling sick to my stomach. Like lightheaded, you know, it's like I'm just grossed out by the injury, you know, and, and also I start feeling like I'm going to black out, you know. Travis Frank (24:44.301) Lightheaded? Kent Boucher (24:54.12) And so I like I like sit in the office chair and I like wheel over to the wall and turn the temperature down. I'm pouring sweat and everything. And then Riley comes in and he's like, you're going to you're going into shock, aren't you? I was like, I don't know. I don't feel good. I know that. And he's like, that same thing happened to me when I smashed my fingernail. It just gets you. like. Travis Frank (25:03.47) Nicolas Lirio (25:17.614) I did the same thing when I smashed my fingernail. I was putting in flooring. was using a, you have like a rubber pad that you put against the flooring and then have a hammer that you smash that rubber pad with. Well, after a thousand pieces of flooring, you do what you did with the chainsaw, you get confident. Yep. Right. And I smashed my thumb so bad that I knew I was at the coffee shop. was before it was before we moved in. So we are still living in a house, maybe four blocks away. Kent Boucher (25:36.982) I'm gonna start feel lightheaded again. Nicolas Lirio (25:46.822) And I grabbed my thumb. I knew it was going to be painful. know that the pain comes real soon. Right. And I grab it and I'm like, babe, we got to get to the house right now. And I didn't have the guts to look at it. And I get to the house and we go to the bathroom to wash it off. And I look at it and I get lightheaded and I fall onto the toilet. Yeah, I literally like golly, I had I kind of fall. Not quite. But I saw I felt my vision kind of blur and get narrow. And when I finally looked at my thumbs, Travis Frank (26:07.586) Bye. Kent Boucher (26:15.438) Something about nails, it's just ugh. Travis Frank (26:18.862) I've had a couple of those where you feel that and you know, you're potentially going to pass out. need to sit down and you get lightheaded. You're sweating and just, my gosh. Yeah, that nails though. mean, that's a good one right there. Hey, back to your, what did I think about Iowa? So what is Iowa? 97 % privately owned, I believe. That's all right. Yeah. So yeah, and a lot of other states when it comes to public lands, Kent Boucher (26:31.758) That's a good one. Kent Boucher (26:40.503) That's right. Travis Frank (26:47.07) You just have a lot more places to go. So your public lands are great. You just don't have that many of them. Right? That's the reality. yeah. So as a bird hunter. No, we didn't. But I've hunted Iowa before. And I've hunted public lands before and I've harvested. Kent Boucher (26:58.988) We didn't hunt any public land while you were... Kent Boucher (27:08.214) Well, the place I wanted to go with you turns out you can't hunt. It was this huge remnant prairie that I thought would have been fun to go there. Travis Frank (27:15.456) it. Well, thanks for not taking. Yeah. So I've had some great success in the past hunting Iowa and the numbers in Iowa for peasants and then even quail the last couple years have been really strong. And thing though is that you just don't have a lot of public access. So if you know a farmer in Iowa that has habitat, there's most likely going to be a lot of birds there. There's a reason Iowa used to be the pheasant capital of the world, right? It used to be. better than South Dakota. That's crazy. Nicolas Lirio (27:47.34) better than South Dakota is right now. Travis Frank (27:49.558) I wasn't alive back then. But I been told that that used to be the Mecca for pheasant hunting in America, Iowa. And then Kent Boucher (28:01.078) So Ron, Ron share. He's from Iowa, right? Did he? Did he reminisce about those days? Travis Frank (28:09.036) yeah, we were just talking about it a couple weeks ago. He stopped in my office. He goes and he likes to wax poetically about times gone by. It's kind of you two. You were brilliant about it. Yeah, he likes to pass some wisdom down. But he goes, you know, I was thinking about going back to Iowa and filming an episode down there. Calling it going back home. You know, and he's just sitting there thinking about it. He's like, but you know what? Alex Haugen (28:20.942) Ron doesn't. Travis Frank (28:39.69) don't think there's any birds there anymore. I don't know that there's anything to hunt where I grew up. So maybe that wouldn't be a very good show. And I said, Well, actually, that might be a great show. Yeah, because there's not. I shouldn't say this, that I'm not gonna say absolutes. But there's very few people in America that don't have a memory of a great wild place that no longer exists. They can all probably say, I hunted this once, but it doesn't exist here anymore. Kent Boucher (29:16.214) Do some of those places. Yeah, you hunted out at my my family's farm. pointed it out to both of you guys, you know where we're walking right now. There used to be a pond. Travis Frank (29:25.71) Hmm. My favorite place on earth where I grew up and really was touched by wildlife and wild places. Right now there's about 600 homes and no wild creatures on it. Yeah. Concrete, beautiful grass and houses. The ponds have been moved. Water was routed off of it. I mean, it just like it just doesn't look anything like it. The hills that were there got, you know, moved around a little bit and Just to think that if you didn't see it back then, you have no idea what it ever looked like and it will never look like that again. That's terrible. Kent Boucher (30:05.006) Yeah, it is. Yeah, I think that would be a super powerful episode if he did that. Even if he did that, you know, just went up to the house and be like, Hey, you know, it's like a cul-de-sac neighborhood. I used to hunt here. it be okay if I I walk? Yeah, you know, just to illustrate the the absurdity of what has happened to Travis Frank (30:10.54) Well, you'd driving through neighborhoods and filming. mean, know, on TV. Nicolas Lirio (30:13.646) What you gonna sh- Nicolas Lirio (30:30.966) And if you could show a map of where the prayer used to be and what's there now, and if you could do that in five or six areas and be like, starting to seem not like a coincidence, you know, and and but I wouldn't. mean, I think there's a lot of blame on urban sprawl when people blame. I get it, because when concrete's put down, you can't put it's a lot more effort to put prairie back down on concrete than it is on corn and beans. But I think it's like blaming golf courses for for the water issues. I'm like, yeah, yeah, OK, yes, there is some there is some there is a little truth to that. But we would that's not to blame. You know, if we. Yeah, and so I but I do think it would be interesting, especially if you went to place to place to place and ended up being corn, being corn, being urban sprawl. You know, I think that would be a fantastic. Kent Boucher (31:10.296) to drop in the bucket. Travis Frank (31:22.424) Well, we have 20 minutes of content to film in a 30 minute show. That's how works. I don't know that you're going to keep somebody entertained for 20 minutes of showing them another neighborhood, another neighborhood and industrial park, another neighborhood. Right. Kent Boucher (31:36.174) We got into quite a few birds while you were with us. Man, they were flushing wild. Now some places that made sense to me. I hunt a handful of times every year. do more deer hunting than I do pheasant hunting usually, but I got a couple bird dogs, I get out. This was the most wild flushing. Like that first night we went out at my place. Nicolas Lirio (31:59.278) Does that mean they were flushing Kent Boucher (32:04.856) I mean, we saw a bunch of birds, but they were flushing like hundreds of yards early. And I know for a fact, were the first, well, I think I know for a fact, maybe a trespasser came through or something at some point, but we were the first ones to hunt the farm. And those birds were flushing way early. And again, when we were up at Hoxie, same deal. And when we were, The southernmost place we hunted, think the first group of pheasants that got up on us, were maybe, they were just outside of range. think they were all hens, but they also flushed kind of early on us. Travis Frank (32:47.893) My take on that the first Place that we hunted on your family farm. Yeah, there's habitat there But that habitat that's thick enough to hold them to where they feel safe to let us get close and hopefully let us walk by there wasn't a wide enough swath Enough of it. You know for that many of them to hold and one one goes they're all like Yeah, that particular piece you have that have there wasn't wasn't yes Kent Boucher (33:14.83) Well, and we were coming down from the top of the. Travis Frank (33:18.08) They saw us coming. It was December. And at that time of the year, they've they're not only surviving past us, they've got other wild creatures trying to eat them too. Everything wants to eat those birds. They're delicious. So those particular birds on your property, they did have habitat, but they knew that they couldn't survive danger. So they had to get out of it. And they did that well in advance and they did a great job. we did. Yeah. Kent Boucher (33:47.886) for one quail, right? Travis Frank (33:49.506) So I had, we saw the, the Covey of quail and we knew that they were there. Yep. And our plan to pinch to come around cameras in place, everything. We're going to see this quail erupt on your property where you learn to hunt. That's right. My priority was to see you walk up and get a quail to arise. A rooster flew 10 feet over my head while we were doing that. And I never pulled the trigger because I was so focused on making sure that We got you on your family farm, flushing a covey of wild bobwhite quail. So that was the only rooster that presented a shot and he got a free pass because I didn't want to ruin anything for what was to come. And it worked out because you did harvest a wild bobwhite quail off your family farm, which I think is cool. Nicolas Lirio (34:36.32) You harvested that? I thought you harvested two that. Travis Frank (34:39.522) Nope, I never know. That was sick. Bush. Yeah. And then the other properties that we went to, you guys had hunted them a week prior. And even though you hunted them one time, a wild pheasant is not a dumb creature, especially in December. So opening day, you're going to have dumb birds. By the second day you walk out there, they know really quickly and wise and up. Kent Boucher (34:50.242) Yeah Travis Frank (35:06.446) Yeah, they don't stay dumb for days and weeks on end and slowly become wise. It happens really quickly. So the fact that half of their buddies were shot. Yeah. And the ones that made it out of they knew that they couldn't stick around and find out. They survived the first round for a reason and they a couple of them held close enough to get a shot but it was a little more challenging to get close to them. Oh yeah. And you had bigger pieces of habitat. we were able to get closer to birds because they felt and in a pheasant, their their first line to escape is to run. Second, they're going to hold tight and hope that you go by. Third would be to fly because that's the most likely way that they're going to get taken. They they just that's their last resort is to fly. So if they have room to run, they're going to run. Yeah. If they think they're safe, it's thick enough, they'll hold tight. give you a chance and that's where a good dog comes into play. we we found some birds but yeah yeah they just Nicolas Lirio (36:08.504) Well, we flushed two hens, like a perfect flush and one that I walked right up on. I mean, I don't hunt enough. I'm not a good shot, but I did have it in my sights, but it ended up being a hen. Kent Boucher (36:23.502) You shot both those hens. Just kidding. Travis Frank (36:26.542) You Nicolas Lirio (36:28.017) It flew directly away from me, so I had many seconds to line up those sites, you know what I mean? On its butt. But I only, I think I only shot it one rooster and it was over by the wedding grounds where my family has these wedding grounds. Travis Frank (36:41.889) yeah, right by this pond. Where you got married. Nicolas Lirio (36:43.98) Yeah, where I got my brother got married, my sister got married there. I hope my younger sisters get married there one day. is a bunch of my cousins have gotten married there. is an unbelievable spot. Travis Frank (36:54.286) overlooking because would it be to the west you've got that low area with the pond. I mean, it's just beautiful. Nicolas Lirio (37:01.02) yeah, yeah, we we we I mean, it's hard to describe being surrounded in September by golden Indian grass. Wow. You know, the sun is beating down on the pond and you can almost see a reflection and someone is like committing union is as my dad said, they're committing union. And but when we were out there, there was a rooster that flushed, but it like. I think I shot at it basically. So you guys had something to show on the show. I was never going to hit that. It was way over there. Travis Frank (37:37.582) would say if that thing fell I would have been forever impressed with you. I didn't take the gun off my shoulder. And it was closer to me than it was to you. Was it? Yes, when he was shooting I was like... Confidence! Kent Boucher (37:42.094) That was a tough one. Kent Boucher (37:50.83) I must admit if I ever told you guys, but I squeezed the trigger and I realized I didn't have a shell Travis Frank (37:58.726) You were further away than me! were the furthest down the line! This was in the middle! Kent Boucher (38:02.08) No, it flushed. Swooped past Nick. Nicolas Lirio (38:06.111) that's right, it did go up and around. Kent Boucher (38:08.074) I could have, if I had been less negligent, which I guess I was very safe, I was a very safe hunter, it was impossible for me to shoot anybody. Travis Frank (38:18.284) Right now the birds are sitting there and then let me tell you there's this guy he was on here and he was close that's the only one I really was concerned about but I wasn't really actually concerned about it because I've seen him around here a lot. I didn't think I had anything. And so he didn't even have any shells okay and then I flew across his buddy. He wasn't going to hit me but he shot anyway you should have seen the look on his face and then there was this guy holding this thing on his shoulder and he was following me in the air and then there's another guy who was just. Kent Boucher (38:30.222) He's safe. Travis Frank (38:47.704) didn't take his gut up. Kent Boucher (38:48.8) It was fun, I wanna do it again. Nicolas Lirio (38:50.766) I don't understand why all my friends are dead. Travis Frank (38:54.976) Easy, but let me tell you I was hiding in the grass and there was this creature sniffing really hard Staring at me I felt like that thing was gonna get me but never came in he just stood there And I didn't do anything and he didn't do anything and finally these three y'all who's walking up they're talking and talking Nicolas Lirio (39:03.246) That would be a Nicolas Lirio (39:17.064) That would actually I've never thought about having like a cartoon from the birds. Travis Frank (39:20.878) I've always wanted to do an episode from the dogs What the dog thinks about their hand or their their haunted like telling me he keeps beeping me but I'm telling you the birds are over here I can smell them Kent Boucher (39:23.032) perspective. Kent Boucher (39:28.716) think you're gonna have owls. Nicolas Lirio (39:36.174) Have Al voice Kent Boucher (39:37.71) Let's hear your best voice. Yeah, too daisy. Let's hear it. Travis Frank (39:40.504) days. Alex Haugen (39:41.188) Yeah, am I supposed to do daisy? I gotta think of a good one. just thinking of Daisy's personality. Travis Frank (39:49.824) Well, I've always thought when her tail's up and she's going away, that's like the middle finger as she's running away. Alex Haugen (39:56.3) You should put a GoPro on her like during the show. You could start a YouTube channel. Travis Frank (39:59.712) yeah would be or you well it first used to do those the go pros back then were bad were they didn't have an image stabilization in it my god you wanted to vomit if you watch the video because it was Nicolas Lirio (40:00.067) that Alex Haugen (40:12.718) I've seen the video of the dog that has the front camera like the those 360 cameras and it's pointed at them and like point five like grabbing grabbing a bone or something I'll find Travis Frank (40:23.01) Running around. Nicolas Lirio (40:26.069) cutest thing I've Travis Frank (40:28.984) You know what? I don't think I know because they go running face first. That's true. nastiest thickest stuff out there. Nicolas Lirio (40:33.806) yeah, well what you need is you need to have a chicken ride the dog and put the GoPro on the chicken's head because it's got that you know head stable. Kent Boucher (40:43.182) What do they call that in the gimbal? Nicolas Lirio (40:45.922) Yeah, but yeah, chickens are like a natural gimbal or something. That's what I heard. don't know. Travis Frank (40:50.499) like Alex Haugen (40:50.818) this. Kent Boucher (40:51.406) Yeah. Alex Haugen (40:54.254) Who wants it? my one. Nicolas Lirio (40:58.03) yeah. Okay, so... Alex Haugen (41:00.494) So then it starts, so then it starts and everything. Travis Frank (41:02.37) brought it Nicolas Lirio (41:03.874) That's good. It just shows the dog's face and what I really I really like when they hook those cameras up to to people's faces. Kent Boucher (41:10.965) Yeah Alex Haugen (41:12.527) There's that guy that watches trains that has like you can see his face Kent Boucher (41:16.706) Remember the video with what's his name Frankie something? Travis Frank (41:19.982) Did you guys redo your website lately? Yeah. It looks great. Thank you. Yeah, look at that. Wow. Nicolas Lirio (41:32.742) We are actually so for everyone listening currently Riley and I are working on a studio section in our office so we can film consistently and have a TV screen so we can pull up stuff and people are talking about it. You know I don't know it's hard to do that while you're you know hosting. Yeah but I think it would be I think it would be Travis Frank (41:52.366) be really got enough. We got enough talent around your farm that there's a of us. You guys are you are so unique. I don't think you realize how unique you are. Because not only do you have the knowledge, you have the ability to present it. And you have the ability to entertain and you're real. Nicolas Lirio (41:55.95) Talent's a big word. Alex Haugen (42:13.41) Just kind words flying everywhere. Travis Frank (42:18.54) So all those things make it enjoyable to listen to you. But I'm also learning things when I listen to you. Kent Boucher (42:24.216) Good, thanks for saying that. You know, the best part of all this is getting to meet people like yourself. And we had... Nicolas Lirio (42:25.954) Very kind of you. Alex Haugen (42:32.007) They're doing the Midwest, he's doing the Midwest slapback. Travis Frank (42:32.194) Come on Kent Boucher (42:37.902) Appreciate it. Kent Boucher (42:42.158) I was thinking this earlier, know, that hunting, that those few days that you were able to come down with Zach, and we're good friends with Zach now, was just texting him yesterday and, man, yeah, he is. Got some plugs, I think. But just, you know, I thinking back, like, I will always remember those few days of hunting. Those were so much fun. I mean, even from the, you know, the, Travis Frank (42:53.742) Is he planning some stuff soon? Travis Frank (43:09.976) the stress of trying to make sure you get a pheasant. Kent Boucher (43:12.686) Yeah, just and I'm gonna I'm gonna preview something here We won't tell you what exactly happened, but you're gonna want to watch the episode the grand finale was awesome Yeah at the end and we worked hard for the birds we got and the dogs were very hard and One of the most special things other than spending time with you guys hunting was my oldest dog Theo Which I really wish we could have done a gundog profile on Theo He has kind of a cool story, but we did one on Tess my female Nicolas Lirio (43:25.656) The dogs were talking. Kent Boucher (43:42.638) Theo is old like let's see. Yeah, he just turned 11 last week and He when we got on those quail at the very last 10 minutes of light He was a young dog. do you do you guys remember seeing him like getting on on point on those quail? I hadn't seen him like that in a few years I've always wondered about like the fall off for a bird dog because he's my he's the dog that I literally learned to hunt with. You know, he he's why I started hunting at all. I got this dog and it's like we're going to learn this together, you know? And so it's my first time through with this and I don't know for another hunters or read, you know, other hunters perspectives on this. So the last time we took him out or whatever. And it's not I mean, I think probably for some dogs is just a fall off. You know, like it's. Year 10, they're good. Year 11, boom, they're done. But for him, it's been hit or miss for the last few years. Like one year while we were out hunting, all of a sudden he just screamed out in pain. And I thought for sure he got bit by something. So I'm like looking all over, feeling all over his legs. No, he just had a muscle cramp. You know, he's just such an old man that like his back leg, yeah, he's like screaming. I mean, so he's been old for a few years. He does a lot of. Travis Frank (45:05.804) to a stick or something. Kent Boucher (45:07.574) No, there was no wound at all. mean, nothing, not a picker, not a, you know, not a. Nicolas Lirio (45:18.062) No pun- Alex Haugen (45:19.662) Just disclaimer. Kent Boucher (45:21.999) But the point, you know, he's been doing a lot of wind pointing the last few years because he, you he doesn't, he's not up there in the front all the time, but just seeing him do that last hunt and just. Travis Frank (45:32.152) So every dog that I've every hunting dog that I've ever been around, it's not their want or drive that goes away. It's their body that prevents them from being if they can do it, they want to go and they want to keep going. Kent Boucher (45:42.626) That's what it is for him. Kent Boucher (45:46.902) he always wants to go. It's just he's. Travis Frank (45:49.57) Sometimes the the heart says go, but the body says no. That's a bird dog in a nutshell. Their heart is big and they always want to go. And it's just a matter of the body can do it. We were in Wyoming two falls ago. it'll be two falls this September. And my dog, she just gets revved up. So we got from Minnesota all the way to Wyoming. It's a full day drive. Kent Boucher (45:54.136) That's right. Travis Frank (46:18.254) And she knows when we go somewhere for that far, so she's going to go for a ride. Except for when I let her out of the box, she came out hot and that terrain is so rocky and so hard on her paws. It's not like soil in Minnesota. That's mostly just grass and dirt. It's hard mountain rock. And she ripped her paws up the first hour. Kent Boucher (46:23.907) Yeah. Travis Frank (46:45.154) because she just was going so fast and so hard. But she didn't stop hunting. As soon as the hunt was over. And she knew that we were done hunting. She could be 10 feet away and she would not walk 10 feet to my command. Her feet hurt so bad. I lifted her up, put her in the kennel, fed her and she curled up and laid there in pain the next morning driving on gravel. She starts wimpering because she knows we're gonna hunt Nicolas Lirio (47:10.06) Yeah Kent Boucher (47:13.25) Yeah. Travis Frank (47:14.31) I drop her down because she wants to go. All right, let's see how this goes. She hunts and hunts and we get to the end and she knows the hunts over and she's not gonna take one step because she knows the hunt is over. But she's willing to power through the pain because she wants it that bad. She wants to go that bad. And obviously there are certain situations where with you want to do what's best for your dog. Yeah, totally. So Kent Boucher (47:19.49) Got a whole offseason to recover. Kent Boucher (47:40.888) save them. Nicolas Lirio (47:44.32) Is that just like it's a I mean obviously biologically they want to hunt but do you think there's like a pain override almost like adrenaline for us like you cut yourself real bad that adrenaline is rushing you don't really feel the pain and or do you think they're feeling the pain it's just they want to hunt that. Travis Frank (47:59.81) They want it so bad. Interesting. It's the drive. Mom and dad gave it to them. That's something that we can put them in situations where a dog can build that drive by rewarding them for that experience, whether that's food or praise or whatever, you can reward a dog and build on that. But ultimately, they're the canine that comes from mom and dad. Generally, when people train hunting dogs, they're they're talking about really just training obedience and having that dog come with and know the rules of what they're supposed to do. And it's really, should be just obedience training more or less because mom and dad already gave the instinct to hunt. You're just teaching them to hunt together with you. So it's, that's just obedience training. You need to come here, stand still, go with me. And that's really hunting dog, bird dog training in a nutshell. And that's different for the breeds that are flushing dogs. Their job is to find it, get on it, flush that bird up so you can get a shot. Pointing dogs, they're to hold that point till you get in and you get close enough. Because my dog, if she was flushing them, sometimes she's out 400 yards away. I'm not going to get a shot at that. But she's going to pin that running bird down. And when she goes on point, I get a little alert on my watch that says Daisy's on point 420 yards southwest. All right, guys. We go that way. Yeah, you know and sometimes when you're in beautiful places like Wyoming She's on point you come up on this canyon and you see your dog on on point. You're like I'm in paradise right now Look around right now. Is anything more beautiful than this and then? You see a cubby rise fly through the mountains are like, oh, I never want to leave the mountains. It's amazing Kent Boucher (49:37.55) That's right. Guys! Kent Boucher (49:48.206) Yeah. Beautiful. Nick had a question. We were putting the outline together for today. Every now and then we do. Well. Yeah. Travis Frank (49:54.789) you guys do outline? Nicolas Lirio (49:58.318) Well, honestly, it was like, okay, we've interviewed Travis two other times. What do we want to talk about that's actually useful for people? Travis Frank (50:04.366) Well that's kind of what I was thinking, like what value can I bring you guys? That's how I feel as a guy. Kent Boucher (50:09.582) So Nick had a question about if you had to leave Minnesota, where would you live? And I think I know what the answer is, but Nick has a different idea. So I want to hear what you say, Travis, before we... Travis Frank (50:28.254) I want to hear what you say. Okay, I love Western North Dakota, you get a mix of the wide open prairie. I love fishing as well. And there's good fishing out there. So I feel like Western North Dakota, but the more time I spend in the mountains, the more I just really, really enjoy them. So I'm thinking like, I could see Montana. Nicolas Lirio (50:30.094) No, no, no. Kent Boucher (50:56.206) What's your number one? Travis Frank (50:59.176) realistically probably western north dakota uh... and think i don't know that i think about what Kent Boucher (51:11.128) I think in previous conversations you had said North Dakota. Nicolas Lirio (51:16.098) man, I Travis Frank (51:17.65) It's the opportunities that exist out there and the lack of people. There's just not that many people and I think that's what makes it so great. I just love the freedom from wide open spaces and I love all that those areas have to offer. Kent Boucher (51:32.174) When you retire, whatever that looks like for you, do think you'll leave Minnesota or do think you'll stay? Travis Frank (51:37.922) I don't know. My wife and I would say yes to that. know, the cost of living right now is insane. Who knows what it's going to be if I can ever retire. But I just I feel like it would be hard for us to leave our family. Yeah, it's very tough. Alex Haugen (51:39.374) I feel like I could see you moving to Montana. Nicolas Lirio (51:44.396) be a billionaire to move to Montana. Kent Boucher (51:58.862) If all your kids said... Kent Boucher (52:04.846) We're gonna move wherever you guys move. That's where we're gonna choose to settle down if you want to move or you would Would would you would you leave Minnesota if you knew all your kids would follow you to where wherever you'd go? Travis Frank (52:11.032) But you talked about it too. Travis Frank (52:18.348) Yeah, think so. We love it here. We've got friends here. We've got family in Minnesota. I grew up here. But I want, I crave a simpler life really badly. Right now, single income household, I'm providing what we need for our family. And so that's very important to me. But I really desire a simpler life. This area, it's so busy. We're right in the middle of it. You can't avoid it. It's every day there you look at our family calendar. It's packed. I didn't have that growing up. You didn't you probably didn't have that growing up. I wish sometimes I think if we if we go live in the middle of nowhere, we wouldn't be so inclined to just say yes to every invite from friends and granted it's a blessing to have all the opportunities that we have. But the the pace you know you talk about The ruthless elimination of hurry. Nicolas Lirio (53:21.324) Did you read that? Yeah! man. Yeah. Fantastic. Travis Frank (53:24.455) I know and it's it's true. It's it's really a sickness in this country. Well, we Nicolas Lirio (53:31.628) We know some fantastic realtors in southern. Travis Frank (53:36.27) You guys are Nicolas Lirio (53:40.636) By golly, it's a simpler one. Kent Boucher (53:42.094) Come get poisoned with us. What are friends for? We'll be installing your water filter. Alex Haugen (53:44.11) No, I'm listening. Travis Frank (53:44.27) Nick Well, I don't I don't want to joke about that obviously you guys have been talking about water quality in Iowa We have it here in Minnesota. It's it's happening everywhere. This is farm country up here, too Where I I grew up in Western, Minnesota was born on a farm we still have family out in Western, Minnesota and I still Look at the landscape and and want to do the best for it. I don't have any control over that though, you know Kent Boucher (54:13.868) You know the changes are are fairly don't want to make it too simple, but they aren't rocket science to figure Kent Boucher (54:26.962) And I think that's why you do what you do with the conversations you have on the flush and both the show and podcast and your social posts too. And that's why we do what we do is because I think the fixes are simple enough. We just need enough people to know what the fixes are. Because I think almost anyone can see that there are simple fixes well and fairly easily implemented. And I think once we get enough of the people in the places where we care about to be awakened to that, then we got a real shot at fixing a lot of those ills. Travis Frank (55:09.39) Yeah, I think people listening to the show would would know pretty well how you guys feel about the landscape and what you've learned about it. You give information to help people make decisions. It's then our job as listeners that digest this. We have conversations like I don't I don't own land that I can implement this stuff. But I know people that do. know, and when the conversations come up and it can be casual, but If you're able to have these conversations with other people, you don't know where that might lead at some point. You know, we were talking earlier today about we're living in this age of information. All these podcasts out there, all this information, you can search and find out whatever you want. But then it's what do do with that information? And that's really our, I think our job is to try to help people to, to feel empowered to let their information speak and apply it to family gatherings or if Kent Boucher (56:11.252) Well, it's hard to know who, what voices to listen to and something that I've appreciated about you is you've been to so many of the different states in bird country, right? You've hunted upland birds from Alaska to what maybe, have you been down into the Southeast to do some quail hunting? Travis Frank (56:35.274) I have not hunted quail down in south east well Mississippi but yeah yeah Kent Boucher (56:41.134) That's quite a range, Alaska to Mississippi. Nicolas Lirio (56:44.686) Just to be in all of them. Travis Frank (56:48.578) I don't know. don't. Wild maybe Nicolas Lirio (56:51.628) not wide thing not to know about Alex Haugen (56:54.08) Are you are you? Kent Boucher (56:54.798) assignment. You gotta sit down with your wife and Alex Haugen (56:58.05) Well, what do you what do you classify like being in like when I like to count how many states I've been to I say Nicolas Lirio (57:03.694) off the road and out of the airport. Alex Haugen (57:05.762) For at least like, I always say for at least an hour. Nicolas Lirio (57:08.682) that's probably true. Like, if you stop at a restaurant, I'd call that. Alex Haugen (57:12.068) Because I would say I've been to 25 Travis Frank (57:14.166) Left the airport you've been in that state. Yeah. Nicolas Lirio (57:16.83) But not but also you got to leave the road you can't be on the yeah Alex Haugen (57:19.374) That's why I would say 25 for me from driving through and then getting off and like staying there for at least an hour Kent Boucher (57:26.24) I don't know about the driving through thing. I like the idea of like getting out and actually putting your physical feet on a state and counting it. But you also get a pretty good sampling of it. Like think of, I know the people say this about Nebraska, you gotta get off 80 to see what Nebraska has. Yeah, it's the most underrated state in my opinion. Travis Frank (57:43.022) desk is beautiful, by the way. I'd say Wyoming. Wanna go Wyoming. Nicolas Lirio (57:48.152) Wyoming's not underrated. Kent Boucher (57:49.982) I don't know, like it's- Travis Frank (57:51.433) sorry, Idaho. Nicolas Lirio (57:53.161) I don't Kent Boucher (57:53.656) Yeah. Alex Haugen (57:53.934) You know what state I thought was kind of cool driving through? New Mexico. I don't know what it was but just driving down the highway like Kent Boucher (58:00.256) if you're driving down the road you unless you go just like a little corner or something like you get to see quite a bit of the state yeah Nicolas Lirio (58:06.904) If you only hit the top little northeast corner of Iowa, you'd think it's one of greatest Alex Haugen (58:11.222) Yeah. Kent Boucher (58:11.672) Yeah, just said that. Yeah, if you just go through a little corner, I wouldn't count that. like if you're doing like Travis Frank (58:17.268) Hills in Nicolas Lirio (58:22.434) like Alex Haugen (58:26.254) There might be like an accent battle going on now or a dialect battle Travis Frank (58:30.168) No, no, no. Kent Boucher (58:30.894) They sound like they're hawking a luge or something. Travis Frank (58:33.544) Well, locals know how to pronounce something. There's this town in northern Minnesota on the border called Baudette. B-A-U-D-E-T-T-E. Everybody says Baudette unless you live there. If you live there, it's called Baudette. Baudette? Yeah, kind of like a bada. Kent Boucher (58:54.391) That's like like puri Iowa it's it's spelled Peoria, but everyone calls it puri Travis Frank (59:01.441) every state. Alex Haugen (59:01.934) There's a lot I love seeing professional athletes that are from somewhere else try to name names for Minnesota like Mademita or like even or no gets people like they say or ono or something Nicolas Lirio (59:12.656) everything here is that like Native American stuff Alex Haugen (59:14.702) Some some is French. I know like I don't sell. Yeah, I know down south a lot of them are a lot of towns are French Not just Vikings the Minnesota Vikings Travis Frank (59:26.126) You're talking to the number one bike over there too, by the way. Kent Boucher (59:30.508) So is the whole Viking thing, is it just because there's so many Norwegian and Swedish? Alex Haugen (59:36.13) yeah there is some of the scandinavian immigrants Kent Boucher (59:39.022) There's no history of Vikings venturing this far inland. Alex Haugen (59:45.251) Not that I know of. I mean, all my ancestors are from Norway, that's just why I like the Vikings. Travis Frank (59:46.51) Yeah, I don't know. Travis Frank (59:51.554) Yeah, I'm probably the opposite polar opposites of Kent. So Kent goes back and researches all kinds of stuff. yeah. I couldn't tell you what happened yesterday. I only look forward. I'm always my wife. She's so interested in history and going to these places and I'm like, just want to go on a cool adventure. Yeah, I'm sorry. I think it's probably cool what they did, but I Nicolas Lirio (59:51.856) Interesting. Yeah. Alex Haugen (01:00:04.142) You know what though? Alex Haugen (01:00:17.682) I got a long, I love learning about my family history, especially in Norway. my grandma had a photographic memory, she wrote about, autobiography, that's about yourself. She wrote a whole thing about her childhood, up riding horse-drawn sleighs to school in Bemidji and everything. And then our old family members have an entire book about our family history from my great-grandfather, Gunnar who sailed here from Norway and then it talks about like in Norway you get your last name from the street that your farm is on so that's how my last name came about because we were on Haugen Road you know I love that stuff so you would like that too like old pictures of our family farm that we people still go back to to visit in Norway Kent Boucher (01:00:59.096) Yeah, that is awesome. Nicolas Lirio (01:01:06.946) that's important episode with Seth Warren. He's becoming a good bud of ours from Wisconsin. He has an unbelievable is an unbelievable story about his farm. was the Kent Boucher (01:01:19.623) www.savesethsfarmhouse.com Nicolas Lirio (01:01:22.104) Yeah, I mean, it was one of the first houses. Kent Boucher (01:01:25.154) made up website. Alex Haugen (01:01:26.479) I was just about to look that up. Nicolas Lirio (01:01:29.07) And he bought it to save this farm and it was the first woman owned farmland in Wisconsin and before it was. Kent Boucher (01:01:38.444) when Wisconsin was still a territory. Travis Frank (01:01:41.834) So a female purchased this property. Nicolas Lirio (01:01:44.524) Well, no, her and her husband went there and claimed it together. And then when it came time to write the name on the deed, she was like, well, wait a minute. He's always gone at work. I take care of the farm. And so they put her and she like went and argued that her name should be on the thing and she won. And yeah. And but not only that, there is a lot that happened between then and now. And he's like trying to save the farm. He's got the. ginormous, beautiful barn there. it's really cool. And that kind of stuff really interests me when you can really say like a real person was here and did a real thing. When you get back to Leif Erikson, I know he was real, like, it's too far for me. Kent Boucher (01:02:24.012) Yeah, yeah, think anything when you look at North America as a new world, and there is so much left to be discovered by Europeans coming here, there's a lot of sadness that comes with that, right? Death and disease for the native peoples here. Think of the atrocities committed by the conquistadors and even Chris Columbus. But the wonder of the old world, what we call the old world, Seeing what, how rich this country was and the diversity of this country, what it held just is something that captures my imagination as a curious person. know, if I had been with Lee Ferrickson and I was looking at, you know, New England area, I think is where they landed, wasn't it? Rhode Island, was it Canada? Nicolas Lirio (01:03:20.206) I wanna say it was Canada. I bet I could be wrong. Kent Boucher (01:03:24.748) But we know so little about it, you know, and just to be seeing all of this place and and it just fills me with. Nicolas Lirio (01:03:33.902) What do you think was the wildest animal they ran into here that they were just absolutely unprepared for? Because we don't have anything like a Kent Boucher (01:03:41.712) Travis Frank (01:03:43.694) I mean, probably, I don't know, at some point they got into Grizzlies. Kent Boucher (01:03:47.916) Yeah, I agree with you on grizzlies. I think bison were probably enough like cattle that it was like, whoa, those Nicolas Lirio (01:03:53.678) Yeah, but that would have been, what's up with the caribou and stuff? Kent Boucher (01:03:59.182) They have there's caribou in Europe. There's there's moose in Europe. So I think all the antlered stuff probably was Travis Frank (01:04:05.646) Maybe I'm outlying at some point too. mean, but they had to travel pretty far. Kent Boucher (01:04:10.414) strictly American I bet you're right with the grizzly I think maybe wild turkeys you know they're kind of wild looking you know they got the snood hanging off their face and that they're Travis Frank (01:04:21.782) I'm sure some of the animals for the first time was intriguing. But as far as a confrontation that you felt like you were the lesser of the two. Nicolas Lirio (01:04:33.262) the the guy he wrote I like I've seen in any of them Kent Boucher (01:04:38.85) Yeah, yeah, they at first it was it was a real curiosity for him and they they shot one and it took an unbelievable number of shots to take it down and it chased him while it was after they'd shot it several times it chased him into the river and It said you know by by our third site our third encounter with grizzlies. We had had our fill and and Yeah, I think just seeing an animal that's so in such a bad mood, know, a bad disposition like a group. Travis Frank (01:05:11.327) You see one and you know. Yeah, I don't mess with this. Nicolas Lirio (01:05:15.086) Do you ever listen to Ken's episode? It wasn't on our podcast, although we released it. What was his name? Kent Boucher (01:05:19.746) We aired it on. Jeremy Evans. Nicolas Lirio (01:05:23.714) You ever heard? you. Travis Frank (01:05:24.846) Did he was he survived? Did he write a book about it too? Yeah. Kent Boucher (01:05:26.594) He survived. Okay. Yeah, I mean, though, you there's a lot and there's not it's not like there's an easy bearer attack and I wanted to diminish anyone else's experience as far as as far as you survive that. It's it's pretty Travis Frank (01:05:43.764) Bears, Mount lions and grizzly dude. you go. Nicolas Lirio (01:05:48.374) Yeah, and his face obviously looks like it was lot better, and they mostly fixed it, but it was really a number done. Kent Boucher (01:05:56.59) and think both eye sockets were actually broken one eye was out and the other eye was pushed behind his forehead and so to see he literally had to pick his eyeball up with his fingers and and you know look around while he's hiking Alex Haugen (01:06:10.29) my god. Nicolas Lirio (01:06:12.344) He says that I'm like Nicolas Lirio (01:06:20.174) He crawled for like 10 hours or something like that. His trucks he was alone. Kent Boucher (01:06:25.506) Yeah, that must be the bike that he had in the pack when he got attacked. Nicolas Lirio (01:06:29.07) Remember him saying, I remember him saying like, well, it was like, well, yeah, I mean, the, the grizz, that's terrible, but there's nothing compared to the PTSD that came afterwards. And he talked about that. Alex Haugen (01:06:39.652) I mean, yeah, how would you go? I mean, how do you go back out to you? Nicolas Lirio (01:06:42.87) at work and then he would wake up under his desk like swinging a broom at people that were trying to help him and he'd be like Kent Boucher (01:06:48.856) which has happened. He's raised a lot of money for PTSD treatments for people who've gone through similar experiences. And yeah, quite a credible hunter when I interviewed him. I knew he was like, he's probably pretty experienced hunter. That doesn't even like he's my goodness. Yeah. Travis Frank (01:07:00.713) They're not 7MS. Travis Frank (01:07:09.513) really expensive. When so we were bird hunting up in Alaska a couple years ago. And the first thing when we got there, was curious about the bears. Some stories for sure. But they had a video from a friend that got charged. And I wanted to wrap my head around just how much time do you have if a bear charges you? Yeah, you don't have any. It's one 1000 to 1000, maybe 300,000. But otherwise, Kent Boucher (01:07:18.476) He's got some. Kent Boucher (01:07:31.598) Yeah, I'm done. Travis Frank (01:07:37.28) you're dead. you don't carry bear spray anywhere but right here on your chest available or on your belt loop available. can't be in a pouch. can't unzip it. You can't do anything like that. don't have that. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Nicolas Lirio (01:07:55.214) And just staple his head back together. Just horrifying. They did like I saw this video where they hooked up a big thing that kind of looked like a big animal. Right. And it was roughly the size of a horse ish and they would put people in a spot and then they would move. It was like on a track and they would move it to the person at the speed of these different animals and. Travis Frank (01:07:58.571) Unbelievable. Kent Boucher (01:08:18.065) yeah. Travis Frank (01:08:22.114) determine your reaction time? Nicolas Lirio (01:08:23.912) And to show you how fast they come at you and they did they did a bear well they also did a hippopotamus that was terrifying because they're the biggest fattest they got the short little stupid legs and then they run like easy yeah and they run like as fast Alex Haugen (01:08:35.416) Those are cra- Kent Boucher (01:08:38.43) I say they're probably yeah, I would say that they're they are similar in the Grizzlies were in the sense that they have a they're in a bad mood like it seems like like hippos Alex Haugen (01:08:46.957) I'm how powerful their jaws are too. It's insane. They can crush like pumpkins and watermelons. No problem. Nicolas Lirio (01:08:54.418) Well, I would I would put it I mean because they're like second cousins to pigs I feel that way about pigs to pigs are kind of like do to do I'm just you're around me get out of here, know, and it's like Kent Boucher (01:09:03.886) Well, especially some of those Russian boars that you see in Europe. Those things are scary. Travis Frank (01:09:07.662) They're just trying to Yep. They're trying to survive. Yeah, everything out there in the wild is trying to survive That's all they're trying to eat food. Alex Haugen (01:09:15.374) If we were being attacked all the time, we'd probably be pissed off too. Kent Boucher (01:09:19.822) There's lot of truth that have you ever had a bad bear moment like where you like Travis Frank (01:09:24.248) no i'm fortunate and not been close on rattlesnakes that's the only thing that i really you you do have Kent Boucher (01:09:30.798) I get the, you know, as you know, I follow the hunting world pretty closely. I somebody I'm going to compare this to motorcyclists. A guy that I played football with in college said there's two types of motorcycle riders. Those who have been in an accident and those who will get in an accident. It's going to happen. Yeah. And just from what the people that I watch, you spend enough time hunting in in. Alaska it's not that they end up being attacked but they end up having a close call where where they got the bear spray out in time or for whatever reason the bear just bluff charged them and and they went they went another way now I do think I've heard that grizzlies are different in Alaska than they are in the lower 48 and there's a lot of debate and speculation on that I've heard Travis Frank (01:10:27.182) as they're being harvested. Kent Boucher (01:10:27.912) People for people who have expert level experience on both sides of that exact issue tell me, you know, conflicting takes on that like now that's not that's that's a myth or no, I've definitely seen a difference, you know, and and the take is usually somewhere along the lines of if they say there is a difference, the bears in Alaska can be hunted. So they respect humans as a threat. Whereas the bears, grizzlies in lower 48 are not allowed to be hunted. And so they do not, they do no longer view humans as a, as a. Travis Frank (01:11:07.154) Some people talk about that with wolves too. You know, here in Minnesota, we have in the lower 48 more wolves here in Minnesota than anywhere else. Kent Boucher (01:11:16.462) It's the only place in the lower 48 that never lost their wolves, right? Travis Frank (01:11:23.534) I don't think so. Yeah, don't think they ever did. But we have a lot of wolves here. I hunt in the forest up near the Canadian border. Kent Boucher (01:11:28.16) stock. Kent Boucher (01:11:36.049) these handlers right here. Alex Haugen (01:11:37.422) You sent me picture earlier this year when you were deer hunting up north and you found the carcass. that was those ones. Travis Frank (01:11:45.134) of a deer. Yeah, that's big. That's a big deer right there. I see wolves pretty regularly. And I, I did not used to growing up see them regularly. The first time I saw a wolf, I remember, basically, it stopped me in my tracks. Oh, yeah, you know, and it was it sat down in this big pasture, open grass, and it just sat down and it knew we just had this eye to eye contact. It was probably 250 yards away. It just looked at me and I'm like, man, that's a big dog. They are beautiful. yeah. But I've since seen them very close. I've seen packs of them. I've come across many wool. Alex Haugen (01:12:17.368) They are beautiful creatures. Kent Boucher (01:12:26.984) So you think they get closer to you in Minnesota than if you were in Alaska where wolves are hunted all the time in Alaska? Travis Frank (01:12:36.14) Yeah, I filmed a wolf hunt in Alaska quite a while ago. And those wolves did not tolerate our presence up there at all. They clearly knew they were being they knew they were being Kent Boucher (01:12:49.122) They knew they Nicolas Lirio (01:12:51.278) in the Philippines. Dog packs are a real issue. know, they kind of they kind of gang up and they hang out in these bigger cities. But it's an issue easily as long as you're not like a small child by yourself. And even if you're a small child, they teach you you turn around quickly and raise your hand like you're going to throw a rock and they will scatter. You do that around here. Dogs aren't going to scatter. You know, but. Alex Haugen (01:13:18.291) They probably think you're throwing something to them. They probably get excited. Pizza? Nicolas Lirio (01:13:20.32) Yeah Travis Frank (01:13:23.598) Well, I grew up as a trapper because out in western Minnesota that was part of life. Yeah. And so I learned I had a trapline then when I was old enough and I trapped the first coyote in our family. wow. That was a big deal. I called told my uncles and my grandpa and everyone was like, Whoa, you know, because it was red fox back then. And now coyotes are everywhere. Yeah. So you just kind of get numb to it. Well, I mean, I lip squeaked wolves right to me in the deer stand in northern Minnesota, you know, because that sounds like a little vole. They're opportunistic feeders. They're going to come over. And I mean, you bring a wolf 30 yards away and it's staring you down. Kent Boucher (01:14:07.948) That's pretty wild. Alex Haugen (01:14:08.674) They're menacing. They're just so incredibly smart. I know some people that have owned wolf farms in Montana and they talk about having to train the wolves and being the alpha of the pack. It's so intriguing to learn about that. Kent Boucher (01:14:24.779) Yeah. Travis Frank (01:14:25.268) Well, we're not that far a lot of our hunting dogs that we use, they're canines. Yeah, we're not that they're not that far removed from under so people want their dogs to be part of the family. And that's just the mindset. But that's what leads to dogs that jump all over the place, jump up into you, you know, crawl, they're just they're not they don't know their role in the pack in the wild world. The alpha mom, they teach the cubs, they teach the or you know, the pack really quick, because otherwise you don't survive out there. You know, and that's a canine, all of our dogs are canines. They are pack animals, they, they only know their role in the pack. And if you're not going to be a pack leader, they have to take that role and assume it. And so a lot of dog trainers, they try to help you understand, you are the alpha Yeah, you don't it doesn't mean you're just an a hole in your abusive. just means you have to leave and you have to hold them accountable. Because otherwise they think they need to take charge. yeah. You know, and so every single dog does not matter the breed. need a leader, a pack leader, and that's you. Nicolas Lirio (01:15:41.47) What about the Australian Shepherds or Minyazis? They're just super high energy, not aggressive, but aggressive with how much energy they have. If you establish that you're the Alpha, if someone else comes to your house, will they still lose their mind? Travis Frank (01:16:03.074) Some dogs are more protective. This is their space. This is my space. I'm going to protect it. Some breeds naturally are more protective of that. However, you are still the alpha. Your job is to teach and instruct. Excuse me and instruct that dog. And it's so we're just my wife and I were talking about this the other day because we went for a walk and there's this one particular dog on the road that always comes flying out and it's on a chain. comes flying out. And she's like, I would just get tired of that. And, you know, and this dog has been doing it for years. Yeah. And most people that have a dog that behaves a certain way. he's been that way forever. Can't teach an old dog new tricks. When I hear that I'm like, Kent Boucher (01:16:52.334) I'm about to teach your old dog a new trick right now. Travis Frank (01:16:54.74) There's no such thing as a can't teach an old dog new tricks. It's just laziness. It's just the person saying that I'm not going to try. That's all it is. You can teach a 12 year old dog the same thing you can teach a six month old dog. Yeah, that's back Kent Boucher (01:17:11.278) It's just Omega Nicholas Lirio type mentality, you know? Nicolas Lirio (01:17:11.393) and Nicolas Lirio (01:17:18.786) I don't have it in me to have a dog right now. I just don't. Kent Boucher (01:17:21.45) All right, here's a here's a dog question for Are you enough of a dog person? I'm gonna go ahead and tell you right now. I'm not My answer would be no to this question to where if you were only allowed to own like a little like a tiny little Travis Frank (01:17:24.654) Mm. Alex Haugen (01:17:38.51) Chihuahua rat terrier rat terrier Kent Boucher (01:17:41.14) Red turkeys are cool. Like a little like a like a house. We're not cool to their great. Yeah, they I mean, they track. They're like one of the best blood tracking dogs. But yeah, like like like a like a little designer, you know, five pound bulldog. Yeah, yeah, like a Frenchie or something like that. They are. Travis Frank (01:17:43.525) I'll get some stuff. Alex Haugen (01:17:47.342) A wiener I know I agree but would you own one? Kent Boucher (01:18:08.751) You're a working dog kind of guy. Are you are you the kind of dog person like man? I gotta have a dog and if all I get is a little you know What do they call? don't like this like a little yeah like a laugh Nicolas Lirio (01:18:20.238) called Lapdog. Alex Haugen (01:18:21.004) Yeah. Like little teddy bear dog. Travis Frank (01:18:21.548) Yeah. No, I'm not interested in that. Kent Boucher (01:18:24.97) So you would go no dog if if your only option was to own own like a Boy breed there Travis Frank (01:18:32.876) in that. I mean, I've never had an interest in that. And I don't know, I guess Nicolas Lirio (01:18:38.668) My wife wants a Courtney so bad. Alex Haugen (01:18:41.038) Corgis are so cute. Kent Boucher (01:18:41.902) Whenever I see a corgi I think dog farts. I just think that thing is little dog fart machine. Alex Haugen (01:18:44.088) Yeah Travis Frank (01:18:47.136) Well, I understand the companionship though. yeah, some people that dog yeah. Kent Boucher (01:18:49.688) for sure. Nicolas Lirio (01:18:52.206) out of the Alex Haugen (01:18:53.614) I feel like I would accidentally sit on a small dog though. Like I just could never have a small dog. Would you ever get like a boxer? Like one of those actual working dogs? Because I grew up with boxers my whole life. My entire family has had them. Nicolas Lirio (01:19:07.694) sister and brother-in-law had two boxers and they were wonderful. Alex Haugen (01:19:11.538) But they want to be basically inside of your skin all the time Kent Boucher (01:19:16.63) And they're lived. Nicolas Lirio (01:19:18.465) Yeah. Travis Frank (01:19:18.968) No. Alex Haugen (01:19:19.21) Well, it depends. I think it depends. Like I've had my boxer, one of my boxers now is 15. But like we've had boxers before that lived till maybe eight or nine. Nicolas Lirio (01:19:31.086) Their boxers were eight and they were like, yeah, this is a lot Alex Haugen (01:19:34.184) Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean that's that's very old for them like the fact but they also don't mature out of their puppy face till they're like four So they they stay they stay with that puppy energy for a lot for a long time Travis Frank (01:19:47.16) There's so many different breeds that I think have sort of I'll say I was at my vet last week. Yeah, and we were talking about my dog Daisy and she's like, we talk we talk about this at the office here because we have office dogs and everybody has a treat drawer and my dog comes running in and she goes one to the next to the next to the next. Kent Boucher (01:20:11.15) He's like trick or treat. Travis Frank (01:20:11.902) She knows I can tell you which one she's gonna go to in order and she does the same route every single day. Alex Haugen (01:20:18.456) pretend sometimes like she didn't get a treat to try and another one from somebody else. Kent Boucher (01:20:22.769) They're Travis Frank (01:20:24.03) She's very smart. Yeah. And so I've been telling everybody if you're gonna you don't need to give her one every day and if you're gonna just maybe break it up. Yeah, because it adds up. She's got to drop a couple of LBs. And they're like, no way. She's just perfect. And I said, I'm telling you, she's a little overweight and my vet is going to tell me the same thing when I take her in. So I tell my vet and she laughs about it. She's like, yeah, she should lose two pounds. Yeah, she's okay right now. But I would recommend and she said, Kent Boucher (01:20:35.118) But if you help me Alex Haugen (01:20:35.864) He's Travis Frank (01:20:52.958) you will you will be amazed that if well not gonna be amazed but she basically said vast majority of dogs in in America are overweight Alex Haugen (01:21:04.238) I think when people get a dog, they're not they're not prepared for how much they actually need to walk the dog or exercise the dog. Yeah. Travis Frank (01:21:13.1) also feed them over that most dogs are overfed and the stuff they eat. But if you are overfeeding your dog and they're overweight, usually you know, like let's say an average lifespan would be 12 years, the dog that doesn't get fed correctly is only gonna live 10. So you're you're basically cutting about two years off of your dog's life if you're overfeeding it. That's what she said. The studies show that it eliminates, you know, more than 10 % of their life by overfeeding them. They'd And my dog's a working dog, you know, she's going to run more than 30 miles in a day sometimes on a hard day. So she can't, you look at any runner out there on the Olympic field or track or whatever, they can't have extra weight and compete. And then she's not competing. But when it comes to hunting dogs, I've hunted behind a lot of different dogs and a lot of different trains and a lot of different breeds and people all love their dog. Yeah. Everybody loves their dog. Alex Haugen (01:22:14.836) You're gonna this is gonna get controversial here cuz I've seen some posts by by Instagram pages that do that take polls on this and there's some people in the comments they get up Yeah Travis Frank (01:22:24.098) that. yeah, that's because everyone's dog is like, I, I think that all dogs in the hunting space have Kent Boucher (01:22:33.71) All dogs go to heaven Alex Haugen (01:22:35.694) They have their unique abilities. Travis Frank (01:22:38.154) all have their own abilities and they all excel in different areas. don't really everyone's like, my dog does all this. Yeah, I might do all that. Okay. Yeah. But it doesn't sell in just one thing. So generally, you know, like you say an English pointer, sometimes if you're going on a quail hunt, I would take probably If it's a well trained dog with good genetics, I've seen English pointers outperform a lot of other breeds. They just have a one track mind and an ability that she's a she's a she's a poinsettia she's a German shorter pointer. She was an oops. Kent Boucher (01:23:09.89) So Alex Haugen (01:23:12.556) She's a point setter. Kent Boucher (01:23:16.214) and English. Alex Haugen (01:23:21.04) With our friend Tyler Webster. Kent Boucher (01:23:24.068) I think I remember this now. Travis Frank (01:23:25.602) Yeah, but I've just seen some so many different breeds. And I'm telling you that if you put 10 dogs out in the field, that English pointer is probably going to find nine out of 10 Covey's. Wow, it just outperforms. It's just that's what but it's probably not as suited to go busting through cattails. Yeah, and they do go in cat like my dog she does go into cattails. She does retrieve ducks and geese out of the water. She does a little bit of everything. I love her. I absolutely love her. I'd love 10 more of her in my life. If I had that, I would die happy hunting man. I just love her. But there's labs that are just amazing at busting through cattails and getting those pheasants out from holding and you get a shot at them. They work close and that's a tool for the right job. each different dog breed has their expertise and out of shape dogs doesn't matter what breed they are. That's the most overrated dog that I've hunted behind is an overweight dog. Cause usually they come out of the box and they're hunting and you know, it's looking good. And in 20 minutes, 30 minutes, 40 minutes, all of a sudden the dog's walking behind you and now that dog is not helping you at all. So you want a dog that's conditioned, you want a dog that's taken care of correctly, not overweight. Kent Boucher (01:24:36.622) They're like Travis Frank (01:24:49.378) I've heard a lot, a lot of pheasant hunters over the years that say, I want that big box block headed black lab or whatever it be or Labrador that gets in those cattails and just goes and gets them. And that's how they say to it. I a big block headed dog that goes in there. That dog only hunts for 12 minutes. And then he's walking in the cattails behind the hunter. I'm like, I don't know. That dog only had the stamina to look for just a short little window. So if I want to hunt all day, I have the chance I want to I want a dog that can keep up and keep hunting out there. So Kent Boucher (01:25:27.006) That's a good answer. I like that answer. Alex Haugen (01:25:28.716) if you guys couldn't if you guys had to get something other than a hunting dog though what dog would you get all three of you Kent Boucher (01:25:35.339) I think I wouldn't have it as an inside dog, but just around the farm a rat terrier. Alex Haugen (01:25:42.594) Well, if you got a farm, feel like a border collie or something would be really good. Kent Boucher (01:25:45.376) a board of college are good. We had one at hoxie. The problem with them is they they need a job to do. Like if if they don't if they aren't included in like a regular Travis Frank (01:25:57.748) All dogs need it. Yeah. Spoiler alert. All dogs need it. And when they don't, they rip up your house. They don't know what they're supposed to do. They whine in the crate. They whine wherever they're at. They get anxious because they don't have a job. Right. You see so many dogs that have anxiety. That's human induced. It's not the dog. It's because they don't know what their role is in the pack. Kent Boucher (01:26:21.066) Yeah, that's that's that's a good point Wow Okay, we we got to get going here, but I want to end on this last question that I had for you In hunting all of these places You've had I'm assuming you've developed some level of care for the condition of the states and in places that you've hunted Travis Frank (01:26:34.732) you Kent Boucher (01:26:47.79) Could you just describe that for us a little bit? You know, like, does it feel like going home when you had, you know, when you're painting that picture of Wyoming and coming out on that Canyon and or if you, you know, you're back in Kansas for the fifth time or you're maybe you come back to Iowa or wherever you go, that's not truly home for you. But do you almost like develop this secondary care for a place like where Like for me right now, this whole boundary waters deal, you know, that's a place I've been, you know, three times in my life. I care about that place. Right. I was telling Nick, we should do a, we should do a trip to the boundary waters some summer, just like I Travis Frank (01:27:21.87) Yeah, I've been there 25 times. love it. Travis Frank (01:27:31.598) I'm taking my boys up there in a couple weeks. Kent Boucher (01:27:33.806) We should do a long weekend canoe trip. We should film part of it just because it would be so fun Travis Frank (01:27:39.352) Would you enjoy that Nick? Nicolas Lirio (01:27:40.672) Yeah, yeah, yeah, I really enjoy like when we would go out to Whistletown Lake and we'd go kayaking and we would just follow the border of the lake. Yeah, yeah, big fan. Kent Boucher (01:27:53.102) We should do that sometime. But do you develop that secondary care for these places where you start paying attention to them more, you start falling in love with the flora and fauna that they have and the culture that they have and stuff like that? Travis Frank (01:28:06.924) Yeah, for sure. Because there's been attacks on public lands in the last several months and start thinking about which chunks are they talking about? Yeah. Holy crap. I walked there. Yeah. And then it's really personal. It's really personal. And I feel that way pretty much anytime. I don't typically go back to the same place. Once we tell a story about an area, we try to keep finding new stories out there. There's stories everywhere, all over the place. And I try to go on new adventures. I personally love seeing what's over the next hill. You know, so I don't typically go back. I don't hunt the same places around home very often. If I have the chance to get out hunting, I'm going to go somewhere that I've never been because I love to explore. That's just something that's within me. I don't choose that. But I do care about it. And there are some places that I go back to and we have access or permission or where we go deer hunt and things like that. And yeah, I just think this you guys with Doug Duran and you know his motto, it's not ours, it's our turn. I mean that that really sits with me and you see it no matter where you go. Everyone's trying to survive. Everyone's trying to thrive. Everyone wants more. And sometimes that means at the cost of the land. Right. You've seen that. So by seeing different places and experiencing it, certainly, when it makes the news, pay attention. You know, and I certainly care about it. I don't know if it means it it make, it makes it feel like I'm going back home. If that's really a question, but I just care about all of the different ecosystems that we have here. And when you see it, it, it's really, it affects you differently. It touches you. Wild places have always had an effect on us. Whether we take the time to go out there or not, when you do, a wild place touches you. And it affects everyone differently. And the creatures on it, you know, when I take my kids out hunting, it's the best way for them to understand and appreciate our wild world. Because when you hunt for an animal, you have to understand where they live and what they need to survive. Travis Frank (01:30:30.798) in order to outsmart them in order for them to be there. And I've said this quite a few times over the years, there will be a day when my kids have to make decisions for the land and the wildlife. And if they don't know anything about it and it doesn't touch them, I can't expect them to care about it. hunting gives them all the ability to understand the whole ecosystem. And if you're a hunter, it comes naturally. You don't have to force that. So I just think it's really important. And I think the role of the hunter, you know, lot of conservation work has been done by hunting organizations. My wife and I were going to a banquet last weekend, I had the privilege to be able to speak and on the drive down, I kept trying to find other non hunting organizations that have done so much habitat work on the land. And I couldn't find any that that I knew of that has done more than Bezence Forever, Ducks Unlimited, Rocky Mountain Elk, National Wild Turkey, you start thinking about these organizations where they're trying to do something, whether it's 100 acres, 1000 acres, whatever it might be, they add up. I don't know other organizations out there that are trying to take land and convert it and restore it back to what it once was. Nicolas Lirio (01:31:46.626) Do you? Kent Boucher (01:31:47.414) Nature Conservancy would be the one that I would think of, but from a sheer number of acres standpoint, I think you're right in that. Usually their model, I believe, and this could be wrong, I love the Nature Conservancy, and they allow people to hunt their properties, which is a big credit to them, but they usually are given or purchase a pretty large section of land, and then they, they manage it in perpetuity and it's super high quality restoration work that's done there. Very intensive. you know, like Pheasants Forever, they're buying land all over the place, turning it back to the public after it's been restored. Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, same deal. Yeah, so some of those organizations probably just acres to acres, I would think are probably even more than the Nature Conservancy. Travis Frank (01:32:45.806) Well, if you're a hunter, and you are out there on the land, we by nature take. Right. But as a whole, some of the most impactful organizations in America are hunting organization. Absolutely. So if you can be a part of them, in some way, any way, any capacity, it makes a difference. Because there's probably going to come a time when the place that you love might Kent Boucher (01:32:51.106) Yep, that's right. Travis Frank (01:33:10.988) be under some sort of a chain, an attack or whatever you want to call it where it could be public rights taken away or something. Who's going to stand up for it? Right? Right now it's a lot of hunting organizations. You know, and we've seen that in Washington DC in the last couple weeks. Kent Boucher (01:33:24.43) true. Kent Boucher (01:33:28.344) Yep, when you look at this whole deal with the Boundary Waters, was hunting organizations that led the charge on hunting and fishing organizations, but especially hunting. Travis Frank (01:33:37.004) And there was a there was a language written into the farm bill that would have potentially prevented people from being able to use birds to train with for their dogs like pigeons or things like that. Yeah. Well, that wasn't the intent of the bill. That was the the bill that was part of the farm bill. That was not the intent. But the way it was written, it would have included that. Yeah, I'm not Kent Boucher (01:34:02.222) I'm not convinced that it's when that stuff gets thrown in there that it's not the intent they yeah I think a lot of times the it gets worked in there as a Hail Mary like this might I might get away Travis Frank (01:34:14.316) Right. So members of Pheasants Forever that are working on behalf of hunters in America, spoke with the people in Washington DC and help them under see, help them understand and see what could potentially come of it. And they took it out. Yeah. So you can thank a hunting organization for that because the ability to go hunt with your dog is now unchanged because of that. And that's important. Kent Boucher (01:34:43.22) Absolutely it is absolutely it is well we got a we got a head home Travis Frank (01:34:47.598) You got a long drive. You guys have been up all day. You were up way before the sun. Nicolas Lirio (01:34:48.59) I sundowned about 30 minutes ago. Nicolas Lirio (01:34:55.182) I always am Travis. Alex Haugen (01:34:57.838) You were you were up way before me I can tell you that much no, trust me I don't go in the morning anymore other than that one week where I made Travis proud of me now I go in the night Travis Frank (01:35:08.782) He got a membership at the gym. Alex Haugen (01:35:11.82) That was still... No, I go to the gym every day. In the morning I went and I was like, Travis, you you were right. It feels really good waking up at 5 a.m. You know, then I get all this stuff done in the morning. I did it for about a week straight and then the next week I'm like... Travis Frank (01:35:26.114) I woke up at five or four thirty yesterday morning took my son out turkey hunting and we had turkeys all over. I was just unbelievable. That's awesome. Yes. Alex Haugen (01:35:35.566) I just hate getting out of bed. That's the only problem. I can well wake up to my alarm. It's just the getting up. It's so comfy. Nicolas Lirio (01:35:42.702) So so I've been thinking a lot about this recently because when you go outside and there's a different temperature it is like miserable for like a little Kent Boucher (01:35:51.624) I thought you, I thought you scheduled 45 minutes of bed rot. Alex Haugen (01:35:56.078) See, I just go back to bed if I do that. Nicolas Lirio (01:35:56.874) Yeah, you've got to. No, no, no. So if you if you go outside and it's a different temperature, drastically, whether colder or warmer, you like it takes a while for your body to acclimate. That acclimating is painful on your body. That's where the miserable the misery comes in. Well, the same with like running, right? If you're running, if you need to run 10 miles, your first mile is misery. And then after that, you kind of like live long and you're fine. Well, the same getting out of bed, the waking up and saying, hey, body, we're going to have different. cycles going on here than we did an hour ago. Very painful for your body. It's real. Alex Haugen (01:36:34.354) Yeah, I believe you because once I'm up once I'm actually up and like brushing my teeth and everything I'm wide awake. I'm good to go It's just like what I'm laying in bed Kent Boucher (01:36:42.35) how awake I am in the morning. I'm wearing a joker out. Alex Haugen (01:36:46.343) I'm good, like I'm good to go for rest of day once I'm up and driving and everything. I'm good, but it's just, don't come find me when I'm just waking up in bed. Nicolas Lirio (01:36:54.496) I just am really excited for Kent driving home. Alex Haugen (01:36:57.358) Yeah. Alex Haugen (01:37:01.622) all right why got pizza for you guys to Kent Boucher (01:37:03.79) That sounds good. Well, thank you so much, Travis. Thank you, Al, for joining us as well and helping us with the tech side of this. made our lives a lot easier. I have to tear all the stuff down. And we love being back here in your beautiful state. I love Minnesota. It's a it's a nice state. There's a lot of good things happening here. No matter what the news says, there's a lot of there's a lot of good in Minnesota. And you guys are a part of that. And Travis Frank (01:37:18.826) We love having you. Kent Boucher (01:37:30.446) You know the connection to the land is a big part of why we do this podcast And I think that's probably if we had if you had to turn back to a common thread that was woven throughout this conversation that would probably be it just living close to the land and valuing it for what it is and And we hope to help you the listener do that as well go and check out the new Prairie form it's at the Prairie farm comm correct the Yep, yep, the Prairie farm comm and you can get signed up for a free Nicolas Lirio (01:37:53.944) PrairieFarm.com Kent Boucher (01:38:00.206) account on the forum. Nicolas Lirio (01:38:02.414) There's no paid version. It's not like there's no, it's just. Travis Frank (01:38:06.071) you're gonna suck us in. Kent Boucher (01:38:10.112) are you really like everything you you're Alex Haugen (01:38:11.81) Just your reading limit for today. Alex Haugen (01:38:20.179) Yeah, then they get real bold and say one say Travis Frank (01:38:23.564) I'm gonna log in Alex Haugen (01:38:28.287) Bobby Kent Boucher (01:38:30.51) His username is going to be anonymous. Anonymous Birdman. Alex Haugen (01:38:35.587) Ha ha! Nicolas Lirio (01:38:36.846) man. Kent Boucher (01:38:38.104) Well, thank you for tuning in, everyone. Remember, conservation happens one mind at a time. Nicolas Lirio (01:38:44.718) Did you do an intro? Kent Boucher (01:38:45.73) Yeah. Yeah. Alex Haugen (01:38:46.668) Yeah, he said Travis Rank. Travis Frank (01:38:48.654) You made me look at the camera.