Val Van Kooten (00:00.13) family repository for like, do anybody want grandma's wedding dress? No, nobody wants it. I took it because I always loved that kind of thing. But I always loved getting the history of the piece with the clothing. To me, it wasn't just about getting the clothing. But I ended up with 2,500 pieces of clothing, which I sold my collection about a year ago. And what do you need? You need some? I'm gonna get, forgot my pen, it's over there, I'm gonna grab it. In a minute, we'll have you do your intro, you've done it a hundred times before, but this time we'll have you look into that. That is your camera, that was our camera. We're gonna snuggle a little close to each other. And of course you'll need to talk real close to your mic, as you know. And don't worry too much about saying the like... Okay. Val Van Kooten (00:44.27) Bye! Nicolas Lirio (00:50.286) being politically correct. Cause we find that if you focus too much on that, it's not as good of a pod. It's a lot easier to go back later. Right. to submit it to Chris. Please there. Right, right. Nicolas Lirio (01:06.306) pen. There was something else over here that I would have... Hmm. Nope, Okay. Well, whenever you're ready, you can do your intro. You'll just look over there, say your name, your title, and this is the Prairie Farm Park. I'll just look at that a little closer. My name is Valerie Van Kooten. I'm the administrator at the State of Iowa Historical Society, and this is the Prairie Farm Podcast. beautiful. Kent Boucher (01:39.566) Perfect. I'm ready. All right, Kent, you ready? All right, I'll let you intro us in. Well, happy April, everyone. We thought being that it is April Fools and you you have your normal two favorite fools here on the podcast. We should celebrate the day with, I just like to call you our state historian. that an accurate enough title? So how about this, our favorite state historian, Miss Val Van Kooten, who if you have been listening to the podcast for a long time, That's fine, I'll take it, great. Kent Boucher (02:18.412) has, her family has a lot of history with our founder, Carol. fact, yeah, right? This is, I believe, her third time on the podcast. and our podcast. Nicolas Lirio (02:30.438) and mom were on yeah that was a great episode yeah and your first podcast put us on the map locally well it was Ken's idea but yep we had people that Well, Kent Boucher (02:40.75) I think it was your idea to do a history of tulip time. Yeah, I think it was a genius idea too. We people random people that had no idea who we were all of a sudden knew who we were because of how good your interview I'm still waiting for the check on that. Us too, Val. Us too. Yeah, I don't know if you've told the story before on the podcast, but you have a memory of Carol working out with your dad and he would ride his motorcycle out to work all the Val Van Kooten (03:07.534) Yeah, he was our hired man. He was in high school and he'd come after school or he'd get out early for work release and he had a motorcycle and he would come out and I was, my sister and I were probably 10, 11 years old and a lot of times, sometimes the job was my mom would say, Carol, can you run the kids into town for this or that? And so we got to ride the motorcycle into town and oh, that was so cool to do that when you're a 10 year old girl. But yeah, I remember the motorcycle very well. It was red. Yeah, I think it was red Yeah. I think it was a red Honda, wasn't Okay, yeah. Yeah. I drove that motorcycle for a while. The story is, uh, there were no, there were not real child labor laws on the farm. Forget about that. So dad worked literally driving tractor from like six years old onwards, maybe a little younger than that, you know, smaller tractors and, uh, worked for free, worked for free, worked for free 16th birthday. Uh, it might've been 15th birthday. Dad wakes him. His grandpa Harold wakes him up. Says I got a surprise for you brings out to the garage and there's a dirt bike. There's motorcycle there and it was his travel. Well, here's a secret. Now he could get to the farm and back without grandpa here. But also it was like his pride and joy. I mean, he earned that with 10 long years where the work so. Val Van Kooten (04:27.674) that's great. Yeah, so it always feels like we're coming back to kind of almost like family here when we got Val on. And I'm so sorry, can you just snuggle a little closer to me? The camera, I don't know. I don't think you're just trying to torture me. But no, since it is April Fool's and you are a favorite state historian, I thought it'd be kind of fun for you to on the spot. I wouldn't normally ask people this, but I you're so creative and knowledgeable to come up with two stories for us, one being a factual story and one being fictional. And then. two April fools over here have to figure out which one is bogus, not real. Val Van Kooten (05:12.874) Okay, let's see if I can stump you like, yeah, on the public radio show. Wait, wait, don't tell me. Okay, the first story is about a UFO scare in Northwest Iowa in Plymouth County. You probably have heard of the War of the Worlds in the 1930s where people got all, something like that happened in Plymouth County. a bunch of high school kids called up a local radio station and it was that was in October of 38, I believe it was. And they said, you we were outside, we saw, we're sure that they were flying saucers. We could see people in them looking out the windows and they look like little green men and The livestock in this area is just going nuts. It's flying around and it looked like it landed somewhere and they gave a name of a farmer's farm. you know, we're just, we're gonna call the police and we're just, and this radio station broadcast this out. And pretty soon it just sort of took on a life of its own. Other people were calling and saying, hey, I think I saw something or. we think something has landed in our field or our cows are acting really straight. Chickens are acting really strange. And this went on for probably the better part of five or six hours before finally the police found these, these kids who had started this and said, now what's going on? And they admitted that it had been a prank. But even when they went on the air and announced that these people were still weren't 100 % sure, they still thought something was going on. And so there was this big scare about UFOs up in Northwest Iowa. Nicolas Lirio (07:17.248) Crazy. This has the potential to be a false story about a false story. That's that is that's playing some mind games there. So I've got to say I had a teacher in Pella and when they introduced themselves to our class, they said, this is my name. You know, this is where I grew up trying to be relatable. And and I believe them that they believe this. And they said, I believe UFOs are real because when I was a teenager, me and a group of friends saw this. I don't want to say where this teacher grew up or, you know, I don't want people to trace it back, figure out who it was, but they were, and they were like, they weren't like a, a conspiratorial kind of person. They, they were convinced. said, we saw a thing that looked about the size of a barrel oil drum barrel, rotating awkwardly through the sky. And then it took off. They swore by it. Okay. Is that wild? Yeah. I'm just talking to you. Kent Boucher (08:15.266) Wow. I'm surprised they would admit that to their students. I know people who say they have seen something and they're very sober people. mean, they're not practical people. They're not people you would... Crazy. Who knows? I'm not gonna say yes or no. mean... Welcome to Prairie Farm podcast where we talk about aliens. My friend Caleb and I, we like to go mule deer hunting out in western Nebraska. And I mean, from just like a human population density, there's like nobody out there. the guy, we stayed at this one guy's ranch, he had a camper parked out in his yard and he let us rent a spot in there every night. his ringtone on his phone, was like that. Like every time his phone would ring. This guy has spent so much time on the open prairies all by himself. I wonder if he's like, yeah, he's been abducted a few times. man. Okay, story two. Nicolas Lirio (09:19.47) It's so st- Val Van Kooten (09:25.364) Okay, well this happened in East Central Iowa in the 1880s. Iowa County, the town of Belle Plaine, they were putting in a new well on the south side of town and the water level, they had tapped into an aquifer, the water levels weren't quite, level tables weren't quite the same. And when they opened up this South well, it was almost like bursting a bubble on a, or bursting a balloon because the water gushed up. And for 14 months, they could not control this geyser of water. And it was spewing petrified wood and rocks. And they tried all these people coming in to cap it and stop it. And they would think that they had it capped for a while and it would blow again. And finally, after 14, I mean, the whole town downtown area, they made a trench to send it to the, to the Marengo river. but it, it was just a mess. And finally, after 14 months, they did get it capped with a, a huge contusion of, of stuff that came in, like a flu that went down and, and, capped it. But they said, even today, if they're digging around out there, it's difficult to stop, stop this water flow. because it's that high. deal Nicolas Lirio (10:55.694) Yeah, I am deeply concerned about how to say about both of these now. I don't trust anything you're about to tell us now. Good bit. Val Van Kooten (11:04.558) Okay, one is true, one is not. I think I'm picking the alien one is not true. No, I don't know the bell plate. We're so close to bell plate. I feel like we should know. The problem is the bell playing one seems more believable, but that's what like if you try to trick us. 1880 I'm gonna say Nicolas Lirio (11:33.207) I'm going with aliens. It's basically 50-50 to me. I'm just... I think it's more likely that teens would prank like that than to have the guys are in Belle Plaine. I'm gonna say B. Find out who the real April Fool is. The aliens are totally false. Bell Plane really, they called it Jumbo and I did a Weird and Wonderful Iowa on it. It's a real thing? If you get on YouTube, it's really interesting. They have pictures, we have pictures and everything. Get on YouTube, Weird and Wonderful Iowa and look for Jumbo, Bell Plane. They still have a plaque there on their main street on a rock that shows weird. F***ing... Kent Boucher (12:22.126) We're wild. So what did they figure out the water issue? You know, I can't remember exactly how it went. They just, they capped it, but I don't think they ever got things. So it's just wet over there. It's just real wet. Well, I don't, this guy who went in in the 90s and was from the DNR and was taking samples, he said, his quote was, we were five minutes away from being on Good Morning America because it still was, they were still having problems getting things. This was in like 93 or something like that. So, yeah. So there's a lot of us. Yeah. Kent Boucher (13:02.956) That's really interesting. I'm trying to think of some kind of a... I mean, that's such a weird thing to have, a feature to have. There's got to be a way to like channel that to make it useful for something. You know what mean? some money for your town, yeah. Like put a car wash around it One of the guys who came in was really trying to make money off it. He donned like a deep sea diver suit and was charging people a quarter to watch him go down and everything in the city is like, that's not what we've got here. We want you to try and stop this. But several people tried and failed and the city wouldn't pay them and then they were angry and it was quite the thing. That is so interesting. You totally got me on that one. I am the April Fool. Nicolas Lirio (13:46.382) I thought they were 50-50. I literally just spitballed. I had no idea. That was good Somebody from Plymouth County calls and says yeah that really did happen then we'll Well, one of the things I thought you might be going with with that is I'm pretty sure there's a pretty sizable meteor impact, right? Meteorite impact. Yes in Northern Iowa, yes, and I can't remember the name of the town but They've got yes, they have a place where a meteor landed and it's still kind of crater Nicolas Lirio (14:21.72) Really? When did that happen? happened? mean, it was like prehistoric, right? okay. I thought you meant like while the town was there No, I don't. I don't. I don't. Yeah, you're talking big. Yeah. To have an impact of that size. Station. A large area. Nicolas Lirio (14:39.148) Yeah, well, what causes that? I just think of the physics. It like smashes the ground and then yeah, there's wind and dust that goes all over the place, but. It's just displacement, you You have that much matter. It surface the earth and now just pulverizes everything and shoots it off everywhere else. And some stuff burns up too, because you know, it's. In fact, the rock that's created by the heat of a meteorite, like the surrounding rock fragments are called, I believe, tectites, I think. I used to have a little box of tectites. I left them at the classroom at the first school I taught at. The energy that's created. Kent Boucher (15:16.545) anyone comes across this. Well, Val, we really appreciate you joining. We had a real reason and having you out. We've had some historians on and we can. I wanted to help paint a picture of what the first maybe the last decade and the of the 1800s and the first few decades of the 1900s were like for people. And there's a lot of. Yes, yeah, for Midwest specifically for Iowans, and there's a lot of romance that goes on. For Iowans. Nicolas Lirio (15:47.724) Well, if we could just go back to how simple it was and all these things and, I think that's a good spot to start. What of the thing, like when we romance about that, from what you know about it, and truthfully, from somebody who got a little taste, I mean, when you were a kid, farming was already changed quite a bit, and it was about to change a whole lot more by the time you were graduating from high school. But you got a little taste of the small farm life where, and actually, once again, you go back, listen to the episode where we interview Val's parents. Yeah, but she was still post tractor. Right, right, right. I mean, but there are still like things like gathering eggs and having to chore all the livestock out. Yeah, that's that's out in the pasture, out in the out in the pens and and cleaning out the hen house and things like that. When we romanticize, like Nick was talking about with those that that old way of living. Let's go to the pre tractor era, probably. What ones do you think would? Yeah, if we could still make that a part of the average rural Iowa upbringing for a kid, that would probably be good for us. Are there any of those realities? Val Van Kooten (17:07.34) I think so. think when people romanticize things, it isn't so much things as it is values and feelings. They romanticize the fact that the family sat down for dinner at night. The kids were all home. The kids worked hard on the farm. My sister and brother and I, we worked pretty hard on the farm. My kids didn't get that same experience. Every kid should have to unload hay into the elevator. mean, that's just hay bales. I mean, that just builds character. Everybody should have to walk beans or, know, tassel corn. So I think some of those things are, I think, should, you know, could still be instilled. And a lot of people still do a good job of those things. But what I have found is that, I mean, if you read even the scientific matter, there's a term for this, it's called declinism, where people have this nostalgic look at things traditionally about 50 years before where they're living. And they think that was a better time. It was the 1950s, now it's the 70s and 80s. Well, that was a better time. In 1940, the Gallup poll did a poll among farm people across the Midwest and 80 % said things were better in the horse and buggy days. Now these are people who are probably have tractors, starting to get tractors, have cars, you know, but there's still that nostalgia. I think it's more for feelings and for, because it always wasn't so great. I mean, they don't remember that as well. That's very interesting. Nicolas Lirio (19:01.922) That's like, they're thinking like, pre-penicillin, you know? Exactly, exactly, exactly. Do you think that's just a human thing where we're really good at blocking out pain? For instance, mothers are don't dread labor near as much as it actually is painful because they I think they physically kind of forget it. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think we're just good at that as humans or what do think? I don't know, I think it is a human trait because it goes back, I mean, in the Bible, in the book of Ecclesiastes, there's a verse that says, don't say, why are these times so much worse than they used to be? Ecclesiastes 7, you know, they're saying, don't say that. I mean, so people have always had this trait that it's something you want to hold on to. I mean, I have a nostalgia for my childhood. because it was my personal childhood, but I look at what was happening in the world and in the farm economy. I mean, as I came into high school and college, it was the beginning of the farm crisis. It was horrible, you know? Talking to my parents, you know, it was a rotten time, but for me, it was a great time. I was a kid in high school and, you know. Nicolas Lirio (20:10.508) Maybe that's what we miss more than anything is just. the innocence of not having to worry about those things. Yeah, maybe that's it. So I'm really curious about this. Did your parents or grandparents this generation complain about how lazy kids were? No, they really didn't because we really weren't. I mean, my mother, I still chide her about this is that she, you know, we wanted to make money for tulip time. That was the big thing every year. You're gonna go to tulip time, you wanna buy stuff. So she would make us clean the basement for 50 cents. You know, we thought that was great. It's like, talk about child labor. You know, so I we did, we worked. We worked very hard because we wanted to make money. And I don't see that trait in kids anymore because I think they're handed. They're in so many activities that they can't work. Kent Boucher (21:04.27) Yeah, I can't get my kids to blowing all their money on the stupid gumball machines every time. I mean, I tell them, I look, you got to hold on to your money. And every time we go, they know if we're going to a place, oh yeah, that place has gumball. Okay, I'm going to tell you a quick trick. Two things. You know, the prefrontal cortex is not done yet, but also you know how much money has been spent on psychology of getting humans to buy things. Your only defense against that is your prefrontal cortex. Fair enough, fair enough. Well, I think there's something to that with kind of what you're talking about, Nicholas, where you want to avoid the dealing with the pain. Like when I feel like a lazy lump, you know, maybe I'm sitting there scrolling on my phone or something. I'm just thinking to myself, man, if this was like 1952, I'd have all kinds of stuff to keep me busy and I wouldn't have to be sitting here finding something that was worthwhile doing. Yeah, sure, I could get up and go and patch that hole in the wall or fix this squeaky door hinge or something like that, but I hate doing stuff like that. I like working outside, but I don't have a reason to. And what it is is I'm creating an excuse for myself. And I catch myself doing that. I'm constantly like, man, you're just kind of making an excuse for being a lazy lump right now. And you're saying that it's out of my power. It's not 1952 anymore. know, farming's changed. I can't do farm work. And in reality, you know, it's just an excuse for what I'm doing, you know. Val Van Kooten (22:50.806) Yeah, but sometimes I think it's okay to be the lazy lump. Yeah, right. And that's part of it too. Yeah. Yeah, need to, yeah, just a downtime and, but yeah, you're right. That's, there was always something to do because you would have had a huge garden. You would have had, you know, procuring all your own food. Basically. there was a lot to do. I don't know anyone personally that has read more pioneer or earlier Iowa resident journals than you have. I'm curious how much downtime 1850 to 1930 how much downtime was. Question. Val Van Kooten (23:29.134) I think there was downtime because there were a lot of, as neighborhoods grew, were a lot of neighborhood type gatherings. know, women would have quilting bees and then men would have things helping somebody raise a cabin or raise a barn. So even the downtime was work. You know, they were still having a shucking bee. Is that when like things like Lions clubs and Elks club? Yeah, those kind of come later. But you start seeing country groups like the Grange or 4-H starts in some of those earlier days after the turn of the century. Because people had get togethers, they did things, 4th of July they usually had big get togethers. But even their work was fun. mean, they'd go, a lot of times groups of neighbors would go mapling together in March. when the trees, the sap started running and they'd be tapping them for maple syrup. And that was a huge social gathering. You'd meet neighbors there, you'd camp there for a few weeks, get your maple syrup, get it boiled down for the year. You met, you met. Yeah, people met partners there. You know, I mean, it was a place to, to meet others. And so they, they had downtime, but a lot of times that still included some sort of work. probably would use for sugar. Nicolas Lirio (24:52.598) It's crazy how romantic that feels like you just talking about it, you know how much, but what you're not talking about is like the ticks and the, you know, all the little nuisances that we don't really think of. And, and you're kind of starting to dabble in it, but I would really want to know day in a life. Let's start with a young man in his twenties. What, what are they, what are they doing? Pre tractor time. I would like to know how I fall short in today's Well, if you were still living at home, or you're married, I guess it doesn't really make a difference. But if you're still living at home, you'd be up early, probably milking cows, unless you had sisters, because a lot of times the women took care of the cow milking duties. really? Interesting. Yeah, you'd get up early, you'd get your animals fed, you'd get your horses ready to go for the day. You'd come in, eat breakfast after an hour or two of choring. and then you'd go out and do a few things around the farm, and then sometimes they'd eat second breakfast, which was sort of like a coffee, heavy coffee time, and then you'd take off for the day and go out into your field or fixing your fence or whatever you're doing. Sometimes you'd come back for dinner, but sometimes they'd bring it to you, sometimes you'd pack it and take it, but you'd probably be out there until sun started going down, and then you'd come back in, wash up, finish your chores around the yard and come in. at night, know, families often sat around and read to each other. Women always did some sort of hand work or in other words, working on mending or sewing. Sometimes if somebody had an instrument, you'd take an instrument down and play. Sometimes a neighbor would come over and tell stories. Kids might play marbles or do homework on the floor if they are going to school. Val Van Kooten (26:50.894) But it was all things that could be done by a kerosene lamp or candle. Man, we got some heavy decline-ism going on right now. Sounds pretty nice. Can you imagine families once a week sitting around someone who's playing an instrument for 30 straight? Spend, no, no, no, one day a month like that. But I'm just imagine 30 minutes of a whole family gathered around an instrument of the most mediocre instrument playing compared to today. And that is really that is. Kent Boucher (27:23.886) What? Val Van Kooten (27:28.254) It is, but you know, think my husband and I worked at Living History Farms as volunteers before we had kids. Can you give us an interview there? We cannot get an interview there. We really want to. Yeah, I can get you an interview there. And we worked, okay, we worked in the 1900 house and it was 110 degrees. I was canning tomato juice, know, those long skirts. My husband was out cutting wood and it was so miserable and so hot. And when we went home that night, we're like, thank God for air conditioning and elastic waists. My dad has said the same thing. He used to think, I'd love to be Amish, and such a simple life. And then he came home one day after working with, doing some stuff with some Amish, he was buying some equipment. He said it was hot in there, and I wanna come home and firm my air conditioner. So I think we kinda, yeah, we do kinda. Nicolas Lirio (28:28.525) It What were the, so the kids helped fry with milking. Were they mostly like feed the chickens, gather eggs, clean out the? Yeah, I mean, as they got older, a lot of times you'd go out and have to get the cows in at night out of the field, bring them in. You'd always help in the garden. Nobody liked pulling weeds, you know, doing garden stuff, doing chickens, turkeys, whatever, you know, in addition to feeding them, then they had to, you know, kill them and clean them, you know, a couple of times a year for their meat. Kids would, they were kind of the gophers in a lot of ways, but a lot of times they had stuff that they were in charge of doing every day, feeding the sheep or doing this or cleaning out the pig pen or whatever it was. And so kids learned very early. I don't think kids back then said, like I've heard kids say today, well, what are you gonna pay me if I do that? You're part of this family and if you wanna survive, you're going to have to pull your weight in this family. How much time was allotted for them to be just unstructured playtime? Val Van Kooten (29:38.728) I think in most families there was quite a bit. mean, you read kids were playing by ponds, they made little boats and things. They were ice skating when things froze over. They were playing in creeks and in pastures. They had favorite rocks that they would go to and dig around. And I think kids were very attuned, very early to nature and its rhythms. Yeah, that is interesting. It's crazy how intuitive little kids are with phones. And bet little kids are also really intuitive with nature as well if they're kind of out there. I think so. mean, they understood, I think they understood the rhythms of the seasons and the moons and all that kind of stuff way better than we do today. Yeah, it's so interesting. Yeah, that is do it when you're reading these journals I've heard maybe I read it on the internet, but I heard to some degree that They didn't really talk about their feelings. did you did they ever or was it just we did this then we did this then we did? Val Van Kooten (30:41.453) Yeah. Val Van Kooten (30:46.062) Pretty much, it was pretty much a litany of the stuff they did that day. They never talk about having a fight with somebody or having a disagreement with someone, or it's more, this is what the weather was like, this is what we had to eat today, this is what John was doing, this is what Mary was doing. We talked about selling our hogs week. or butchering next week, you know, that kind of thing. And they are very, very straightforward. Not all, I'm sure there were ones that were much more emotional, but a lot of them. Along those lines, I think I talked about this on the podcast, maybe not. I came across something truly amazing at Christmas at my grandparents' this last Christmas. My grandpa's father, who I never met, he died in the early 1960s. I mean, was pretty young. I he was still in his 50s when he died. can't miss them by a year. yes, yeah, thank you. He though kept a daily journal for years. And when he died, he had four kids. And those journals were split up among the four kids to include the year they were born and then like a few years after. And so my grandfather's allotment, he was born in 37. I got out the 1937 one. I always enjoy going back and reading about the day my grandpa was born. Kent Boucher (32:28.462) So in leading up to that, and he was born on January 17th. So I was reading it days leading up, I wonder if he was documented any nervousness or anxiousness about the arrival of a child. And I think it was the day before he was born, he wrote down that he had spent the day with Carol's Yeah Kent Boucher (32:57.944) grandfather. So the guy that would, I don't come from that area. My mom was born in Pella and then I grew up in the Quad City area. And so Carol and I had no, we're not related. We had no prior connection before I started working for him. And here, documented in this daily journal, he happens to write down that he had spent the day stacking hay. In or no, he didn't call it stacking. He called it bailing in January. I was like, what does that mean? And I asked my grandpa he's like yeah, that was an old method they would do in the the winter time they would get straw and they put it into shocks kind of like off the off of you know, the threshing machine and But they would do it in barns It was winter work that they could do and would then doing that with Carol's grandfather now here I am, you know almost 100 years later and Carol and I did all this farm work together for several years and just to close that loop. But it was very much so every day started out in that journal with the weather. And what's interesting about that, my dad hates that. It's not his, it's his relation by marriage. He's like, I wish you wouldn't have done that. I mean, we can look up what the weather was on that day. And it's like, well, they didn't know they'd have the internet. But also I keep it not. Yeah. Kent Boucher (34:26.446) a daily journal, but a couple times a week. And so often I start out by writing what the weather is. I think it was just a mental warmup. when you farm, it dictates what your day is gonna be. The weather did. And so... So there was nothing in there about anxiousness about having Nothing. Zero, like you said, there was nothing. Well, when he was born, he said, exciting day or something like that. know, Norman arrived today, exciting day. That's cool. What about religion? that come up in the journals much? Yeah, it does. mean, a lot of these people had a deep faith. Many times, especially the early pioneers, there was no organized church. If you were in a town or you were close to a town, you could go to a church. But a lot of times it was, you know, like itinerant pastors who would go around, you know, that kind of thing. If you wanted to get married, Val Van Kooten (35:27.552) or buried, or have a baby baptized, you waited till that... They'd keep the person in the ice house or a dead person or in the snowbank until a pastor could get there to bury them. yeah, mean, that was kind of the rhythm of it. But I think for a lot of people, faith was a very personal thing. I think it was also... I've seen this with farmers all my life. is that their faith is tied to the land and their stewardship of the land and their feeling that they are taking care of it to pass it on. I've seen that with many farmers. And I think for women, their faith was much more practical. Their lives did not extend outside. house and the farmyard nearly as much as a man's did. And for women it was more, faith is a practical thing that gets me through the day, you know, that kind of thing. a discipline. like a discipline? Kent Boucher (36:44.046) Have you ever come across any, like right now, an era in, you know, 50 years from now when a church historian looks back at this area, they'll probably call it the era of deconstructionism. You hear of all these people who are re-examining their faith for various reasons, right? I think politics are a big part of that, how politics and religion have become so locked up. And people are really breaking it down and saying, what is it that I believe? Yep. And I imagine if there are people that are still journaling, that's going to show up, you know, and they're going to people, you know, when great grandkids are reading their their their daily journal, they're going to see those themes. Was there any of that that you've come across in in? You saying like more intimate. Yeah, just like, man, Yeah, you know, the pastor said this today. I don't know what I think about that or I don't even know what I believe anymore or. Yeah, you see that especially with the death of children. I've seen that in where especially a family that would lose maybe two or three children in a row to diphtheria or typhus. You go out to cemeteries, you see that of five little graves right in a row. And sometimes the mothers will say things like, Kent Boucher (37:53.708) questioning of their Val Van Kooten (38:19.456) I don't even know, well, they say it more eloquently, but I don't even know if I can still believe in a higher power. So I'm just going to coast on faith here for a while until I can basically get my bearings again. But tragedy kind of was the time that people, mean, really in a tragedy, there is no way to make sense of it. Sometimes faith is the only thing you can hang on to. But you do see that with the death of children especially or the death of a spouse, where people would question, you know, how can a good God do this? Same questions we ask today, you know? That's really interesting because I've always seen it as so matter of fact, know, may the Almighty be with me today, know, and God bless me with this. So it's interesting to know that there was that deep. Maybe they were thinking nobody but them would ever read that. yeah, there was. That's true too. And I think for some people that was a diary was their emotional, maybe even if they didn't put a lot of emotion in it, but it was their outlet, you know, where they could at least list things that they're thinking about. You know, for me when I'm nervous or anxious or I have too much to do, I want to make a list and then I know kind of know what my parameters are. And I think sometimes diaries acted like that. Sure. Sort of a parameter. Nicolas Lirio (39:56.014) Interesting because I mean, if they're writing down things like the weather and and what it was like that year and day by day so that they could go back and check through cycles of what's been going on. I imagine like it was their Bible and their journal right next to each other in their house. Was there any there was no semblance of like hand you hand down the family Bible? Right. Was there any semblance of like handing down a journal? You know, I don't know. I've never... We get a lot of them donated here, so they got handed down somewhere. You know, most houses had, yes, the Bible probably had Ben Franklin's almanac, know, the old farm, poor Richard's almanac and the farmer's almanac. Probably had some kind of farm journal, newspaper. Maybe had some sort of church... circular church newspaper. So usually they'd have a few, yeah, a few things like that in the house to read, but journals were, you know, would not have been kept in public. You'd hide it, keep it somewhere, maybe not hide it, but people knew it was private. You didn't go look through somebody else's. After reading so many journal entries. and somebody who wants to journal now, what do you think people should be including? Like that will just be a treasure to future people that read. What kind of details should they be including? Val Van Kooten (41:30.828) Yeah, man, when I was doing a lot of antique clothing stuff, I would have loved more description on clothing, know, the style, why did they pick that fabric? How did they feel wearing it, that kind of thing? Oh, our grandkids will have a Rolodex of Instagram for that. The respect the drip journals. You know, I think just honesty, I think if people are honest in their journals, I think that's going to be something that's more of a treasure to your family than just recording facts, which are... That's okay. My dad has recorded every little piece of livestock he's ever sold and what he got paid for it, and he loves going back and looking at all that. I would like to have read something from my grandmother, a great grandmother that talked about how hard being a mother was sometimes. And I have written some things on that, that if my kids ever read them, they'll think, oh my gosh, my mom was having a nervous breakdown. Well, there were days I think I was. But it's honest. I think then you feel like, yeah, they were people, real people. Nicolas Lirio (42:42.19) Understandable. Kent Boucher (42:47.79) You get a taste of their personality. Right. Shameless plug on the pod my siblings and I interview people Well, you're not a sponsor. can't. Video video memoirs. Okay. Do you video memoirs for people? Right. And we sit down, we interview them, we add in photos and stuff. The biggest hurdle to that business for us is that for whatever reason, people 60 to young 70s seem, that's awesome. People over that age are not interested in doing it. And I've been on the phone with a lady just crying. She can't get her mom to do it. Nicolas Lirio (43:26.286) You know, and her mom was old. I'm very old, almost 90, maybe 90 years old and had a lot of wisdom, lived through a lot of things and and just wasn't interested sitting down and telling her story. You have any insight as to why that is? Yeah, I think, or is that local around here? Okay. Yeah. I mean, Iowans, especially people from Northern European backgrounds were, grew up to be very stoic. And if I talk to you about something that's painful, I might show emotion. I might cry. I might, I don't want to show that I'm was vulnerable with that. I think that's. across Iowa. Val Van Kooten (44:08.814) a lot of us people don't wanna... I found that with people in my church who had lived in the Netherlands during World War II, and I wanted to interview them for stories for a church newspaper. And they... A lot of them just didn't wanna talk about it. It just was too painful. Yeah. And they didn't wanna do it. And some of them did kind of slowly break down, and I'd ask a few questions and they'd think about it, but some never did. And I hate that, that they... went to their grave with these stories that nobody will ever know. Yeah. And I wonder, I do think I'm sure a vulnerability piece, it is scary and painful to be vulnerable. I'm sure that is, is some something to do with it. I think there's also like, It might be the part where you make them do yoga while they have. Well, they got to do yoga. Otherwise, they're not vulnerable. They're not doing yoga. It's just like nine year olds do. Kent Boucher (45:03.758) While they're doing Downward Dog, they're holding the mic. Yeah, tell me how that made you feel. No, no, I and that was fascinating to me that that the older but but that mid generation that really maybe is old enough to have an interview, but they got 20 years, 25, 30 years left of their life ahead of them. Like it's it's kind of too early to do it. But that that was shocking to me. That really was that everyone. kind of Kent's age to 65 super excited want to get their parents to do it and then they don't want to do. Because your parent it'd be like your parent could be 70 or 75 years old. You know what mean? Your parents are not there young. Yeah. Yeah, very, but but a wee babe. I think that the journals of pioneers are are. My age to Kent Boucher (45:47.426) Yeah, just like me. Nicolas Lirio (45:58.22) fascinating, but I think I'm even romanticizing reading those journals because I bet a lot of those are real dull. You know, you're just reading page after. Well, there's I've consciously filtered when I've done a Journal entry where it's like this was a really painful day for the family or something Ain't no way I'm talking about that right you know I mean because I don't want so and so to then think this thing about somebody in the family or something for all Right. All time going You're not going to be putting family skeletons into your, yeah. Yeah, I do think there used to be more of an understanding of like people make mistakes, but let's kind of look at their trajectory or what they're trying now. It's kind of like, you made a mistake 18 years ago. We don't talk to you anymore. But with the journals, when you're reading them, what like A little bit of a pivot. What changes in technology seemed to change journal entries the most? You know, there's like a maybe like tractors might be an example. There's a clear before and after after this technology was introduced. Val Van Kooten (47:05.142) Well, I suppose quill pens to ink, you know, ink pens, I don't know. I mean, some of the really old ones from the 1850s and 60s, I mean, I don't know if any of you have seen the one that just got published about the Rousseau. It was Wyatt Earp's family journey out to the West. The Rousseau party was who they went with. And the Rousseau family, the mother kept a diary the whole way out to the West and they just published that. I did not read her diary, but I would love to. But I listened to that there was an audio book, a new audio book on the Earp family that just came out. Okay. Within the last. Okay. I wonder if it's the same person. that. Yeah, okay. And he was not she did not think very highly of why its father was. Val Van Kooten (47:54.1) No, she was. No, Nicholas. She was very, she was very honest and she was an invalid. mean, she was, she went along and really couldn't walk. but Nicholas Earp was a tough character and they had to several times admonish him for his language and for his rough behavior. And, yeah, she's, she's pretty honest about that. But, you know, I thought, I thought about that. Okay. She's sitting around writing this at night with what? A pot of ink and a. quill pen? It had to have been. And then as you go on further after the turn of the century, you're writing with some sort of, probably some sort of pen. I don't know exactly when ink pens came in. That would have been like fountain pens where you like... Right fountain pens and then you know and I don't know how many people keep journals now on a computer do you do right yours or do you keep it on? Yeah, most people right there's I think I write it. Nicolas Lirio (48:56.33) And I've got like a stack of them, you know, and I date at the on the front of each one. It says the date I first wrote in it and the date I last wrote in it. And I have a stack and there's one I can't find. It's very upsetting to me. call it can find it on eBay just go to Prairie farmer 55 and sell it all year It has me and my wife's dating journey in it. really can't find it. I wonder if she has it tucked away. Maybe she doesn't want it out there. Yeah. Val Van Kooten (49:26.67) But you know, right now I'm reading Rick Atkinson's trilogy about the Revolutionary War. And it's very dense, each book's about 600 pages. It's a great trilogy, you have to read it in small bits. Wait, what was it called? It's Rick Atkinson, it's a trilogy. The first one's called The British Are Coming. Second one is The Fate of the Day, and the third one hasn't been released yet. told me about that recently. Nicolas Lirio (49:54.318) think it might have been my pastor. He's a big revolutionary war buff. Yeah, because he was comparing him to David McCullough, who re-elected Washington in 1776. Yeah. I this guy, I'll bet he has referenced the journals of at least 2,000 both British and American soldiers. Wow. Everybody kept a journal. Yeah. And they must have kept it because it's in a library somewhere that he found. they're very... Same thing, very deadpan. I mean, after a battle where everybody is slaughtered and it was a horrible defeat, somebody would write... you know, we were quite disturbed and ruffled today, you know, or something like that. mean, instead of almost everybody's dead here, know, great, great masses of casualties, but you know, it's just, they're not. was late. Val Van Kooten (50:45.678) You know, it's just very... They're very stoic and... Supper was much delayed. Oh man, that's crazy. so the pen, what about, well the plow would have been, is that 1850, 1840 something? 1830s When did yeah, I think you're right. I think John Deere's like 1837. Nicolas Lirio (51:15.448) I mean, that's a little bit before the journals you're probably regularly reading because you're reading the Iowa, Iowa. Well, but. Yeah, some of them are the settling of Marion County. Sarah Nollin, Sarah Nozzaman wrote about living in Iowa while it was a territory before it became a state. my gosh. Okay, during that era, I've wondered this. I used to live in the Davenport area and there's a spot over by West Lake, which is just kind of, it's still a Davenport address, but it's kind of like a little district of Davenport, I guess you could say, mostly rural. And as you're heading down Highway 61 towards Muscatine, there's this old barn there. And it said, I don't, it could just be the address, but I'm pretty sure it's the year. It says 1836. So that's an old barn. That's 10 years pre-statehood. And I wonder when I see that, you know, when you, when you read about the settlement of America back east of the Mississippi river, there was on the frontiers edge, there was near constant traumatic interaction between whites and Native Americans. And I never get that feel when I read history about Iowa. Were those hostilities, so when Sarah Nossman was writing in pre-state Iowa, granted, you know, that's Kent Boucher (53:07.382) a lot further into Iowa than Muscatine is or Davenport is. Yeah, she was in Van Buren County. Coming up to Marion, yeah. Oh, that's still pretty funny. Is there any document about that of you gotta sleep with one eye open all the time and. No, they I mean, by then, I mean, the Blackhawk Treaty and some of that stuff had pushed. There was the what they, you know, the neutral land where nobody could settle. That was supposed to be a strip between the white settlers and then keep pushing, pushing the natives west. The biggest thing these settlers will talk about is small bands of Indians who had stayed, who you know, would disturb them, you know, would show up at their house and want food or what blankets or what, you know, something. Val Van Kooten (54:03.5) I think so. was, hospitality was, you know, expected. The Nozman family has some beautiful beadwork that was given to them by a woman who they traded for, they wanted their dog. And they traded their dog. They wanted a good, like a hunting dog. And I'm hoping that dog survived and everything. But they have this beautiful piece of beadwork. that they still have in their family that they will show. That's so incredible. Anything today in our households that could possibly last 150 years like a thing think of like Ikea tables no way you know No. Kent Boucher (54:48.544) Yeah, probably. Probably had given him a really nice deer antler I found. That's fair. That's that I did not make, but will last forever. Yeah, it's it's it's an interesting part of the story, though. So there's I know there's the the terrible massacre that happened. And there's a couple of Northwest, Iowa. Yeah. And and. You know, there's there's stories of that. Of course, the Black Hawk War, which if you're listening to this and you haven't yet listened to our interview with Dr. Patrick Young, it'll look like Jung, but it's young from about a month ago or so. Go back and listen to that. You'll hear the whole history on Black Hawk and the significance there. But it's just so interesting to me how that wasn't, you know, so it wasn't talked about all the time. No, and I even think that with the settling of Pella. I mean, when Pella was settled in 1846, the last of the Musquaki had just been pushed out three years before. Oh, 1843, 42, the Red Rock Line pushed out, sent to Kansas, and they never make a remark about, you know, this land was somebody else's at one time. which is why I think land acknowledgement statements, you're starting to see them more because people are starting to realize that we just came in and kind of took this. It was well, I mean, that was for, you know, the settlers all the way across. But specifically Pella, they they didn't come from the East Coast. They came straight from the Netherlands and their land in Europe. They were kind of for a thousand years had been you occupy this and now we get a big enough army. So we occupy you. And it was just like that was the rule of the game. And do you think you had anything to do with that? Or do you think they it was just like. Nicolas Lirio (56:52.524) more they felt it was, it was profited. Yeah, I think so. I think that whole manifest destiny thing where we are meant to take this over. Yeah, right. That was unbelievable. You know, and land, the lure of land, cheap land for so many Europeans was a huge draw when you just, you're landlocked and you have a large family. So yeah, I mean, they wanted that land and that's, yeah, that's why everybody kept pushing farther west. That was an incredible marketing campaign. Nicolas Lirio (57:25.258) Interesting. If you, if someone asked me what is the most American thing you could possibly think of? Well, besides eating a hot dog, like a terrible hot dog at a baseball game, close, there are a few things that are really close, but one of them up there is moving to a place for, for some form of freedom, whether it's economic or religious or just less regulation or whatever, moving to a place to have more opportunity. I think is way up there and Iowa is basically defined by that. Look at all of our immigrant communities. I mean, Iowa has a huge, really larger than many other states, all of the immigrant communities, know, Norwegian, Swedes, Czech and Slovak, the Luxemburgers over at St. Donatus, you the Dutch, you've got the, and now you've got the Amish coming in from Switzerland. to be Val Van Kooten (58:26.122) It's just amazing how many little dots of ethnic heritage you have around the state of Iowa. Yeah, interesting. So our slogan, the education state, I wondered that and I've never I didn't even put two and two together to want to ask you how did we go? How did we get that slogan? Where did that come? Well, know, Iowa was a very early innovator in pushing public schools. The first little public school in Iowa was in Burlington. I think it's still standing, if I'm correct. We've always had a tradition, a strong tradition of schooling. And then for many years, you know, our students had the highest ACT scores and highest. Iowa basic skills came from Iowa. It was just always something that was a... Where did that come from? Why didn't Illinois have it as much as Iowa if settlers came to Illinois for the same reason they came to Iowa? Val Van Kooten (59:21.91) You know, I don't know. Val Van Kooten (59:27.758) You know, I don't know. That's a question to get my education people over here. Yeah. Because yeah, I mean, I don't know. I would be fascinated to figure out like, did we just decide? Because it's a big deal. I Thomas Jefferson was a huge proponent of the populace being well educated. And honestly, it, I've thought about it a bunch and just think educating the masses is the harder but better route to create change. Yeah, it's a bigger lift. It is more painful. It's easier to just control or force things through that I think is better for the masses. instead of letting them decide for them. Right. And but I think it's the better way forward. I mean, it's education is different now than it was back then. But I am I am fascinated by like, why is this random state in the middle of the United States. One reason might be, and I don't know, is that Iowa was settled very largely by settlers from the East Coast. A lot of Iowa settlers came from Vermont, they came from Kentucky, they came from the Carolinas, they came from Massachusetts, Pella area had some from Quebec. Education on the East Coast was prized. especially in these Puritan and congregational areas. And those are the people coming to, it wasn't until our 20th governor in Iowa that we had an Iowa born governor. Did you know that? No. They were all born out of state and came in. Interesting. And most of them from the East. Yeah. Nicolas Lirio (01:01:13.986) Huh. Yeah, mean, the East Coast definitely pushes the education. Right, so I don't know if that has something to do with it or not. And the the last thing I really wanted to bring up was pre and post tractors in terms of agricultural farm work. We live in a world post tractor. I don't I don't know. There's basically hardly anybody alive that remembers a pre tractor day. How much people do it by, you know, well, I think they are lot of. My grandpa, as I've talked about already, he's 89 and they still used horses quite a bit when he was a young kid. Oh, okay. But he does also know that when his parents moved to the farm in 1927, there was already a left behind tractor out in the field. I think it was a Moline tractor. Before Minneapolis Moline even merged, Moline Tractor Works, I think is what it was called. it was, know, back then that was a problem. You know, they didn't have sealed bearings and things like that. And you'd have something go out of your tractor. was more expensive to fix it than to get a new one. Right. Right. So, you know, before pre 1927, somebody out there had already been using tractors. But but there was this Val Van Kooten (01:02:30.328) fix. even to haul it back to the barn. Val Van Kooten (01:02:45.934) We've been watching Tractor Wars on- It's an interesting show about the early tractors. A lot of people did hate giving up their horses. yeah, they felt a very... mean, the horses had names, they had personalities. They felt very connected and they kept them mostly, put them to pasture. but they kind of lost their purpose. I and became another mouth to feed and another vet bill and. right. Interesting. So what are the journals like? What was the conversation as tractors were taking over? Val Van Kooten (01:03:28.194) You know, I don't read as many modern ones like that. There was always, I remember my husband talking about when his dad got his first tractor and just the excitement, the neighbors came to look at it. know, the kids were telling everybody at school and it was just a, it was kind of like getting your first TV in the neighborhood, you know, that kind of a thing. So there was a great excitement about it and what it could do, how much more you could get done in a day. You talk about leisure time, you know, now you have more time to spend with your family or go to a ball game or do what you want to do. The tractor helped with that. Although then, to make the tractor worthwhile, you had to have more land. So it's kind of a self... Yeah. Nicolas Lirio (01:04:21.518) Yeah, I mean, we've definitely seen that spiral and I guess probably all technology on the farm led that way. But the tractor kind of opened the floodgates because before that the major innovation was the plow and that happened 50 years before that or 60 years before that. I really want to know your perspective. Maybe you haven't thought about it, but we've had conversations where you understand how important land is to like people's blood, you know, very connected. And you've read through the transitions of Iowa's culture and probably Midwest culture and agriculture as it changed with it and the technology. I know this feels out of left field, but I think your brain, because it's studied history so much, is well suited to take a stab at what you think autonomous tractors and combines will do to our culture here in Iowa. Okay, autonomous you mean, self-running? no humans in it at all. And now to be fair, the technology basically is there. I mean, it probably is there, but it's not as well rolled out. Um, and farming's owned by people who are older and yeah, the, companies probably understand that it'll be when millennials and Gen Zers take over that this will actually roll out. But what do you think will happen to our culture in the Midwest? Val Van Kooten (01:05:50.154) Well, I think people thought when we got rid of horses that culture was going to disintegrate. And then when we went to bigger, great big tractors, culture was going to disintegrate. And then when farms got bigger and bigger, culture was going to disintegrate. And to a certain extent, it probably has. I think if it works and it works well, it's going to free people up. to invent and do a lot more things in agriculture. They're gonna have the time to put into solving other agricultural problems, which is what I hope happens. you know, because I know farmers are sitting in a tractor and they're thinking about these things and thinking, if I had more time, I'd like to work on this or do this. And maybe that's the key to it. I don't know. Cause I had a, I had a, a classmate in high school, 12, 13 years ago. He was telling me he'd do his homework in the tractor. Cause the tractor would just drive for him. And I remember thinking, why are you even in it then? Like, what is the point? Obviously there's like the. There's a difference between auto steer and... Well, but like filling in the obviously humans filled in that gap, but that gap is getting real small. What's needed, right? so I appreciate you. That is a very optimistic view of that. I appreciate it. Val Van Kooten (01:07:18.126) I mean, now culture, yeah, I mean, I think we have lost, when I was growing up in the 70s, lost small farms, we were all together, people talked about what a great neighborhood we're in. Neighborhoods did things with each other. Every farmer down the road, you know, we all got together and did things. Well, now there's fewer of those small farmers, big farmers, some of them don't even live here, know, they've hired it out or rented it out. that has changed our culture. And I think we can romanticize that and say, wish it was, but it's not. And we have to be pragmatic and think, okay, then what are the positives of it? And how can we make that culture? I think 4-H is a great way to preserve that culture among country kids. Keep them in that. FFA is another one. There are ways to do it, but it's not gonna be the same as it was. Can't be. Hmm, man, that was fascinating. Can you get anything else? Contentment. When you read back through those journals, do you get a sense, an overall sense of contentment or discontentment from people that were living in Iowa in the early days of Iowa state history? Val Van Kooten (01:08:44.957) I they went through some very hard stuff. I remember Sarah Nozman writing about a time when their entire crop failed and they spent a whole winter eating corn out of the field that they had boiled that they could find that was left for a winter. But I think they always, even when they went through these horrible times, they were looking for the opportunities ahead. You know, I know this is a hard time, but things are going to get better. And I don't know if I see that optimism among people today who are going through those things who can say, I know things are going to get better. Do they seem glad to have come to Iowa? Yes, I think for the most part, all of them were glad to be there. I think they all had a realization that they were making a part of history. I really sense that, that they realize that this is not yet a state, or even in the early years, the state that we are some of the first ones here, we're mapping and kind of plotting what's happening here. And that's exciting to see too. Interesting. Kent Boucher (01:09:59.426) Do you have a favorite journal entry of all time that you read from early Iowan? Val Van Kooten (01:10:08.428) I think just one that's kind of funny and interesting is how possessive people were of their land. The whole process was not very organized at the beginning. You went in and staked your claim at an office in Fairfield or wherever, and you might get back and somebody has taken your land, claim jumper. So they started these claim jumper clubs all over the state in Southeast Iowa. where maybe 10 local farmers would come together and say, okay, we're gonna stand together and keep out anybody who tries to come in and jump one of our claims. And if somebody did, they'd get their guns together and they'd go over there and they'd scare this person off. And sometimes there were shootings and it got pretty hairy. And they do talk about that in their journals about how this claim jumper club, how important it was and... how they got rid of this one person who was trying to take over a claim. And I like reading those kinds of things because it it reinforces that this, they wanted, this was their piece. They wanted it, they had paid for it and they were gonna have it and they were gonna protect it. And I think that's a very Iowa trait. Yeah. Val Van Kooten (01:11:36.982) Thanks for coming. I love I could talk all day about Yeah, this is great. Well, we got plenty more to hit in the years to come. And maybe when you retire again, you can just be do it, run your own segment on our podcast. We we would love that. Please come back. Nicolas Lirio (01:11:49.888) That would be so great. You would do a great job. We appreciate you and everyone listening. These these journals are they're a big deal. Like where we come from is a big deal. And I think it helps give us a vision, not that we're going to go backwards, but there are pieces that we let fall along the way that didn't need to fall. We just kind of let them let them leave, especially those piece of our culture where people were connecting so intimately and so deeply. I think those could come back. But But all those things that they don't happen just because we talked about on a podcast, just just like with conservation, all this happens one mind at a time. If you get on history.iowa.gov and you go to our research section, you can see what we have for all of our stuff and you can request to come in and take a look at it and sit down and read it yourself. If you go over to the research library, there's a building next door. I don't even try not to go there because I'll spend days there. So you do early. amazing. would be awesome. Kent Boucher (01:12:52.428) What can you promote the cemetery tour that you have? Yes, Sunday, May 3, in Marion County, we're doing, in conjunction with America 250's birthday this year, we are opening up four cemeteries in Marion County that have War of 1812 veterans buried there, and we'll have a host at each cemetery who will tell you about that person. There are 26 veterans in Marion County, we're just hitting four of them. And it's free. It's open to the public from 1 to 4 p.m. on May 3. And there will be things in all of the local papers in Marion County about it. That's super cool. All right. Well, we'll talk to you again next time. Okay, thanks. Kent Boucher (01:13:39.15) That was great. That was so-