Ep. 278 High Quality Timber, Perennial Food Plots, and Healthy Hunting Ecosystems w/ Jared Van Hees

What does it really take to create a deer paradise? We’re joined by Jared Van Hees of The Habitat Podcast to get the dirt on what truly matters. We cover everything from smart timber stand improvement and working with loggers to building effective perennial food plots for year-round wildlife health. He is TRULY an expert on white tail deer habitat, so we had a lot of fun picking his brain, and I’m sure you’ll enjoy listening!

Check out this episode of the Prairie Farm Podcast to find out more!

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• Podcast Transcript

  00:00:00:12 - 00:00:03:12

  In three, two, one.

  00:00:03:20 - 00:00:06:12

  Jared. You're wearing a chain saw shirt.

  00:00:06:12 - 00:00:10:10

  You've been hosting a habitat podcast

  for a long time.

  00:00:10:11 - 00:00:12:18

  We've talked about a lot of TSC work.

  00:00:12:18 - 00:00:15:06

  You've done a lot of TSR work.

  00:00:15:06 - 00:00:19:06

  Surely you've had a sketchy

  chainsaw story.

  00:00:20:03 - 00:00:22:16

  Maybe someone cut a tree

  and it fell where no one

  00:00:22:16 - 00:00:25:16

  was was wanting it to fall.

  00:00:26:00 - 00:00:28:17

  Maybe one fell early

  because it was all rotten

  00:00:28:17 - 00:00:31:17

  through the middle or something like that.

  00:00:31:22 - 00:00:32:09

  Got it.

  00:00:32:09 - 00:00:36:06

  Do you have a sketchy, sketchy

  chainsaw story that,

  00:00:36:11 - 00:00:39:15

  you might not want your wife to hear

  or your mother or something like that?

  00:00:40:16 - 00:00:42:04

  Yeah, definitely.

  00:00:42:04 - 00:00:43:19

  Thanks for having me on, guys.

  00:00:43:19 - 00:00:46:14

  Look forward to this for a while now.

  00:00:46:14 - 00:00:47:00

  Yeah.

  00:00:47:00 - 00:00:50:18

  I used to be pretty embarrassed

  by this story, and I didn't tell anybody

  00:00:50:18 - 00:00:53:19

  for quite a while because, you know,

  embarrassed, but, Right.

  00:00:53:19 - 00:00:54:20

  Yeah.

  00:00:54:20 - 00:01:00:03

  I've been running a sore now for probably

  7 or 8 years, and by means no expert.

  00:01:01:19 - 00:01:04:06

  But I was out on my first property.

  00:01:04:06 - 00:01:05:23

  I do everything, usually by myself.

  00:01:05:23 - 00:01:09:20

  One man team, which is, again,

  I'm smart with the chainsaw. And,

  00:01:10:23 - 00:01:14:10

  I was cutting through a tree,

  felling the tree,

  00:01:15:08 - 00:01:17:18

  and it was, rotten.

  00:01:17:18 - 00:01:21:13

  So it starts to fall, and I step out

  of the way, and I was videotaping.

  00:01:21:13 - 00:01:23:07

  It was trying to get some content,

  you know?

  00:01:23:07 - 00:01:25:15

  So I'm doing a couple things at once here.

  00:01:25:15 - 00:01:28:14

  And a branch probably about the size

  00:01:28:14 - 00:01:31:14

  of a baseball bat, maybe six foot long.

  00:01:32:12 - 00:01:35:12

  Snapped off the top of the tree

  as it fell.

  00:01:36:02 - 00:01:38:20

  So the tree is falling to the side.

  00:01:38:20 - 00:01:41:16

  I'm stepped away to the side,

  but this branch comes down

  00:01:41:16 - 00:01:43:10

  right on top of the helmet.

  00:01:43:10 - 00:01:46:04

  Oh, and, I didn't fall over anything,

  00:01:46:04 - 00:01:49:04

  so it kind of missed me,

  but hit me in the head.

  00:01:49:09 - 00:01:49:18

  Yeah.

  00:01:49:18 - 00:01:50:20

  And, you know,

  00:01:50:20 - 00:01:53:21

  ever since then, I'm like, okay, that's

  why you wear your chaps in your helmet.

  00:01:53:21 - 00:01:57:03

  Even if you're doing something

  you've done a million times.

  00:01:58:20 - 00:02:00:02

  Like it was winter time.

  00:02:00:02 - 00:02:01:23

  I was out there by myself.

  00:02:01:23 - 00:02:03:13

  Could have gone ten different ways.

  00:02:03:13 - 00:02:05:22

  Wrong, right. So. Oh, yeah.

  00:02:05:22 - 00:02:07:02

  Yeah, yeah.

  00:02:07:02 - 00:02:10:02

  Being in the winter could have just

  knocked you out and you got frostbite.

  00:02:10:06 - 00:02:12:00

  You know,

  by the time you come to or something.

  00:02:12:00 - 00:02:13:03

  Yeah.

  00:02:13:03 - 00:02:15:21

  Ken, who are we talking to that.

  00:02:15:21 - 00:02:18:21

  It was like their their coworker

  or something.

  00:02:19:04 - 00:02:24:13

  Like, the tree fell on him and he was by

  himself, and it actually knocked him out.

  00:02:24:13 - 00:02:28:00

  And the only reason anyone found him

  is because his phone did the like hole.

  00:02:28:09 - 00:02:29:05

  Are you okay?

  00:02:29:05 - 00:02:31:22

  And then it called 911

  because it jostled around.

  00:02:31:22 - 00:02:34:05

  I you must have been talking about that

  with somebody else.

  00:02:34:05 - 00:02:35:23

  I had not heard that story.

  00:02:35:23 - 00:02:36:15

  That's okay.

  00:02:36:15 - 00:02:41:00

  Well, guys, the guy who is running

  our excavator, he told me this story.

  00:02:41:00 - 00:02:43:14

  And this is crazy, not our excavator.

  00:02:43:14 - 00:02:46:21

  We got an excavator on the property

  for tearing down a couple bins.

  00:02:47:10 - 00:02:48:06

  Cool. And,

  00:02:49:10 - 00:02:50:13

  he and I go, dude,

  00:02:50:13 - 00:02:53:13

  what's like, what's the scariest moment

  you've ever had with this thing?

  00:02:53:13 - 00:02:56:03

  He's like, well,

  I was on the side of the river.

  00:02:56:03 - 00:02:57:19

  Skunk River, I think it was.

  00:02:57:19 - 00:03:00:19

  And and I was pulling out big trees.

  00:03:01:02 - 00:03:03:15

  Well, and

  and you got to keep on this excavator.

  00:03:03:15 - 00:03:09:17

  He's like, this is a 50,000 pound

  excavator and a tree fell down like it.

  00:03:09:17 - 00:03:13:04

  Basically, he dug up enough dirt

  that it didn't have enough root system.

  00:03:13:04 - 00:03:16:19

  It fell down earlier

  and the root system under him

  00:03:17:00 - 00:03:20:12

  picked him up

  in, like the leverage picked him up.

  00:03:21:02 - 00:03:23:11

  Yeah.

  And he said he threw it into reverse.

  00:03:23:11 - 00:03:27:10

  So as the tree was falling, he was rolling

  back off of the root system,

  00:03:27:17 - 00:03:29:22

  but it picked him up and tipped him

  forward.

  00:03:29:22 - 00:03:32:11

  And, that was horrifying.

  00:03:32:11 - 00:03:33:21

  Dude, that.

  00:03:33:21 - 00:03:36:13

  Yeah, that is terrifying. Holy cow.

  00:03:36:13 - 00:03:38:13

  Well, we're going to go

  ahead and in this. Podcast,

  00:03:39:15 - 00:03:40:03

  we're all going to

  00:03:40:03 - 00:03:43:03

  go hug our family members.

  00:03:43:04 - 00:03:44:16

  Great monikers going up right now.

  00:03:44:16 - 00:03:47:10

  Yeah, that's what

  00:03:47:10 - 00:03:48:15

  yeah that's terrifying.

  00:03:48:15 - 00:03:50:13

  But it brings about a real truth.

  00:03:50:13 - 00:03:54:05

  You know, you, Well, it's interesting

  I had to stop the tire shop.

  00:03:55:23 - 00:03:57:06

  Before we started this podcast

  00:03:57:06 - 00:04:00:06

  this morning, and,

  00:04:00:10 - 00:04:02:19

  I was, I was talking with the guy about,

  00:04:02:19 - 00:04:05:19

  split rims, so old style,

  00:04:06:08 - 00:04:09:08

  you know, farm equipment, trucks.

  00:04:09:20 - 00:04:14:16

  I suppose at one time, maybe even

  the majority of vehicles had split rims.

  00:04:15:10 - 00:04:18:22

  Which is kind of like this band

  that goes around the outside

  00:04:18:22 - 00:04:19:15

  like a plate

  00:04:19:15 - 00:04:22:21

  that goes around the outside of the rim

  and holds down the beat of the tires

  00:04:22:23 - 00:04:24:18

  when I understand it.

  00:04:24:18 - 00:04:29:12

  And, there

  some people call them suicide rims, widow

  00:04:29:12 - 00:04:33:12

  makers, you know, you get enough pressure

  behind those things, they separate.

  00:04:33:12 - 00:04:39:07

  And I think they just literally bust off

  the the rim like a bullet. And,

  00:04:40:16 - 00:04:43:13

  there's a guy, a friend of mine.

  00:04:43:13 - 00:04:47:09

  Who. He's like in his mid 60s now.

  00:04:47:09 - 00:04:51:08

  So his dad owned a, auto shop

  when he was a kid growing up there.

  00:04:51:08 - 00:04:54:08

  And and, he

  00:04:55:09 - 00:04:58:17

  and and it's interesting

  because his dad was a World War two vet,

  00:04:59:11 - 00:05:02:11

  in the European theater and,

  00:05:04:19 - 00:05:10:05

  he, would not allow, so it's a guy

  who's accustomed to danger, right?

  00:05:10:05 - 00:05:12:17

  Like, he's, he's lived danger.

  00:05:12:17 - 00:05:16:01

  And, he, he even, would race,

  00:05:17:05 - 00:05:21:17

  like, kind of semiprofessional or amateur,

  I guess would race, like, stock

  00:05:21:17 - 00:05:25:22

  cars and stuff and, he would not allow

  00:05:26:01 - 00:05:29:01

  his sons to, be anywhere near,

  00:05:30:01 - 00:05:32:11

  one of those rims

  when he was working on it.

  00:05:32:11 - 00:05:34:12

  Like, that's how dangerous they were.

  00:05:34:12 - 00:05:37:16

  But it's it's

  a part of the reality of doing,

  00:05:38:22 - 00:05:41:13

  you know, some of the work

  that the three of us do here on this

  00:05:41:13 - 00:05:44:18

  podcast is you you really have to,

  00:05:46:06 - 00:05:47:06

  as Carol would say,

  00:05:47:06 - 00:05:51:13

  Nicholas, be observant

  and and be paying attention at all times.

  00:05:51:13 - 00:05:56:07

  And sometimes I'm almost thankful

  for those close calls like that.

  00:05:56:07 - 00:05:57:12

  You talked about their Jared

  00:05:57:12 - 00:06:00:17

  with the tree branch,

  because the second thing you said after

  00:06:00:17 - 00:06:04:01

  you told that story is now,

  I always make sure I'm looking around.

  00:06:04:01 - 00:06:05:00

  I'm way back.

  00:06:05:00 - 00:06:07:07

  You know, I'm not, you know, complacent.

  00:06:07:07 - 00:06:08:17

  And I guarantee you,

  00:06:08:17 - 00:06:12:15

  Andrew, the guy who runs the excavator,

  who's a very good operator, by the way,

  00:06:12:15 - 00:06:16:01

  and he can't be more

  than, like, 22 years old.

  00:06:18:01 - 00:06:20:23

  I bet you he thinks about that every time

  he's in a similar position.

  00:06:20:23 - 00:06:23:23

  And and, you know, I think it's,

  00:06:24:08 - 00:06:27:13

  you know, it's it's a good it's

  kind of good to go through

  00:06:27:13 - 00:06:31:19

  those close calls because it's a

  that should be, lesson learned for life.

  00:06:33:10 - 00:06:34:10

  I totally agree.

  00:06:34:10 - 00:06:35:10

  You know, we,

  00:06:35:10 - 00:06:38:12

  we were talking before we hit the record

  button, like, we have kids get home to.

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  We have stuff to do. Yeah.

  00:06:39:23 - 00:06:43:19

  You know, I have I have, goals

  I want to accomplish in life.

  00:06:43:19 - 00:06:47:16

  So if I could take them out

  by a random tree, that would suck. So.

  00:06:49:00 - 00:06:49:19

  Yeah.

  00:06:49:19 - 00:06:52:06

  Is this how it's going to end?

  00:06:52:06 - 00:06:52:15

  Yeah.

  00:06:52:15 - 00:06:55:06

  And die. And war. But,

  yeah. I'm just a branch.

  00:06:55:06 - 00:06:56:01

  So on my head.

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  And this was it? Yes.

  00:07:00:04 - 00:07:01:11

  So I'm. I'm curious.

  00:07:01:11 - 00:07:06:04

  You walk into, a wooded area

  or you observe a wooded area.

  00:07:06:04 - 00:07:09:11

  I imagine people

  either hire you or friends.

  00:07:09:11 - 00:07:12:00

  They say like, hey, can you come

  look at my woodlands?

  00:07:12:00 - 00:07:14:18

  You go going first

  three things you're looking at

  00:07:14:18 - 00:07:16:22

  when you're in a woodland area and why.

  00:07:16:22 - 00:07:19:22

  What are you looking for? Good question.

  00:07:20:05 - 00:07:25:14

  Looking for open canopy

  percentage, looking for,

  00:07:27:17 - 00:07:29:05

  invasives and

  00:07:29:05 - 00:07:32:21

  looking for timber value as well

  00:07:33:02 - 00:07:36:02

  to maybe help fund the project or to get

  people started on the right direction.

  00:07:37:01 - 00:07:40:01

  What percentage

  are you trying to have the canopy be open?

  00:07:40:22 - 00:07:43:19

  Don't you know that all kind of depends,

  but I like

  00:07:43:19 - 00:07:46:20

  I like 50%, you know, or more.

  00:07:47:19 - 00:07:50:09

  Wow. That's

  more than I would have expected.

  00:07:50:09 - 00:07:53:04

  A lot of places

  I go, almost all the properties

  00:07:53:04 - 00:07:56:16

  I visited on the consulting side of things

  need to be cut.

  00:07:56:16 - 00:07:59:01

  I mean, there's I bet there's

  00:07:59:01 - 00:08:01:01

  three out of 100

  00:08:01:01 - 00:08:05:12

  that maybe it's opposite where,

  you know, it's a clear cut situation.

  00:08:05:12 - 00:08:08:12

  Or they bought a farm

  that was already locked.

  00:08:08:21 - 00:08:11:21

  But I mean, the much by far

  the vast majority have,

  00:08:12:05 - 00:08:15:18

  a mature to mature of timber

  for wildlife value.

  00:08:16:04 - 00:08:18:07

  And, it needs to get cut.

  00:08:18:07 - 00:08:21:07

  So, I mean, I can almost tell you

  every place I go

  00:08:21:07 - 00:08:24:09

  to, I'm going to walk in and go,

  all right, get a forester on board first.

  00:08:24:20 - 00:08:29:03

  You can even do that for a show up and

  just start to get that ball rolling. So

  00:08:30:02 - 00:08:31:03

  are you using,

  00:08:31:03 - 00:08:34:11

  State Forester when you do that usually,

  or do you have

  00:08:34:20 - 00:08:39:10

  are there some, you know, like Esplanade

  or was it is Davies the other one?

  00:08:39:11 - 00:08:40:00

  Oh, sure.

  00:08:40:00 - 00:08:44:08

  Like like like those big,

  you know, teams of loggers that.

  00:08:44:15 - 00:08:46:02

  Go all. Over the country.

  00:08:46:02 - 00:08:49:01

  I mean, who are you when you say colony?

  00:08:49:01 - 00:08:51:15

  Forest or who are you?

  Who are you going to?

  00:08:51:15 - 00:08:52:07

  Good question.

  00:08:52:07 - 00:08:55:08

  I think it really can can vary.

  00:08:55:08 - 00:08:59:21

  It's whoever can get there

  to the person's property in the area,

  00:09:00:08 - 00:09:02:21

  whoever is a good fit for the job.

  00:09:02:21 - 00:09:06:05

  A lot of them are so busy right now,

  so either stay or private.

  00:09:06:06 - 00:09:07:11

  I'll go either way.

  00:09:07:11 - 00:09:10:05

  I've had both.

  00:09:10:05 - 00:09:13:05

  And usually it's it's

  who's local to that area.

  00:09:13:09 - 00:09:16:05

  You know, if I have a forester in Michigan

  and I'm in Ohio,

  00:09:16:05 - 00:09:19:16

  they might not want to travel

  and do do work down there or, or whatever.

  00:09:19:16 - 00:09:21:16

  So I usually leave that up to the client.

  00:09:23:19 - 00:09:24:10

  But I do

  00:09:24:10 - 00:09:27:15

  think that state foresters are, are great.

  00:09:27:15 - 00:09:30:09

  They're just very busy as well.

  00:09:30:09 - 00:09:33:02

  So it really depends on who can get there.

  00:09:33:02 - 00:09:36:13

  And get the job done, per

  the goals of the landowner.

  00:09:37:11 - 00:09:38:03

  Yeah.

  00:09:38:03 - 00:09:43:03

  What are you what's what's, what's a red

  flag when, when a forester shows up

  00:09:43:03 - 00:09:47:04

  and you're like, oh, you know,

  when we might need to look somewhere else?

  00:09:48:12 - 00:09:51:13

  When they all talk about, like, timber

  value.

  00:09:51:13 - 00:09:54:23

  Only, you know, you get because,

  I mean, they're, they're they're forestry.

  00:09:55:00 - 00:09:55:09

  Right.

  00:09:55:09 - 00:09:59:20

  So they're always about the health

  of the forest and, or the timber value,

  00:09:59:20 - 00:10:02:20

  which is great

  because they have to get paid, I get it.

  00:10:02:21 - 00:10:08:12

  But wildlife goals don't are not always

  synonymous with timber value goals.

  00:10:08:12 - 00:10:10:03

  Right. So,

  00:10:10:03 - 00:10:12:17

  that's that's a little bit of a red flag.

  00:10:12:17 - 00:10:15:23

  So I would just urge folks

  that if you are walking with the forester,

  00:10:16:07 - 00:10:17:00

  I urge you to.

  00:10:17:00 - 00:10:19:00

  Every time I do, I learn something.

  00:10:19:00 - 00:10:23:06

  But get your goals, convey your goals

  clearly from the very beginning.

  00:10:23:06 - 00:10:25:15

  And that way, you know, the guy can say,

  00:10:25:15 - 00:10:28:16

  okay, we might want to cut this out

  a little harder than maybe a select cut.

  00:10:29:13 - 00:10:32:08

  So that's that's really probably it.

  00:10:32:08 - 00:10:36:17

  Loggers that again, I'm skipping

  past Forester I'm going to a logger.

  00:10:37:12 - 00:10:39:18

  A lot of red flags can be can be seen.

  00:10:39:18 - 00:10:41:20

  And I've dealt with most of them.

  00:10:41:20 - 00:10:43:18

  Unfortunately,

  as well as my friends with their,

  00:10:43:18 - 00:10:45:04

  their properties and their projects.

  00:10:45:04 - 00:10:48:10

  So that's the Forester will help you,

  00:10:48:11 - 00:10:48:16

  you know,

  00:10:48:16 - 00:10:52:18

  as a little bit of an insurance policy,

  if he runs, if he hires his logger

  00:10:52:18 - 00:10:56:03

  and he kind of runs the show for you,

  he takes his percentage.

  00:10:56:11 - 00:10:58:14

  But then again, he's

  kind of on the line too.

  00:10:58:14 - 00:11:01:16

  And you have a lesser chance of being,

  you know, high graded or

  00:11:02:01 - 00:11:05:06

  or anything like that, where they'll take

  all your good trees and leave you.

  00:11:05:08 - 00:11:06:19

  Leave you the junk.

  00:11:06:19 - 00:11:09:18

  What are the red

  flags of the the the loggers?

  00:11:11:02 - 00:11:12:09

  Yeah.

  00:11:12:09 - 00:11:13:03

  Great question.

  00:11:13:03 - 00:11:16:03

  The stuff that I've dealt with would be

  00:11:16:15 - 00:11:19:19

  getting the project started on time.

  00:11:20:00 - 00:11:23:00

  Getting it finished.

  00:11:23:06 - 00:11:26:06

  Taking everything

  they're supposed to take,

  00:11:26:08 - 00:11:29:08

  for instance, on my 40 acres.

  00:11:29:17 - 00:11:31:03

  I needed it done quickly.

  00:11:31:03 - 00:11:35:05

  And, they were already delaying forever,

  so, like,

  00:11:35:05 - 00:11:39:07

  they didn't take a lot of the shagbark

  hickory or soft the younger

  00:11:39:07 - 00:11:42:08

  soft maple that was still there,

  that I wanted to take the aspen

  00:11:42:08 - 00:11:43:14

  as supposed to take all the aspen.

  00:11:43:14 - 00:11:47:18

  They took the nice big soft maple

  and the oaks and got out.

  00:11:48:10 - 00:11:50:00

  So that's what you can be.

  00:11:50:00 - 00:11:51:09

  That's called being hydrated.

  00:11:51:09 - 00:11:55:14

  And that can happen to folks, because it's

  a lot more work to take the junk trees.

  00:11:56:08 - 00:11:59:12

  You know, they can they can get

  their good stuff and get paid and get out.

  00:12:00:12 - 00:12:00:19

  Another

  00:12:00:19 - 00:12:03:19

  one can be your roads when you're done.

  00:12:03:21 - 00:12:06:21

  You know,

  it would be nice to have in the contract,

  00:12:06:21 - 00:12:09:12

  you know, at least fix my roads back up

  to where they were before

  00:12:09:12 - 00:12:12:12

  you guys got here. Type situation.

  00:12:12:12 - 00:12:14:15

  Just because they get all rutted up from

  00:12:14:15 - 00:12:17:15

  from a cat being in there like that.

  00:12:17:15 - 00:12:18:23

  Very right.

  00:12:18:23 - 00:12:21:17

  And, and, you know, I,

  I understand there's some of that

  00:12:21:17 - 00:12:25:00

  that comes with the logging,

  you know, it's going to be a man.

  00:12:25:17 - 00:12:28:21

  But there are things like that

  that, that you gotta watch out

  00:12:28:21 - 00:12:31:21

  for, payment, you know?

  00:12:32:16 - 00:12:34:16

  Yeah, there's,

  there's a few different things that

  00:12:34:16 - 00:12:36:23

  few nightmares I've,

  I've heard and gone through.

  00:12:36:23 - 00:12:39:23

  So I'm going to give you two scenarios.

  00:12:40:03 - 00:12:43:04

  And, this may or may not have

  happened to my family twice.

  00:12:45:20 - 00:12:49:05

  They've,

  they've had loggers approach them.

  00:12:49:21 - 00:12:54:08

  So, we know she got a real nice timber

  back there, and one guy

  00:12:54:08 - 00:12:58:07

  even admitted to walking through it

  like it shows up.

  00:12:58:07 - 00:12:59:02

  Who are you?

  00:12:59:02 - 00:13:00:08

  Oh, I'm a logger.

  00:13:00:08 - 00:13:03:05

  Yeah, I was walking in your timber

  back there, and,

  00:13:03:05 - 00:13:05:18

  So, like, you know, just just.

  00:13:05:18 - 00:13:09:03

  Blatantly trespassing and,

  00:13:10:01 - 00:13:13:01

  and both times my family is, has,

  00:13:14:07 - 00:13:16:11

  gone with,

  00:13:16:11 - 00:13:19:11

  these, these loggers

  that have approached them.

  00:13:19:17 - 00:13:22:01

  And overall, I don't think anything

  00:13:22:01 - 00:13:25:01

  too egregious has happened,

  00:13:25:19 - 00:13:27:17

  to the properties as a result of that.

  00:13:27:17 - 00:13:31:06

  But I did notice one,

  I walked with a state Forester

  00:13:31:06 - 00:13:34:06

  because it was after I had

  00:13:34:09 - 00:13:37:02

  I had had been listening to, Wyatt Hunt.

  00:13:37:02 - 00:13:40:22

  I've been listening to your podcast,

  the Habitat Podcast, and, it's either

  00:13:40:22 - 00:13:44:04

  you or Mark or maybe both of you guys

  stressed that importance

  00:13:44:04 - 00:13:47:05

  of working with a qualified forester.

  00:13:47:23 - 00:13:52:02

  And so this happened before

  I, I think both properties were logged.

  00:13:53:14 - 00:13:55:13

  No one property was logged.

  00:13:55:13 - 00:13:58:07

  Maybe I had hunted one year.

  00:13:58:07 - 00:14:01:17

  And so I didn't really understand

  anything about habitat

  00:14:01:17 - 00:14:04:21

  other than like, it's important

  because I was a biology teacher, you know,

  00:14:04:21 - 00:14:08:11

  but I didn't

  I didn't understand the nuances of, of,

  00:14:08:19 - 00:14:13:05

  you know, manipulating an ecosystem

  to make it healthier. And,

  00:14:15:01 - 00:14:17:15

  so I had a forester

  00:14:17:15 - 00:14:21:09

  come in after the fact and her comments.

  00:14:21:09 - 00:14:21:23

  She was great.

  00:14:21:23 - 00:14:25:06

  Her comments were like, you know,

  next time, if your family decides to

  00:14:25:08 - 00:14:28:11

  to log, call me first

  and then I can, I can,

  00:14:29:08 - 00:14:33:00

  you know, help

  make sure that that, this is done

  00:14:33:12 - 00:14:38:10

  in the best way possible and, and,

  she even mentions like, man,

  00:14:38:10 - 00:14:40:23

  they really did get all the walnuts,

  didn't they?

  00:14:40:23 - 00:14:46:16

  You know, like, she was like, saying they

  they came through and whatever

  00:14:46:19 - 00:14:50:19

  they could, you know, other than maybe

  like a few, like, really, odd shaped,

  00:14:51:15 - 00:14:54:15

  not good timber value trees.

  00:14:55:00 - 00:14:58:06

  They, they got pretty much

  all the walnut trees out

  00:14:58:06 - 00:15:01:06

  of, you know, that 40 acre

  piece of timber.

  00:15:01:11 - 00:15:04:03

  And, I kind of noticed that, too.

  00:15:04:03 - 00:15:06:07

  Then years later and I didn't even

  00:15:06:07 - 00:15:08:03

  I didn't even know anything

  about the second one

  00:15:08:03 - 00:15:11:07

  until I went back there to hang a tree

  stand in the summer.

  00:15:11:07 - 00:15:13:18

  I'm like, Holy cow, what happened in here?

  00:15:13:18 - 00:15:14:15

  You know?

  00:15:14:15 - 00:15:18:00

  And, I was told, yeah,

  this guy knocked on her door and

  00:15:18:17 - 00:15:21:01

  and he told us he'd pay us as much.

  00:15:21:01 - 00:15:22:14

  And so we said, go for it.

  00:15:22:14 - 00:15:25:14

  You know, walking around, there's like,

  man, there's like, no walnuts left.

  00:15:25:22 - 00:15:30:16

  I mean, is that

  is that almost always a bad situation

  00:15:30:16 - 00:15:33:20

  if the logger approaches you first or,

  00:15:35:01 - 00:15:38:03

  I mean, what would you

  coach somebody to do in that situation?

  00:15:38:03 - 00:15:41:04

  Jared. Oh, man. Yeah. That's that's tough.

  00:15:41:04 - 00:15:46:11

  I would definitely for

  you just more often than not.

  00:15:47:04 - 00:15:50:04

  Get a forester in there first.

  00:15:50:08 - 00:15:53:08

  I, I'm

  sure there are great loggers out there.

  00:15:54:06 - 00:15:57:02

  I haven't met a ton of them yet,

  but I'm sure there are great loggers out.

  00:15:57:02 - 00:15:59:10

  There that know.

  00:15:59:10 - 00:16:01:09

  Yeah.

  00:16:01:09 - 00:16:03:16

  You just have to make sure

  they're not also Packer fans.

  00:16:03:16 - 00:16:05:19

  Is that what you're saying?

  Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

  00:16:05:19 - 00:16:05:21

  Yeah.

  00:16:05:21 - 00:16:08:21

  If they have a lion shirt

  on, we're good to go.

  00:16:10:09 - 00:16:10:21

  They're going to.

  00:16:10:21 - 00:16:13:14

  They're going to try to pay you.

  00:16:13:14 - 00:16:16:14

  I mean, the less they pay you,

  the more they make.

  00:16:16:19 - 00:16:17:17

  Right? That could.

  00:16:17:17 - 00:16:21:19

  I mean, that's a lot of been

  a lot of business cost versus revenue.

  00:16:21:19 - 00:16:22:09

  Like, I get it.

  00:16:24:00 - 00:16:28:13

  But most

  likely if you were to shop it out instead

  00:16:28:13 - 00:16:32:15

  or get a couple logging mills,

  you know, competing for your bid,

  00:16:32:23 - 00:16:36:07

  you're going to you're going to get more

  for the trees, the same trees.

  00:16:36:20 - 00:16:39:05

  So yeah.

  00:16:39:05 - 00:16:41:03

  And then you know again the Forester

  00:16:41:03 - 00:16:44:17

  has a responsibility to run that job to,

  00:16:45:04 - 00:16:48:19

  to what it's supposed to be readiness

  and to the requirements of the contract.

  00:16:48:19 - 00:16:51:12

  And they're going to hold them

  accountable.

  00:16:51:12 - 00:16:52:00

  Right.

  00:16:52:00 - 00:16:53:13

  You if they come there

  00:16:53:13 - 00:16:57:17

  and they give you a X amount of money

  and they get your trees out, great.

  00:16:58:01 - 00:16:59:22

  Maybe, maybe that was perfect.

  00:16:59:22 - 00:17:03:14

  But I'm sure there were some other things

  that that could have been done again.

  00:17:03:14 - 00:17:07:18

  Like like taking some of the,

  the unwanted species out of there.

  00:17:08:11 - 00:17:12:09

  Other stuff that would help the habitat

  that it's just going to cost them money.

  00:17:12:19 - 00:17:14:23

  So unless they have to do it,

  why would they do it?

  00:17:14:23 - 00:17:15:20

  So yeah,

  00:17:15:20 - 00:17:16:06

  I would just

  00:17:16:06 - 00:17:19:01

  I would always urge you to work

  with the forest or first, you know,

  00:17:19:01 - 00:17:20:01

  maybe after you've done

  00:17:20:01 - 00:17:23:13

  a few jobs and, you know, the loggers

  personally, that's a different story.

  00:17:24:11 - 00:17:28:03

  Get in there and cut and don't

  leave me hanging.

  00:17:28:03 - 00:17:30:23

  Then you know, that can be done. But,

  yeah, I always go on.

  00:17:30:23 - 00:17:31:03

  Yeah,

  00:17:32:14 - 00:17:32:23

  yeah.

  00:17:32:23 - 00:17:36:09

  Well, I, I was not planning to quite go

  this route in this conversation,

  00:17:36:09 - 00:17:39:15

  but I think this is

  some of the most useful information.

  00:17:39:15 - 00:17:43:09

  Like I said, that situation

  has happened to my family twice now.

  00:17:43:14 - 00:17:47:22

  So I imagine it's a pretty common practice

  if if someone's tuning into this and,

  00:17:47:22 - 00:17:49:11

  and you own,

  00:17:49:11 - 00:17:52:19

  you know, some timber and maybe, you know,

  usually if you're a whitetail guy

  00:17:52:19 - 00:17:57:07

  and you are the, the landowner, you know,

  not just a permission piece

  00:17:57:07 - 00:18:00:00

  or in the family piece,

  you're the guy calling the shots.

  00:18:00:00 - 00:18:03:02

  You're probably going to be pretty well

  in tune with what's going on

  00:18:03:02 - 00:18:03:22

  and what's happening.

  00:18:03:22 - 00:18:04:17

  And you're going to

  00:18:04:17 - 00:18:07:23

  you're going to approach some guy

  banging on your door saying he was

  00:18:08:05 - 00:18:10:21

  he was really impressed by his timber

  when he was walking through it.

  00:18:10:21 - 00:18:12:17

  You're going to. You're.

  00:18:12:17 - 00:18:15:17

  You're going to be like, yeah,

  by principle, I'm not going with you,

  00:18:15:22 - 00:18:19:02

  but a lot of people who

  maybe aren't interested in the hunting,

  00:18:20:05 - 00:18:20:16

  and they,

  00:18:20:16 - 00:18:23:23

  they're

  a landowner that has some, forested acres.

  00:18:24:12 - 00:18:24:23

  I would say

  00:18:24:23 - 00:18:28:02

  it's probably pretty likely someone's

  going to show up at your door someday.

  00:18:28:22 - 00:18:31:04

  Wanting to,

  00:18:31:04 - 00:18:33:02

  tap into that resource that you have.

  00:18:33:02 - 00:18:36:03

  And so these are just

  very practical advice from Jared here.

  00:18:37:01 - 00:18:39:17

  Well, I got a question about forestry,

  and maybe it's

  00:18:39:17 - 00:18:41:00

  nothing you've ever dealt with.

  00:18:41:00 - 00:18:45:16

  If you ever help landowners with, like,

  carbon credits with their forested areas.

  00:18:46:17 - 00:18:50:05

  You know,

  I haven't, that's super interesting too,

  00:18:50:05 - 00:18:53:10

  because if you can get that

  to work out in your favor,

  00:18:54:05 - 00:18:58:09

  and, and get signed up for it,

  the benefits are be great, right?

  00:18:58:09 - 00:19:01:09

  Tax benefits,

  all that, environmental benefits.

  00:19:01:14 - 00:19:04:14

  But I have not delved into that

  very deeply.

  00:19:05:20 - 00:19:06:15

  We met.

  00:19:06:15 - 00:19:08:21

  We were at or Forest.

  00:19:08:21 - 00:19:10:17

  Carbon works is or you're thinking. Of.

  00:19:10:17 - 00:19:13:06

  Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

  So we were at Pheasant Fest and we had,

  00:19:15:02 - 00:19:16:08

  a booth right next to ours.

  00:19:16:08 - 00:19:19:14

  And that's what they did is Forest

  Carbon Works and, and,

  00:19:21:09 - 00:19:24:00

  they're not paying us to say this super

  nice guys.

  00:19:24:00 - 00:19:27:20

  They're across the US, but I,

  I don't know, I kept Heather crossed.

  00:19:28:03 - 00:19:28:22

  Nicholas got cut.

  00:19:28:22 - 00:19:31:19

  Out to be a catch, and,

  00:19:31:19 - 00:19:33:19

  the, the

  00:19:33:19 - 00:19:36:22

  the whole thing is like,

  they show up, they measure your trees,

  00:19:37:13 - 00:19:40:18

  and then basically, they come back

  every year measuring your trees,

  00:19:40:18 - 00:19:43:04

  and they kind of pay you

  for the difference, right?

  00:19:43:04 - 00:19:45:04

  Because that's

  how much your trees are catching.

  00:19:45:04 - 00:19:48:12

  Cool. And, yeah, cool program.

  00:19:48:12 - 00:19:52:08

  I think basically if you have a forested

  area, it's just like,

  00:19:52:17 - 00:19:55:19

  it's not like life changing cash,

  but it's like a little bit,

  00:19:57:07 - 00:19:59:03

  a little more cash in your pocket

  every year

  00:19:59:03 - 00:20:02:10

  for an area that I don't think

  you have to do anything with.

  00:20:03:15 - 00:20:04:19

  But, yeah, I'd check it out.

  00:20:04:19 - 00:20:06:20

  Forest carbon works.

  00:20:06:20 - 00:20:07:22

  Thank you. Yeah.

  00:20:07:22 - 00:20:08:12

  So check that. Out.

  00:20:08:12 - 00:20:10:13

  I think it's,

  00:20:10:13 - 00:20:13:16

  And, I mean, you know,

  you hear the criticisms all the time,

  00:20:13:16 - 00:20:17:12

  which are somewhat, you know,

  I think they're.

  00:20:17:12 - 00:20:21:08

  I think what's a fair concern

  sometimes becomes

  00:20:21:08 - 00:20:25:19

  accepted as a true like problem, you know.

  00:20:26:01 - 00:20:30:06

  And so you'll hear this with solar

  as well, like, oh yeah, I would never

  00:20:30:13 - 00:20:34:19

  I would never, lease

  any acres to a solar developer because

  00:20:34:19 - 00:20:37:23

  how do you know they're not going to stick

  you with all the equipment?

  00:20:37:23 - 00:20:40:09

  Clean up, down the road and all that?

  00:20:40:09 - 00:20:42:08

  And the answer is have a good attorney.

  00:20:42:08 - 00:20:42:19

  Right.

  00:20:42:19 - 00:20:46:14

  You just make it very clear

  in the contract,

  00:20:48:01 - 00:20:51:05

  what it's going to take

  for you to participate in the deal.

  00:20:51:09 - 00:20:55:16

  And, and people will make

  the same arguments

  00:20:55:16 - 00:20:59:10

  about like and again,

  I think they're, they're, they're good,

  00:21:01:03 - 00:21:03:09

  risks to bring up.

  00:21:03:09 - 00:21:06:15

  But I think they can be

  you can protect yourself from them.

  00:21:06:15 - 00:21:09:15

  And another

  a similar thing happens when people

  00:21:10:12 - 00:21:13:09

  sign up for carbon credits

  with their forest programs.

  00:21:13:09 - 00:21:15:06

  And, yeah, but what's the catch?

  00:21:15:06 - 00:21:17:00

  You know, or you know.

  00:21:17:00 - 00:21:20:03

  I sure would hate to be stuck

  not being able to do anything with

  00:21:20:16 - 00:21:25:14

  and and so find the outfit

  that matches those demands.

  00:21:25:14 - 00:21:29:00

  And, I remember with, forest carbon,

  which was

  00:21:29:06 - 00:21:32:00

  we need to have these guys on the show

  at some point.

  00:21:32:00 - 00:21:32:08

  Nicholas.

  00:21:32:08 - 00:21:35:08

  We talked about that

  when we were at Pheasant Fest, but,

  00:21:37:13 - 00:21:39:16

  The guidelines that they told us is

  00:21:39:16 - 00:21:43:22

  you're not supposed to harvest

  more than 10%

  00:21:44:13 - 00:21:47:13

  of your timber.

  00:21:47:16 - 00:21:50:00

  I believe it's each year of the contract,

  00:21:50:00 - 00:21:53:02

  you know, so

  you can even still do some cutting, for,

  00:21:53:06 - 00:21:56:06

  you know, habitat improvement work or or,

  00:21:56:15 - 00:21:59:07

  you know, maybe just need firewood. But,

  00:22:00:15 - 00:22:01:06

  those, those

  00:22:01:06 - 00:22:05:08

  programs do seem to be pretty well,

  er, airtight,

  00:22:05:08 - 00:22:09:22

  you know, as far as safe and, and and,

  a good thing to be involved in. So.

  00:22:10:14 - 00:22:13:20

  Okay, here's a question

  I have about the soil and the timber.

  00:22:15:11 - 00:22:18:11

  Generally, it seems most

  00:22:18:14 - 00:22:21:23

  forest soils and, acidic.

  00:22:21:23 - 00:22:27:08

  Is that a is

  that is that a typical general situation?

  00:22:27:10 - 00:22:30:10

  You're I would say so. Yeah.

  00:22:30:22 - 00:22:34:07

  I'm a soil test and every everyone's

  that I've, that I've been in.

  00:22:34:07 - 00:22:36:04

  But I do agree with that.

  00:22:36:04 - 00:22:39:03

  It seems like if trees

  are going to grow there and get the ferns

  00:22:39:03 - 00:22:42:18

  and everything

  else, usually trends that direction.

  00:22:43:01 - 00:22:43:15

  Yeah.

  00:22:43:15 - 00:22:48:04

  I mean, I've not been on a lot of places,

  that I've had plots or done with that.

  00:22:48:22 - 00:22:50:23

  The soils are already

  where it needs to be.

  00:22:50:23 - 00:22:54:05

  It's always it could be amended,

  it could grow or could become more,

  00:22:54:09 - 00:22:56:07

  you know, for biology. So.

  00:22:57:18 - 00:22:58:04

  Sure.

  00:22:58:04 - 00:22:59:18

  So and when you're so

  00:22:59:18 - 00:23:02:18

  going back to earlier in the conversation

  where you're saying you're looking at,

  00:23:03:13 - 00:23:06:18

  you want to have like a

  what was it, a 50% open canopy

  00:23:06:18 - 00:23:09:18

  throughout a forest?

  00:23:10:07 - 00:23:12:23

  I assume you're

  when you're making these clearings, you're

  00:23:12:23 - 00:23:18:13

  growing either batting cover

  or some kind of food plot or,

  00:23:18:15 - 00:23:23:03

  you know, feeding area, transition

  area screens,

  00:23:23:03 - 00:23:26:03

  something like that.

  00:23:26:09 - 00:23:29:12

  Every time,

  if you're cutting trees, you're

  00:23:29:12 - 00:23:34:05

  probably going to be trying

  to bring that up a little bit. And,

  00:23:35:05 - 00:23:37:06

  if you don't, which

  00:23:37:06 - 00:23:40:06

  I imagine is a common problem,

  00:23:40:06 - 00:23:43:06

  I could see people having a real hard time

  getting something to grow.

  00:23:44:15 - 00:23:45:02

  Yeah.

  00:23:45:02 - 00:23:48:14

  And it's it's not even the real hard time

  00:23:48:14 - 00:23:51:17

  as much as it is to grow to

  the plant's full potential.

  00:23:52:17 - 00:23:54:08

  As you guys know, stunted.

  00:23:54:08 - 00:23:55:02

  Yeah.

  00:23:55:02 - 00:23:59:05

  Stunted or even the the nutrients,

  the taste, things like that.

  00:24:01:00 - 00:24:02:06

  Usually the nutrient uptake.

  00:24:02:06 - 00:24:05:20

  If if plants in the in a better buffer

  zone of the pH level,

  00:24:07:03 - 00:24:09:12

  everything becomes more available for it,

  and it's

  00:24:09:12 - 00:24:13:09

  just, it's healthier, taste

  better, grows better.

  00:24:13:09 - 00:24:13:16

  Yeah.

  00:24:13:16 - 00:24:16:23

  So you can still get stuff

  to grow in a five soil or four soil.

  00:24:18:10 - 00:24:21:06

  But it's just not up to a full potential.

  00:24:21:06 - 00:24:23:13

  Yeah, yeah. So soil tests are important.

  00:24:23:13 - 00:24:26:13

  Skip has talked about that

  quite a bit in the past.

  00:24:26:13 - 00:24:28:21

  Nicolas.

  00:24:28:21 - 00:24:32:14

  Just the importance, I think he says

  whenever he gets a new piece of ground

  00:24:33:03 - 00:24:36:12

  that he's going to be doing work on, he,

  first thing he does is a bunch of,

  00:24:37:06 - 00:24:42:01

  soil testing to figure out what

  what can grow there

  00:24:42:02 - 00:24:45:08

  now, how it's going to work

  with what he wants to grow there.

  00:24:45:19 - 00:24:50:12

  And, I imagine even, you know, or

  especially when you're clearing some,

  00:24:50:12 - 00:24:53:23

  some once forested ground for that,

  I imagine it's even more important.

  00:24:54:22 - 00:24:57:12

  Which brings us to our, I wanted.

  00:24:57:12 - 00:25:00:12

  To ask. What?

  00:25:00:17 - 00:25:03:07

  Nothing worse

  than you're listening to a podcast

  00:25:03:07 - 00:25:04:20

  and someone asks a banger question.

  00:25:04:20 - 00:25:09:07

  No one has any answers, for it, but,

  And I'm worried that this will be this

  00:25:09:07 - 00:25:11:20

  because it's so weird. But, like,

  00:25:11:20 - 00:25:14:20

  humans seem to.

  00:25:16:19 - 00:25:18:04

  Enjoy

  00:25:18:04 - 00:25:21:09

  taste of something with nutrients up

  and to a point.

  00:25:21:14 - 00:25:24:15

  And we've kind of evolved

  past the nutrients we need.

  00:25:24:15 - 00:25:27:15

  And now we just taste

  like things that have sugar in them.

  00:25:27:20 - 00:25:30:03

  And, but for like, deer

  00:25:30:03 - 00:25:34:01

  or we talk a lot about native pasture

  for cows, you know, it is

  00:25:34:01 - 00:25:39:00

  there is their taste basically like,

  what if it's better for them?

  00:25:39:00 - 00:25:41:08

  It tastes better for them.

  So they eat at first.

  00:25:41:08 - 00:25:42:06

  Is that how that goes,

  00:25:42:06 - 00:25:46:00

  or do they actually have like a weird,

  nuanced taste buds system?

  00:25:46:00 - 00:25:46:14

  Anybody know?

  00:25:48:20 - 00:25:49:13

  Good question.

  00:25:49:13 - 00:25:53:00

  I know that they are concentrate

  selectors.

  00:25:53:00 - 00:25:53:09

  Right.

  00:25:53:09 - 00:25:58:03

  So when they're browsing

  they naturally know which leaf of a plant

  00:25:58:03 - 00:26:01:11

  has more nutrients than the plant

  next to it or a soybean plant.

  00:26:03:04 - 00:26:06:15

  But I've never talked to one of the deer

  about what they like to taste better.

  00:26:06:15 - 00:26:08:15

  So I.

  00:26:08:15 - 00:26:09:17

  I know that. So try to.

  00:26:09:17 - 00:26:13:03

  Figure out if they're like, yeah,

  if anybody's found like, well,

  00:26:13:03 - 00:26:14:05

  even though this thing doesn't

  00:26:14:05 - 00:26:17:05

  have as much nutrients in it,

  they just love this thing.

  00:26:18:04 - 00:26:18:14

  Well, I.

  00:26:18:14 - 00:26:20:16

  Think where I have seen. That,

  I find that.

  00:26:20:16 - 00:26:21:22

  Where it's lacking.

  00:26:21:22 - 00:26:24:02

  No, I mean, sorry not to interrupt.

  00:26:24:02 - 00:26:27:02

  Where there's where there's low

  00:26:27:02 - 00:26:30:01

  herbaceous vegetation and it's lacking.

  00:26:30:01 - 00:26:35:00

  You have deer eating autumn island plants

  and ash trees and stuff like that.

  00:26:35:00 - 00:26:37:19

  So it probably has something to do with,

  00:26:37:19 - 00:26:40:15

  the carrying capacity of the habitat

  in the deer population, too,

  00:26:40:15 - 00:26:44:00

  on what they'll prefer

  and what they can, what they have to eat.

  00:26:45:20 - 00:26:47:15

  Yeah, that makes sense.

  00:26:47:15 - 00:26:48:00

  Yeah.

  00:26:48:00 - 00:26:51:00

  And, you know,

  when we were putting together our,

  00:26:51:08 - 00:26:53:15

  our white tail mix seed

  00:26:53:15 - 00:26:56:15

  mix of different native forbs,

  00:26:56:21 - 00:26:59:21

  and doing that research, I found that.

  00:27:01:01 - 00:27:01:20

  You know, like, well,

  00:27:01:20 - 00:27:04:20

  what do you know, deer actually,

  like, eating,

  00:27:05:14 - 00:27:06:19

  we found that rarely.

  00:27:06:19 - 00:27:09:19

  And I put quite a bit of research

  into that. And,

  00:27:11:08 - 00:27:13:13

  we found that

  00:27:13:13 - 00:27:15:14

  a lot of the mint family

  00:27:15:14 - 00:27:18:14

  or, like, really strong smelling,

  00:27:18:21 - 00:27:22:07

  species were, were not preferred by deer.

  00:27:22:07 - 00:27:25:07

  And I don't think it's like,

  I think sometimes people look at that as,

  00:27:25:07 - 00:27:29:10

  like, not preferred as, like, repellent,

  you know, like it's repulsive to them.

  00:27:29:10 - 00:27:32:18

  And they, they'll walk out of their way

  to avoid it, you know.

  00:27:33:00 - 00:27:33:19

  And that's not the case.

  00:27:33:19 - 00:27:36:13

  They just don't

  they don't like, browsing on it.

  00:27:36:13 - 00:27:41:16

  And I got to think, because deer

  have and smell is a part of taste.

  00:27:43:07 - 00:27:46:07

  I got to think

  that because they have such a strong,

  00:27:46:16 - 00:27:49:23

  you know, smelling sense that,

  00:27:51:07 - 00:27:53:23

  they, you know, something

  that's super pungent

  00:27:53:23 - 00:27:57:04

  or overbearing or very aromatic.

  00:27:57:12 - 00:28:00:11

  It's probably just overwhelming to them

  would be my guess as to

  00:28:00:11 - 00:28:02:00

  how taste factors into it.

  00:28:02:00 - 00:28:04:12

  Nicholas.

  00:28:04:12 - 00:28:06:01

  All right. Well, I believe you.

  00:28:06:01 - 00:28:07:09

  I was just curious about that.

  00:28:07:09 - 00:28:09:08

  I'm trying to figure out

  if they like cake or not.

  00:28:09:08 - 00:28:11:18

  I think you need to ask, I assume.

  00:28:11:18 - 00:28:13:08

  Yeah, I mean, the.

  00:28:13:08 - 00:28:15:09

  Farthest thing away from a deer.

  00:28:15:09 - 00:28:18:09

  Yeah, possibly.

  00:28:18:19 - 00:28:21:18

  I wonder, I wonder if we started

  feeding animals sugar.

  00:28:21:18 - 00:28:25:08

  Like, if if it would be as yummy for them

  as it is for us.

  00:28:26:10 - 00:28:27:16

  I'm sure that.

  00:28:27:16 - 00:28:29:06

  They're. Yeah, definitely.

  00:28:29:06 - 00:28:31:14

  You know,

  00:28:31:14 - 00:28:33:08

  one I remember when I was a kid,

  00:28:34:11 - 00:28:35:14

  we were,

  00:28:35:14 - 00:28:41:03

  we used to go backpacking in, southwest

  with, Montana, and there was a mule deer

  00:28:41:13 - 00:28:45:12

  that my dad, like, would throw,

  marshmallows to.

  00:28:45:17 - 00:28:49:16

  And and, man, she just she couldn't get

  enough of those marshmallows, you know?

  00:28:50:04 - 00:28:53:08

  So there's there's got to be

  there's got to be something like that.

  00:28:53:22 - 00:28:56:16

  But so, you know,

  00:28:56:16 - 00:28:59:16

  part of part of this conversation that,

  00:28:59:18 - 00:29:03:09

  people are probably wondering if we're

  going to just avoid it to be, super nice.

  00:29:04:21 - 00:29:07:17

  Or if we're going to,

  if we're going to go in with it and, and

  00:29:07:17 - 00:29:10:14

  talk about it, that some of this tension

  that I'm sure you understand.

  00:29:10:14 - 00:29:12:11

  Well, Jared,

  00:29:12:11 - 00:29:15:11

  the where the conservation world

  00:29:15:23 - 00:29:18:11

  and the deer hunting world can collide,

  00:29:18:11 - 00:29:21:11

  which is not honestly, is not very

  00:29:21:14 - 00:29:23:13

  many times, like in most cases,

  00:29:23:13 - 00:29:26:17

  they they walk in tandem pretty well.

  00:29:27:05 - 00:29:31:11

  And, both are,

  you know, both support the other

  00:29:32:10 - 00:29:35:08

  and the there's,

  00:29:35:08 - 00:29:39:19

  there is however, this one aspect of

  and our friend, Doug

  00:29:39:19 - 00:29:44:01

  Dern refers to it

  as the whitetail Industrial complex.

  00:29:45:00 - 00:29:48:00

  And, I think he got that,

  00:29:48:01 - 00:29:51:01

  that phrase from another friend of ours,

  Ryan Callahan,

  00:29:51:13 - 00:29:54:13

  the, the idea of

  00:29:55:08 - 00:29:58:09

  this is all about deer

  are here for the hunter.

  00:29:58:09 - 00:30:01:09

  Right? And,

  00:30:01:16 - 00:30:04:12

  deer hunting is all

  about the experience of the hunter.

  00:30:04:12 - 00:30:07:06

  You know, they want to have fun.

  They want to.

  00:30:07:06 - 00:30:11:23

  They want to, you know, meet life goals

  of shooting the biggest buck.

  00:30:11:23 - 00:30:14:23

  And they

  they want to have something to eat.

  00:30:15:06 - 00:30:17:08

  And, and, it

  00:30:17:08 - 00:30:20:08

  can almost become this extraction

  00:30:20:13 - 00:30:25:19

  aspect or activity,

  I guess is a better word extraction

  00:30:25:19 - 00:30:29:14

  activity as opposed to a conservation

  based activity.

  00:30:30:02 - 00:30:32:15

  And and we had Doug was just here

  00:30:32:15 - 00:30:35:15

  with us last week and we talked about,

  00:30:36:16 - 00:30:38:23

  you know, hunting

  00:30:38:23 - 00:30:43:09

  by itself is an

  it is an extraction activity.

  00:30:43:11 - 00:30:44:10

  It really is.

  00:30:44:10 - 00:30:48:01

  And to just say hunting is conservation,

  which is something you probably remember

  00:30:48:01 - 00:30:51:02

  being preached, you know, on

  00:30:51:02 - 00:30:55:00

  every hunting podcast,

  probably my own included five years ago.

  00:30:57:17 - 00:30:58:19

  Hunting is conservation.

  00:30:58:19 - 00:31:00:15

  Hunting is conservation.

  00:31:00:15 - 00:31:04:08

  And, and, people like like Doug

  00:31:04:08 - 00:31:08:03

  and and, you know, Doug

  kind of open my eyes to it.

  00:31:08:03 - 00:31:10:21

  And I know other guys

  have kind of started to come around.

  00:31:10:21 - 00:31:12:16

  We can look at and be like, whoa,

  wait a minute.

  00:31:12:16 - 00:31:17:07

  This isn't really resembling conservation,

  where we're maybe doing

  00:31:17:07 - 00:31:23:08

  we're making decisions for the the forest

  that are not necessarily based on.

  00:31:23:16 - 00:31:27:12

  Yeah, this is going to be really good

  for the, pileated woodpeckers.

  00:31:27:22 - 00:31:31:14

  No, it's it's, man,

  this is going to help me kill more deer

  00:31:32:04 - 00:31:35:21

  and, or this is going to be really good

  for the water quality

  00:31:35:21 - 00:31:39:17

  versus man,

  that's going to be a great kill plot spot.

  00:31:39:17 - 00:31:43:12

  I can put my stand right over here

  and I'm going to have

  00:31:43:12 - 00:31:46:12

  a chance at,

  you know, like an awesome buck.

  00:31:46:15 - 00:31:49:18

  And that that

  00:31:50:18 - 00:31:52:04

  reality, I think is

  00:31:52:04 - 00:31:55:04

  kind of a that realization

  00:31:55:04 - 00:31:58:08

  is kind of a new one, I think, in the,

  00:31:59:15 - 00:32:01:18

  whitetail world.

  00:32:01:18 - 00:32:04:22

  And it seems like

  a lot of people are starting

  00:32:04:23 - 00:32:08:00

  to, like, come around to it,

  you know, like, yeah, you know, it's

  00:32:08:13 - 00:32:11:13

  maybe we do need to look at this deeper,

  but there's also something like,

  00:32:12:13 - 00:32:13:12

  don't bother me with that.

  00:32:13:12 - 00:32:16:07

  I just want good hunting,

  00:32:16:07 - 00:32:17:08

  I guess. What?

  00:32:17:08 - 00:32:21:13

  First of all, what

  what are your comments on this reality

  00:32:21:13 - 00:32:26:15

  that we're kind of seeing more

  and more in the deer habitat space?

  00:32:27:22 - 00:32:30:09

  Yeah, that's that's all a good take.

  00:32:30:09 - 00:32:35:05

  And I think that I mean,

  even if somebody is not doing everything

  00:32:35:05 - 00:32:38:21

  they could for the benefit of the land,

  the habitat in the wildlife,

  00:32:39:11 - 00:32:42:18

  I guess hunting is conservation,

  maybe because you're buying a license

  00:32:42:18 - 00:32:46:00

  and that those funds are going to

  maybe some real programs.

  00:32:46:03 - 00:32:48:15

  But on a personal level,

  I know what you're saying.

  00:32:50:10 - 00:32:52:01

  I think people are more educated now.

  00:32:52:01 - 00:32:52:13

  You know, there's

  00:32:52:13 - 00:32:56:13

  so much content out there

  at your fingertips that you can listen to.

  00:32:56:13 - 00:32:58:17

  And even myself,

  I'm talking about different stuff

  00:32:58:17 - 00:33:01:12

  these days on the podcast

  than seven years ago when I started.

  00:33:01:12 - 00:33:02:19

  For sure, sure.

  00:33:02:19 - 00:33:05:17

  Like I don't even want to go back in here

  at times, you know, because it's like.

  00:33:05:17 - 00:33:08:03

  Yeah,

  00:33:08:03 - 00:33:09:22

  oh, I hear that, dude.

  00:33:09:22 - 00:33:10:23

  Yeah. Yeah.

  00:33:10:23 - 00:33:15:10

  It's just, I would say

  you don't know what you don't know.

  00:33:15:10 - 00:33:17:15

  So maybe there's

  00:33:17:15 - 00:33:19:09

  maybe there's, a gap.

  00:33:19:09 - 00:33:22:16

  I'm sure there's a gap

  there on what people can be

  00:33:22:16 - 00:33:25:16

  educated on and make decisions on, but,

  00:33:26:16 - 00:33:30:15

  I mean, habitat

  thing is definitely been more of a focus.

  00:33:30:15 - 00:33:32:20

  I'm seeing it more on everybody's

  property.

  00:33:32:20 - 00:33:36:15

  Used to be just talking about how to kill

  big deer, how to kill the deer.

  00:33:36:15 - 00:33:40:21

  Now you see everybody doing the ASI and

  native grass planting and stuff like that.

  00:33:41:04 - 00:33:44:03

  Not everybody, but more

  so than five years ago.

  00:33:44:03 - 00:33:44:12

  Right?

  00:33:45:17 - 00:33:46:18

  Yeah, yeah, I think that's

  00:33:46:18 - 00:33:49:16

  I think the education part of

  that is a really good take.

  00:33:49:16 - 00:33:53:23

  You know, we just there is so much more

  information available now. And,

  00:33:55:03 - 00:33:59:17

  and in some ways you kind of wonder

  what took so long because we all

  00:34:00:08 - 00:34:03:12

  you probably remember this year

  everyone used to always

  00:34:03:12 - 00:34:07:22

  just refer to prairie as CRP,

  you know, oh, I got some crp or that.

  00:34:08:00 - 00:34:10:21

  And it had nothing to do with like.

  00:34:10:21 - 00:34:11:08

  Being a.

  00:34:11:08 - 00:34:15:00

  Part of a conservation,

  a federally funded conservation program.

  00:34:15:00 - 00:34:16:10

  It's just like, that's what we know.

  00:34:16:10 - 00:34:18:02

  Tallgrass that is native.

  00:34:18:02 - 00:34:21:20

  We know it is crp

  and and that wasn't that long ago.

  00:34:21:20 - 00:34:25:04

  That was five years ago, I would say,

  when that was what the majority of people

  00:34:25:04 - 00:34:28:18

  now people are starting to say

  native grasses or prairie,

  00:34:30:15 - 00:34:32:08

  and so I

  00:34:32:08 - 00:34:36:12

  think, I think your take on education

  being so

  00:34:37:14 - 00:34:39:17

  such a big part of the

  00:34:39:17 - 00:34:42:17

  this evolution, I think is huge.

  00:34:43:03 - 00:34:47:18

  What I guess a thing that I try to.

  00:34:48:07 - 00:34:53:20

  Yeah, we recently talked with, Patrick,

  Kaiser and Nicholas.

  00:34:53:20 - 00:34:56:19

  I remember you asked him about

  before we start recording.

  00:34:56:19 - 00:34:59:19

  Is is there anything you really want

  to convey here?

  00:35:00:02 - 00:35:01:00

  In this podcast?

  00:35:01:00 - 00:35:03:00

  Like, there's a main point

  you want us to hit on.

  00:35:03:00 - 00:35:06:00

  Do you remember what it was, Nicholas.

  00:35:06:04 - 00:35:07:02

  Stopped working.

  00:35:07:02 - 00:35:08:13

  Working landscape?

  00:35:08:13 - 00:35:10:22

  Yes, the working landscape.

  00:35:10:22 - 00:35:14:05

  He said, I want people to understand that.

  00:35:15:15 - 00:35:18:15

  I think it's important

  that we have a working landscape

  00:35:18:15 - 00:35:21:15

  where,

  00:35:22:03 - 00:35:24:14

  he's a guy who highly values conservation.

  00:35:24:14 - 00:35:24:18

  Right?

  00:35:24:18 - 00:35:28:09

  He's an expert in native plants

  and and how they're used

  00:35:28:09 - 00:35:31:19

  for pasturing animals, livestock.

  00:35:32:12 - 00:35:35:11

  And I kind of view deer hunting as,

  00:35:37:09 - 00:35:40:09

  we that question needs to be answered,

  00:35:41:20 - 00:35:42:17

  to some degree.

  00:35:42:17 - 00:35:45:17

  And I don't think it's

  the same as livestock.

  00:35:46:00 - 00:35:49:19

  Because you're dealing purely with nature

  when you're dealing with,

  00:35:49:19 - 00:35:54:04

  with, deer hunting,

  you're, you're dealing with a wild animal

  00:35:54:04 - 00:35:59:03

  in a wild place,

  in a, in a wild ecosystem. And,

  00:36:00:13 - 00:36:04:06

  so it's not it's not,

  the same as, like, dealing with

  00:36:04:06 - 00:36:07:06

  where am I going to be sticking my cows

  or my goats or whatever?

  00:36:08:13 - 00:36:13:12

  But how do you I,

  I guess there's no right answer here.

  00:36:13:12 - 00:36:16:15

  And this isn't a gotcha question

  by any means, but

  00:36:16:19 - 00:36:19:15

  how do we determine, like.

  00:36:19:15 - 00:36:20:16

  Yeah, you know,

  00:36:20:16 - 00:36:25:08

  a certain percentage of this farm

  can be a corn kill plot or a soybean kill

  00:36:25:09 - 00:36:29:18

  plot, or a brassica kill plot, and,

  another percentage of it's

  00:36:29:18 - 00:36:33:22

  going to be native, tree

  and, and, prairie species.

  00:36:34:10 - 00:36:35:15

  I mean, how, like

  00:36:36:17 - 00:36:39:22

  where I guess what I'm asking

  you to do is shake the crystal ball here

  00:36:39:22 - 00:36:43:15

  a little bit and as we continue to mature

  00:36:43:15 - 00:36:46:15

  in this conversation.

  00:36:47:18 - 00:36:48:15

  Where

  00:36:48:15 - 00:36:51:15

  what can what conclusion

  do we come to with hunting

  00:36:51:22 - 00:36:54:22

  and how the land is used?

  00:36:55:14 - 00:36:58:00

  You know, that's an interesting question.

  00:36:58:00 - 00:37:02:03

  I think when I look at it, I try to use

  00:37:02:18 - 00:37:07:03

  every usable inch of my farm

  and improve that.

  00:37:07:09 - 00:37:12:02

  You know, it's it's only 40 acres,

  so you're limited on on what you can do.

  00:37:12:02 - 00:37:16:10

  But I think that, if you can make

  every inch of it better, that's that's

  00:37:16:10 - 00:37:19:11

  what I try to do, is what I would convey

  in my plans for folks to,

  00:37:21:01 - 00:37:24:08

  I don't know what the actual percentage

  would be, but I think that,

  00:37:25:16 - 00:37:28:13

  you know, it

  depends on what your goals are to really.

  00:37:28:13 - 00:37:31:04

  And not everybody cares

  about the stuff that we care about.

  00:37:31:04 - 00:37:34:04

  So that's that can be what's hard.

  00:37:35:01 - 00:37:38:04

  I said the more the better, you know,

  but you got some guys

  00:37:38:04 - 00:37:42:00

  who just want to go out there and throw

  some corn down and shoot a couple deer.

  00:37:42:00 - 00:37:44:18

  And, you know, that's

  that's what they're happy with.

  00:37:44:18 - 00:37:46:01

  That's what it's all they're going to do.

  00:37:46:01 - 00:37:49:02

  They aren't going to put all that extra

  blood, sweat and tears into, you know,

  00:37:49:03 - 00:37:52:03

  the stuff that we care about.

  00:37:53:05 - 00:37:55:01

  So yeah, I try to smack

  00:37:55:01 - 00:37:58:01

  every beat I can, honestly,

  because you only have so much.

  00:37:59:05 - 00:38:00:01

  Yeah.

  00:38:00:01 - 00:38:03:01

  I'm curious about the,

  00:38:03:04 - 00:38:04:16

  perennial food plot.

  00:38:04:16 - 00:38:07:06

  Like the native perennial food plot,

  from what I could tell.

  00:38:07:06 - 00:38:10:06

  And I did research it

  quite a bit. I'm not.

  00:38:10:12 - 00:38:12:02

  I could totally be wrong.

  00:38:12:02 - 00:38:14:15

  We were the first, like,

  00:38:16:09 - 00:38:17:11

  company to, like, have.

  00:38:17:11 - 00:38:19:07

  That's a product that we have, right?

  00:38:19:07 - 00:38:21:06

  I'm sure people put them in.

  00:38:21:06 - 00:38:24:14

  But they had to, like, go to a native

  seed company and be like, hey, I want

  00:38:24:21 - 00:38:27:01

  a bunch of things that are good for deer

  that are native,

  00:38:27:01 - 00:38:28:01

  you know, I'm sure that happen.

  00:38:28:01 - 00:38:31:03

  But, in fact, I know what happened

  because that's how I got the idea.

  00:38:31:03 - 00:38:34:09

  Someone came to me for that idea. And,

  00:38:36:09 - 00:38:40:06

  but I'm curious because we're getting more

  00:38:40:06 - 00:38:44:05

  and more orders for that,

  you know, in the, in the hunting world.

  00:38:44:05 - 00:38:45:16

  And I'm actually not

  00:38:45:16 - 00:38:47:20

  I think people would listen to me

  and think I'm like, totally

  00:38:47:20 - 00:38:52:05

  against a food plot, like a brassica

  or, a sorghum or something.

  00:38:52:05 - 00:38:56:19

  And I'm not at all,

  I just think that it actually makes

  00:38:57:23 - 00:38:59:10

  more sense to put

  00:38:59:10 - 00:39:02:10

  the perennial food plot and the,

  00:39:02:13 - 00:39:05:13

  the native perennial food plot

  right next to the,

  00:39:06:15 - 00:39:10:03

  the annual food plot,

  because then you train the,

  00:39:10:14 - 00:39:13:20

  the whitetail that you have food here

  all, all year,

  00:39:14:03 - 00:39:16:20

  and then they've got something

  that they really desire

  00:39:16:20 - 00:39:18:20

  towards in the fall,

  and then they're hanging out there.

  00:39:18:20 - 00:39:22:06

  So it makes it for,

  for the hunting to go better.

  00:39:22:06 - 00:39:25:00

  But I,

  00:39:25:00 - 00:39:27:02

  or at least that's my theory.

  00:39:27:02 - 00:39:30:13

  And I'm curious, have you,

  because we're getting more orders

  00:39:30:13 - 00:39:33:04

  and it could just be that our website's

  attracting more people.

  00:39:33:04 - 00:39:36:08

  I'm curious if you ever see that

  where people are like, well,

  00:39:36:20 - 00:39:39:12

  can we put down some perennial,

  00:39:39:12 - 00:39:42:07

  things that will keep them?

  00:39:42:07 - 00:39:45:07

  Concentrate selecting.

  00:39:45:07 - 00:39:47:03

  Yeah. Great question. And I think

  00:39:48:13 - 00:39:50:18

  I think

  I'll look at that a couple different ways.

  00:39:50:18 - 00:39:52:06

  We do get that requests.

  00:39:52:06 - 00:39:55:06

  I own a food plot

  seed company with a partner, as well.

  00:39:55:19 - 00:39:57:17

  I think you guys, you're

  you're such great.

  00:39:57:17 - 00:39:59:18

  I love the mixes on there.

  00:39:59:18 - 00:40:02:18

  I try to get a lot of my native stuff

  00:40:03:02 - 00:40:05:10

  by working on what's already there.

  00:40:05:10 - 00:40:08:09

  You know, in the forest,

  by giving it, like, a lot.

  00:40:08:09 - 00:40:10:01

  You know, there's, as you guys both know,

  00:40:10:01 - 00:40:12:18

  thousands and millions of seeds

  that are sitting there ready to go.

  00:40:12:18 - 00:40:14:00

  Yeah. Yeah.

  00:40:14:00 - 00:40:16:22

  But we have done orders,

  00:40:16:22 - 00:40:21:09

  custom orders for folks

  who want to put in more natives.

  00:40:21:09 - 00:40:23:11

  Like you're talking about themselves.

  00:40:23:11 - 00:40:27:08

  Maybe they're converting a corn field

  that's been tilled and killed for,

  00:40:27:14 - 00:40:29:06

  you know, how many years?

  00:40:29:06 - 00:40:30:04

  So we've actually done that.

  00:40:30:04 - 00:40:32:06

  We've actually put together, mixes.

  00:40:32:06 - 00:40:36:12

  Not too far, unlike years

  where, where guys want that right away,

  00:40:37:01 - 00:40:39:20

  they don't want to manage

  cool season grasses and wait for all.

  00:40:39:20 - 00:40:41:21

  They just

  they want it right away to get that.

  00:40:41:21 - 00:40:45:02

  And I would also agree

  that having that next to,

  00:40:46:12 - 00:40:47:00

  a brassica

  00:40:47:00 - 00:40:50:01

  plot or a clover plot

  or something is as awesome.

  00:40:50:01 - 00:40:52:09

  And that's kind of

  what happens in on my farms.

  00:40:52:09 - 00:40:55:22

  The, the early successional growth right

  next to my food

  00:40:55:22 - 00:40:59:10

  plot is ragweed poke weed, you know,

  00:40:59:10 - 00:41:02:10

  young forest stuff that that is native

  that they're going to eat.

  00:41:03:16 - 00:41:06:07

  And a lot of the times

  that's got more protein and stuff in it

  00:41:06:07 - 00:41:07:19

  than, than some of the seeds we plant.

  00:41:07:19 - 00:41:13:19

  So I don't look at food plots

  as, as a, as a way to feed deer

  00:41:14:05 - 00:41:18:14

  as much as a native forest

  or native ecosystem.

  00:41:18:14 - 00:41:23:12

  I look at them as the ice cream

  after dinner type thing, you know,

  00:41:23:12 - 00:41:26:16

  to get them, to get them

  maybe to where I want them for,

  00:41:26:19 - 00:41:29:18

  archery opportunity.

  00:41:29:18 - 00:41:31:14

  To get on camera, stuff like that.

  00:41:31:14 - 00:41:34:02

  So you're I totally agree with you.

  00:41:34:02 - 00:41:35:23

  One next to the other would be preferred

  00:41:37:13 - 00:41:38:00

  man. Yeah,

  00:41:38:00 - 00:41:41:22

  I, I love that take to to me

  that that balances it

  00:41:41:22 - 00:41:46:00

  well because what I don't want is

  I don't want the I'm not trying

  00:41:46:14 - 00:41:49:14

  for people that hunt to hear us say like,

  00:41:49:23 - 00:41:52:04

  you need to quit doing that

  and just plant prairie.

  00:41:52:04 - 00:41:54:18

  Quit going after you.

  Why are you going after deer?

  00:41:54:18 - 00:41:59:21

  My, my whole goal is,

  Because I'm a strong believer in win wins.

  00:42:00:12 - 00:42:03:20

  My whole goal is, is to say that

  actually the working landscape,

  00:42:05:08 - 00:42:07:04

  works,

  00:42:07:04 - 00:42:10:14

  helps, you know,

  you're you're going to see bigger bucks,

  00:42:10:14 - 00:42:12:20

  you're going to see more,

  00:42:12:20 - 00:42:15:03

  more deer on your, your landscape.

  00:42:15:03 - 00:42:15:22

  And, actually,

  00:42:15:22 - 00:42:19:09

  we're working on a project right now

  with some of the with some of the,

  00:42:19:22 - 00:42:23:10

  big names in the White Hill industry

  and people who really believe

  00:42:23:10 - 00:42:27:04

  in, like, the working landscape and,

  and seeing these native perennials and

  00:42:27:04 - 00:42:28:09

  what they do for,

  00:42:29:20 - 00:42:31:08

  for the,

  00:42:31:08 - 00:42:34:03

  the not just the ecosystem, but hunting,

  you know,

  00:42:34:03 - 00:42:37:02

  the hunting goes better. So,

  00:42:37:02 - 00:42:40:11

  I as a non hunter, I got

  I got to be careful

  00:42:40:18 - 00:42:43:15

  because I don't want to say like,

  hey, this is the authority.

  00:42:43:15 - 00:42:45:14

  So I when I'm

  talking to people on the phone,

  00:42:45:14 - 00:42:49:04

  I lean a lot on like, well, this is what

  doctor Mark Turner says, right?

  00:42:49:11 - 00:42:53:09

  This is what skips live from Iowa

  White to the Iowa Whitetail Forum.

  00:42:53:09 - 00:42:54:20

  This is what he says.

  00:42:54:20 - 00:42:55:03

  You know,

  00:42:55:03 - 00:42:59:07

  and so I just start rolling through

  those things, and I've learned a lot.

  00:42:59:07 - 00:43:01:04

  And it's a big part of the reason

  we wanted to have you on.

  00:43:01:04 - 00:43:02:15

  Is just so.

  00:43:02:15 - 00:43:02:23

  That we,

  00:43:02:23 - 00:43:06:15

  you know, we could learn and really keep

  a pulse on where hunters are at because,

  00:43:07:14 - 00:43:10:21

  I don't believe because you're a hunter,

  you're conservationist.

  00:43:10:21 - 00:43:14:10

  I do like that the tags support things,

  but I will say

  00:43:15:03 - 00:43:18:22

  tons and tons and tons of the hunters

  that I interact with.

  00:43:19:02 - 00:43:21:12

  And I imagine that's what they're like,

  you know, even

  00:43:21:12 - 00:43:24:22

  the ones that don't interact with

  our conservation, they really do care.

  00:43:25:02 - 00:43:26:18

  So I think that's true.

  00:43:26:18 - 00:43:29:08

  And I don't want to take that away

  from hunters. But then I get to sit down.

  00:43:29:08 - 00:43:29:21

  I would like you,

  00:43:29:21 - 00:43:33:12

  Jared, and learn and be able to connect

  with them at a deeper level.

  00:43:34:03 - 00:43:37:17

  I would even go a little bit further,

  Nicolas, with that statement and say that

  00:43:37:23 - 00:43:41:10

  that, the best, like the, the,

  00:43:41:10 - 00:43:46:12

  the most passionate conservationists,

  not always probably,

  00:43:46:12 - 00:43:49:22

  but almost always participate

  in hunting as well.

  00:43:50:08 - 00:43:52:22

  And I think, I think that I think the,

  00:43:53:23 - 00:43:55:18

  reason,

  00:43:55:18 - 00:43:57:20

  that that is the case

  00:43:57:20 - 00:44:01:13

  is because they have a very

  00:44:01:21 - 00:44:05:10

  they have a very valuable stake in,

  00:44:08:00 - 00:44:09:16

  conservation working out.

  00:44:09:16 - 00:44:10:11

  Right.

  00:44:10:11 - 00:44:14:05

  They have they have a very,

  you know, a tangible thing

  00:44:14:05 - 00:44:18:14

  that they put a lot of time

  and a lot of money and, a lot of their

  00:44:18:18 - 00:44:21:22

  I mean, let's be honest, Jared,

  we we could both probably list.

  00:44:23:05 - 00:44:27:12

  I bet you we could go for 15 or 20 minutes

  between the two of us,

  00:44:27:12 - 00:44:32:13

  just going back and forth,

  listing people who live their life around,

  00:44:34:11 - 00:44:36:10

  deer and,

  00:44:36:10 - 00:44:41:17

  and, have a very strong conservation ethic

  because of that, you know, relationship

  00:44:41:17 - 00:44:46:10

  that care for or or some other animal

  like, you know, bear hunting, whatever.

  00:44:46:21 - 00:44:48:22

  But but,

  00:44:48:22 - 00:44:53:18

  I think, I think that a lot of hunters,

  it can be like this extra drive.

  00:44:53:18 - 00:44:56:00

  That was something

  Carol used to talk about a lot. Was,

  00:44:58:11 - 00:45:01:14

  In fact, is when I interviewed

  viewed here with you, Nicholas,

  00:45:01:14 - 00:45:04:16

  and I was when I first met Carol,

  and he talked about.

  00:45:04:16 - 00:45:07:16

  Well, it's good that you have drive,

  because that'll motivate you when,

  00:45:08:02 - 00:45:11:07

  times are hard, you know, and and,

  00:45:12:09 - 00:45:14:10

  I think that that drive

  00:45:14:10 - 00:45:19:19

  of having that hunting

  motivation, can be a huge

  00:45:19:19 - 00:45:25:05

  and, and has been through time,

  a huge motivator for folks who,

  00:45:26:18 - 00:45:27:22

  care about conservation.

  00:45:27:22 - 00:45:30:22

  Not always, but oftentimes is true.

  00:45:33:13 - 00:45:35:13

  Along those lines,

  00:45:35:13 - 00:45:38:13

  you know, of of,

  00:45:38:16 - 00:45:43:16

  you know, making good choices, that's,

  that's good for the land, but also having

  00:45:43:16 - 00:45:48:15

  an understanding for, where maybe

  some of these non-native plots make sense.

  00:45:49:16 - 00:45:52:15

  I, I got to witness this

  for the first time this spring.

  00:45:52:15 - 00:45:53:15

  Jared.

  00:45:53:15 - 00:45:56:04

  I got invited to, Shad hunt with a friend,

  00:45:57:05 - 00:45:59:15

  and, this

  00:45:59:15 - 00:46:02:17

  is, like, kind of in good sharing the land

  practice here.

  00:46:02:17 - 00:46:04:09

  Nicholas.

  00:46:04:09 - 00:46:06:04

  While I was there, they know that I.

  00:46:06:04 - 00:46:07:12

  I work on a prairie farm,

  00:46:07:12 - 00:46:10:18

  and they're like,

  hey, we got, some prairie that he's burned

  00:46:10:20 - 00:46:15:00

  per our CRP contract, and,

  we're kind of nervous about it.

  00:46:15:14 - 00:46:20:03

  And so, they had me, help them burn. And,

  00:46:21:14 - 00:46:23:08

  I was kind of nervous about it,

  to be honest with you,

  00:46:23:08 - 00:46:25:19

  because it's been so long since.

  00:46:25:19 - 00:46:31:10

  And I've done a few prairie burns

  where it's been, you know, your tent.

  00:46:31:11 - 00:46:34:11

  Most contracts

  require once every ten years.

  00:46:35:03 - 00:46:37:11

  And there's guys that go

  00:46:37:11 - 00:46:40:13

  that hold 9 or 10 years before they burn.

  00:46:40:13 - 00:46:43:13

  And there is so much,

  00:46:44:04 - 00:46:46:16

  my friend

  Luke Fritsch and I call under burn

  00:46:46:16 - 00:46:50:17

  that's going on where you have

  all this thatch close to the ground

  00:46:50:17 - 00:46:54:00

  that just stays so hot

  and just keeps burning and burning.

  00:46:54:22 - 00:46:56:18

  And so I was kind of nervous about it.

  00:46:56:18 - 00:47:00:22

  But what they had there

  because they were huge, whitetail guys is

  00:47:00:22 - 00:47:05:03

  they had a clover, firebreak

  around their prairies.

  00:47:05:15 - 00:47:08:02

  And man, did that work. Well.

  00:47:08:02 - 00:47:12:08

  And so I think that in the

  in the idea of a working landscape,

  00:47:12:08 - 00:47:17:02

  it makes a whole lot of sense to have that

  cool season firebreak growing.

  00:47:17:02 - 00:47:19:03

  Or some people plant

  some of that in their timber,

  00:47:19:03 - 00:47:22:14

  I'm sure, you know, to kind of keep things

  from going out of control on the timber,

  00:47:22:16 - 00:47:24:15

  because if it's a really green up time.

  00:47:24:15 - 00:47:26:02

  And so I think that's another great way.

  00:47:27:10 - 00:47:28:20

  Yeah, I, I agree with that.

  00:47:28:20 - 00:47:32:21

  We've done some work with, the Bee

  and Butterfly Habitat Fund

  00:47:32:21 - 00:47:35:21

  and some of the,

  the natives that they like to plant.

  00:47:36:18 - 00:47:40:15

  Our percentage, they like to have clover

  in there for some of the pollinators.

  00:47:40:15 - 00:47:45:17

  And that's exactly how I set it up

  as a firebreaks around that,

  00:47:45:17 - 00:47:48:22

  or even the CRP contract,

  you can have a certain percentage and,

  00:47:49:03 - 00:47:52:14

  and food plots or whatever else

  but the firebreak

  00:47:52:14 - 00:47:56:05

  like a clover firebreak that's benefiting

  2 or 3 things right there.

  00:47:56:05 - 00:47:58:01

  Right. Get your firebreak. Yeah.

  00:47:58:01 - 00:47:59:19

  Pollinating your feed and wildlife.

  00:47:59:19 - 00:48:02:14

  I mean, that's a win win win.

  00:48:02:14 - 00:48:03:08

  Yeah, yeah.

  00:48:03:08 - 00:48:04:03

  So I you know,

  00:48:04:03 - 00:48:08:03

  I think it's a great example

  of where a non-native species can be used.

  00:48:08:07 - 00:48:11:03

  And also guys do

  them for trails too you know.

  00:48:12:07 - 00:48:14:07

  If you're going to use,

  00:48:14:07 - 00:48:17:00

  you know, to kind of go

  back to what Nicholas was stating,

  00:48:17:00 - 00:48:20:16

  if we follow the logical progression

  of no,

  00:48:20:16 - 00:48:24:20

  if it's got to be 100% native

  100% of the time,

  00:48:26:07 - 00:48:28:06

  then should you really even have

  00:48:28:06 - 00:48:31:06

  trails on your property,

  maybe you should just,

  00:48:32:15 - 00:48:35:08

  you know, hoof it around your property

  00:48:35:08 - 00:48:39:10

  and walk, you know, through the timber

  like a deer would, you know, and, and,

  00:48:39:17 - 00:48:43:00

  so I think that even, you know,

  erosion control on some of those,

  00:48:43:10 - 00:48:46:14

  some of those trails, I think clover

  makes a lot of sense for that as well.

  00:48:47:16 - 00:48:48:04

  I, I'm.

  00:48:48:04 - 00:48:50:08

  Curious about like,

  00:48:50:08 - 00:48:53:08

  I've talked about it before, but

  you would have your pulse on it better.

  00:48:53:08 - 00:48:53:17

  Jared.

  00:48:53:17 - 00:48:59:01

  The the, evolution of hunters seems to be

  00:49:00:09 - 00:49:03:09

  they they kill Buck.

  00:49:03:12 - 00:49:05:20

  They want a bigger buck.

  They want a bigger buck.

  00:49:05:20 - 00:49:07:22

  And then,

  00:49:07:22 - 00:49:12:05

  they start to notice,

  you know, resource issues.

  00:49:12:13 - 00:49:14:11

  So they start to care about resources.

  00:49:14:11 - 00:49:17:09

  And then all of a sudden, they change from

  just caring about the resource

  00:49:17:09 - 00:49:23:11

  to like, overall conservation and birds

  and pollinators and, and soil and water.

  00:49:23:16 - 00:49:25:10

  And then somewhere in there

  00:49:25:10 - 00:49:28:03

  they start really caring

  about the next generation as well.

  00:49:28:03 - 00:49:30:12

  Not an exact science

  of how that evolution goes.

  00:49:30:12 - 00:49:33:14

  But, I'm curious

  if you've seen that and like

  00:49:33:14 - 00:49:36:14

  if you would speak to that at all.

  00:49:37:01 - 00:49:40:11

  Yeah, I think that's a pretty good, pulse,

  00:49:40:11 - 00:49:44:00

  I would say, you know, as, as a hunter.

  00:49:44:04 - 00:49:46:01

  And we covered this in a certain podcast.

  00:49:46:01 - 00:49:47:21

  I did a while back.

  I remember now that you're saying it,

  00:49:49:07 - 00:49:52:07

  you started

  out just wanting to shoot anything, right?

  00:49:52:14 - 00:49:56:13

  And then you want to shoot numbers,

  like a ton of deer or whatever,

  00:49:56:13 - 00:50:00:17

  and then it becomes, okay, maybe

  a certain Deer Age caliber, and then you,

  00:50:01:03 - 00:50:04:03

  like you said, you get into the habitats,

  if you want your kids.

  00:50:04:04 - 00:50:07:04

  So I would say the evolution

  is as pretty accurate.

  00:50:07:17 - 00:50:11:19

  And I would say I have definitely hit

  00:50:11:19 - 00:50:14:19

  that pretty close, you know,

  00:50:15:16 - 00:50:19:06

  starting to get,

  you know, more into land ownership,

  00:50:19:06 - 00:50:24:08

  spending my money on land

  and improving land in my time.

  00:50:24:08 - 00:50:27:08

  It's literally

  who I am, like, as a person.

  00:50:27:14 - 00:50:28:14

  But it didn't start that way.

  00:50:28:14 - 00:50:32:01

  So there's something

  I would say something along those lines,

  00:50:33:12 - 00:50:35:02

  is how a lot of people go.

  00:50:35:02 - 00:50:38:02

  Definitely.

  00:50:38:10 - 00:50:39:07

  Yeah, man.

  00:50:39:07 - 00:50:40:14

  What? What?

  00:50:40:14 - 00:50:44:04

  When in your have you been hunting

  since you were a kid?

  00:50:44:04 - 00:50:45:04

  Like when you start hunting?

  00:50:46:04 - 00:50:48:02

  Yeah, it's like 12.

  00:50:48:02 - 00:50:50:12

  So I'm 38, so.

  00:50:50:12 - 00:50:52:11

  Quite a while.

  00:50:52:11 - 00:50:53:16

  Yeah. Yeah.

  00:50:53:16 - 00:50:54:20

  4 or 5 years ago.

  00:50:54:20 - 00:50:57:14

  Yeah, man.

  00:50:57:14 - 00:50:58:09

  Oh, wow.

  00:50:58:09 - 00:51:00:18

  Thanks, man.

  00:51:00:18 - 00:51:02:02

  No, Ken's younger than you.

  00:51:02:02 - 00:51:02:09

  I think.

  00:51:02:09 - 00:51:04:11

  Technically,

  I'm just going based on, like,

  00:51:04:11 - 00:51:07:11

  I can hear his knees crack and stuff

  when he stands.

  00:51:07:17 - 00:51:08:23

  I don't know, whatever.

  00:51:08:23 - 00:51:11:18

  I'm in way better health than Nicholas.

  00:51:11:18 - 00:51:13:09

  Got you jealous of that.

  00:51:13:09 - 00:51:14:22

  So get.

  00:51:14:22 - 00:51:15:21

  Get what?

  00:51:15:21 - 00:51:16:06

  They were

  00:51:16:06 - 00:51:19:11

  where Howard weeds me, him and Riley,

  and he all of a sudden remember something.

  00:51:19:11 - 00:51:21:20

  Guys, on come out of this strike.

  00:51:21:20 - 00:51:24:03

  Cholesterol went down.

  00:51:24:03 - 00:51:26:02

  I was at the doctor's office,

  my cholesterol went down,

  00:51:26:02 - 00:51:28:19

  and I was like, man,

  that's so exciting for you, Kent.

  00:51:28:19 - 00:51:30:22

  Well, he hasn't stopped saying that.

  00:51:30:22 - 00:51:32:06

  He just on bad.

  00:51:32:06 - 00:51:35:07

  Yeah, man, they call me old every day. But

  00:51:37:05 - 00:51:38:11

  health wise, I'm.

  00:51:38:11 - 00:51:40:08

  Years younger than these. Guys.

  00:51:40:08 - 00:51:41:10

  We'll be making fun of them.

  00:51:41:10 - 00:51:44:16

  And he'll be like, don't worry, Kent,

  your cholesterol went down.

  00:51:44:16 - 00:51:45:19

  He's like saying it himself.

  00:51:45:19 - 00:51:47:18

  Like he's trying to encourage it.

  00:51:47:18 - 00:51:50:11

  So that's amazing.

  00:51:50:11 - 00:51:51:11

  I. Triglycerides are.

  00:51:51:11 - 00:51:53:05

  Down.

  00:51:53:05 - 00:51:55:08

  So I'm curious.

  00:51:55:08 - 00:51:55:22

  That's really.

  00:51:55:22 - 00:51:57:11

  Yeah. You gotta be

  gotta be tracking those.

  00:51:57:11 - 00:52:00:12

  Look guys, everyone out there,

  if you're over the age of 30,

  00:52:00:12 - 00:52:02:13

  you got to be going to your yearly doctor

  appointment.

  00:52:02:13 - 00:52:05:13

  I'm not quite there yet.

  00:52:05:13 - 00:52:08:13

  Okay, so you're hunting from 12.

  00:52:08:16 - 00:52:13:15

  When did you have the crazy idea of, like,

  you know what?

  00:52:14:02 - 00:52:17:08

  I'm going to start one of the first

  whitetail hunting podcasts.

  00:52:19:02 - 00:52:20:03

  Yeah. Great question.

  00:52:20:03 - 00:52:25:20

  So that was probably back in 2016,

  I'd say so.

  00:52:25:20 - 00:52:27:20

  Fresh out of college.

  00:52:27:20 - 00:52:32:05

  In the, in the,

  you know, corporate world driving commute,

  00:52:32:05 - 00:52:36:04

  doing all that fun

  stuff and, got really into,

  00:52:37:05 - 00:52:38:18

  the DMA, the

  00:52:38:18 - 00:52:41:23

  what used to be when I was NDA,

  they had a forum back

  00:52:41:23 - 00:52:44:23

  then, you know, before Facebook on it,

  the forums were popular.

  00:52:45:22 - 00:52:50:00

  And there was a,

  their forum was extremely knowledgeable.

  00:52:50:00 - 00:52:54:07

  I mean, guys like us three on there

  just highlighting their farms

  00:52:54:07 - 00:52:55:16

  and their projects.

  00:52:55:16 - 00:52:58:11

  It was, you know, the very niche part

  00:52:58:11 - 00:53:01:11

  of of the hunters that were on there.

  00:53:01:15 - 00:53:05:11

  And I just got enthralled with following

  along with people's forums.

  00:53:05:15 - 00:53:07:18

  They post a project about their

  00:53:07:18 - 00:53:10:03

  their 80 acres, what it looks like,

  and then you can follow it

  00:53:10:03 - 00:53:12:02

  through the years

  and all the projects they've done

  00:53:12:02 - 00:53:15:02

  and the cabin they build in the family,

  they brought out everything. Wow.

  00:53:15:15 - 00:53:20:05

  So I just liked doing that,

  and I wanted to get my own piece someday

  00:53:20:05 - 00:53:23:03

  so I could do that. Nobody in my family

  ever owned any, any land.

  00:53:23:03 - 00:53:26:07

  So I had this urge

  that I wanted to do that.

  00:53:26:07 - 00:53:29:05

  And then, yeah,

  I wanted to learn more about it.

  00:53:29:05 - 00:53:32:19

  So you can read and

  read and read all day long.

  00:53:33:18 - 00:53:36:02

  But I

  was I liked listening to podcasts, too.

  00:53:36:02 - 00:53:39:02

  So I'm like, you know what? Maybe I can,

  00:53:39:03 - 00:53:43:06

  you know, record some of these

  because my memory's not 1,000%.

  00:53:43:06 - 00:53:44:23

  So I can remember and go back

  00:53:44:23 - 00:53:47:23

  and have this stuff versus reading it

  and maybe forgetting some of it.

  00:53:48:20 - 00:53:51:05

  So that's kind of how that idea

  got started.

  00:53:51:05 - 00:53:55:04

  I was a big wired to hunt listener, as you

  know, I'm sure a lot of people were.

  00:53:56:02 - 00:53:58:01

  So Mark inspired me there.

  00:53:58:01 - 00:54:00:06

  And I just thought, you know,

  I know what he was talking about.

  00:54:00:06 - 00:54:02:00

  The habitat things.

  00:54:02:00 - 00:54:02:08

  Yeah.

  00:54:02:08 - 00:54:05:13

  So I owned habitat podcasts.com for like

  00:54:06:04 - 00:54:09:02

  a year and a half

  before I even did anything with it.

  00:54:09:02 - 00:54:09:20

  Oh, nice.

  00:54:09:20 - 00:54:12:19

  Which was, Well, yeah.

  00:54:12:19 - 00:54:16:08

  But I wish I would have fired off

  another year earlier into this.

  00:54:16:08 - 00:54:17:23

  Into this space. Right.

  00:54:17:23 - 00:54:22:20

  Without saturated, it gets now one year

  back then would have been monumental.

  00:54:23:05 - 00:54:24:07

  But, yeah.

  00:54:24:07 - 00:54:29:08

  So I just kind of this, this, this idea

  and then it got some traction and,

  00:54:30:09 - 00:54:31:19

  Shoot, man, haven't stopped since.

  00:54:31:19 - 00:54:33:08

  I think we're

  00:54:33:08 - 00:54:36:12

  over seven years, 340 something episodes.

  00:54:36:12 - 00:54:36:16

  Like.

  00:54:36:16 - 00:54:37:20

  How much time is that?

  00:54:37:20 - 00:54:40:14

  You know, it's so much time. Yeah.

  00:54:40:14 - 00:54:41:08

  Yeah.

  00:54:41:08 - 00:54:43:16

  It becomes becomes part of your life.

  00:54:43:16 - 00:54:44:18

  Really?

  00:54:44:18 - 00:54:46:11

  Are you guys know you guys are podcasters?

  00:54:46:11 - 00:54:48:07

  You get it?

  00:54:48:07 - 00:54:48:10

  Yeah.

  00:54:48:10 - 00:54:51:05

  And you know, when you're,

  00:54:51:05 - 00:54:54:04

  when you were doing it

  when you first started,

  00:54:54:04 - 00:54:57:04

  is there anything you would change?

  00:54:58:08 - 00:55:00:06

  Oh, see,

  00:55:00:06 - 00:55:00:17

  I don't know.

  00:55:00:17 - 00:55:03:11

  I think every everybody is

  00:55:03:11 - 00:55:06:12

  everybody's past kind of kind of writes

  the story

  00:55:06:12 - 00:55:09:12

  for how you get to where you are. But,

  00:55:10:09 - 00:55:11:16

  no, not exactly.

  00:55:11:16 - 00:55:14:16

  I mean, I guess the journal journalism

  side,

  00:55:14:16 - 00:55:17:16

  the skills and or the,

  00:55:17:18 - 00:55:18:18

  you know, the knowledge.

  00:55:18:18 - 00:55:21:07

  You know, I always wish

  you had more better of that. But,

  00:55:22:06 - 00:55:24:02

  you know, I wouldn't be.

  00:55:24:02 - 00:55:27:18

  You know, where I am now if I didn't start

  and keep keep chugging along.

  00:55:27:18 - 00:55:30:22

  So I guess I wouldn't really change

  too much of it.

  00:55:32:07 - 00:55:35:07

  You ever you ever go back and listen

  to some of those first episodes?

  00:55:36:07 - 00:55:38:04

  No. No.

  00:55:38:04 - 00:55:41:10

  Oh, wait. Do

  I want to. Delete them so bad?

  00:55:41:10 - 00:55:43:14

  But Jake Hofer was like,

  you can't delete those.

  00:55:43:14 - 00:55:44:23

  They're part of your story and was.

  00:55:44:23 - 00:55:48:20

  Like, oh, they're so terrible,

  but they're so good.

  00:55:48:20 - 00:55:49:15

  Good podcast.

  00:55:49:15 - 00:55:52:08

  But there's I know.

  Someone's got to go back and listen.

  00:55:52:08 - 00:55:54:03

  Well, here's

  something Jared could probably relate to.

  00:55:54:03 - 00:55:59:09

  And I mean, when you're a new podcaster,

  you aren't as good of a question asker.

  00:55:59:09 - 00:55:59:20

  You know, you

  00:55:59:20 - 00:56:01:18

  like you get you get better

  at that and better

  00:56:01:18 - 00:56:04:19

  at having good conversation

  on the show and stuff like that.

  00:56:04:19 - 00:56:08:04

  But you still can have

  some pretty amazing guests even in those

  00:56:08:04 - 00:56:12:21

  first few podcasts,

  that, that, that alone, you know,

  00:56:13:18 - 00:56:15:09

  the content that you get from there,

  00:56:15:09 - 00:56:18:07

  the insight you get from there

  just is so valuable.

  00:56:18:07 - 00:56:21:14

  Which brings me to something

  that I really wanted to ask you about.

  00:56:21:14 - 00:56:24:06

  And maybe you don't have a great

  answer for this. Jared, but,

  00:56:26:07 - 00:56:29:07

  The. The,

  00:56:29:08 - 00:56:34:02

  like practical application stuff, you've,

  you've had to just glean so much there.

  00:56:34:02 - 00:56:36:08

  300 and what what was it, 360.

  00:56:36:08 - 00:56:38:11

  Some episode 70. Some episodes.

  00:56:38:11 - 00:56:41:11

  I mean, you've

  you've talked with so many experts.

  00:56:41:11 - 00:56:44:15

  What I really want to know about

  and this would help us here at Hoxie,

  00:56:44:15 - 00:56:46:12

  even possibly.

  00:56:46:12 - 00:56:49:21

  You know,

  herbicide is a big part of doing,

  00:56:50:22 - 00:56:52:15

  habitat management work.

  00:56:52:15 - 00:56:54:01

  And I know if that is,

  00:56:54:01 - 00:56:56:23

  there's probably even regular podcast

  listeners that right now

  00:56:56:23 - 00:56:59:23

  are getting a little annoyed at me

  bringing it up because they,

  00:56:59:23 - 00:57:02:23

  they're anti any kind of pesticide.

  00:57:03:08 - 00:57:05:01

  And I can understand that point of view.

  00:57:05:01 - 00:57:08:01

  I don't I don't think that,

  00:57:08:02 - 00:57:11:14

  I, I don't think somebody is wrong

  if they choose to go that path.

  00:57:12:13 - 00:57:16:01

  But I do think that there is, there is

  00:57:18:12 - 00:57:21:12

  a false understanding that,

  00:57:22:05 - 00:57:24:16

  all farms could be managed

  00:57:24:16 - 00:57:31:22

  with all exclusion of pesticides

  and still have a lot of the things

  00:57:31:22 - 00:57:36:17

  that we want to have

  or even deemed necessary for.

  00:57:38:03 - 00:57:38:20

  Society.

  00:57:38:20 - 00:57:41:20

  So to me, the

  00:57:41:23 - 00:57:44:18

  probably the most base level example of

  00:57:44:18 - 00:57:48:18

  this is no till farming,

  no till farming means

  00:57:49:20 - 00:57:52:19

  you're going to have a lot of weed

  pressure.

  00:57:52:19 - 00:57:55:19

  Tillage wasn't just, create a nice,

  you know,

  00:57:55:19 - 00:58:00:20

  soft medium of soil for a good, easy

  planting season.

  00:58:01:07 - 00:58:02:13

  That was definitely a part of it.

  00:58:02:13 - 00:58:05:17

  Or incorporating fertilizer

  or things like that, that

  00:58:05:23 - 00:58:08:17

  it was used for breaking up compaction.

  00:58:08:17 - 00:58:11:17

  Part of it was weed management too.

  00:58:11:17 - 00:58:13:14

  No till cultivators.

  00:58:13:14 - 00:58:17:03

  We got a few old buffalo

  no till cultivators

  00:58:17:03 - 00:58:20:03

  sitting out here at Hoxie that,

  00:58:21:03 - 00:58:22:14

  Carroll experimented with

  00:58:22:14 - 00:58:26:15

  and in his early days of growing

  prairie plants in a no till fashion.

  00:58:26:15 - 00:58:30:07

  And the idea was you could run

  that shank down the down the,

  00:58:31:21 - 00:58:34:08

  you know, in between the rows of your,

  your,

  00:58:34:08 - 00:58:37:11

  production field

  and take care of some of the weed pressure

  00:58:38:00 - 00:58:41:10

  and, and so herbicides

  00:58:41:10 - 00:58:46:03

  have, have developed in tandem with, the,

  00:58:46:08 - 00:58:50:13

  the very wide adoption of, of,

  00:58:50:16 - 00:58:53:16

  no till farming practices and,

  00:58:56:07 - 00:59:00:15

  so to have and again,

  I don't really like kind of like,

  00:59:00:15 - 00:59:02:15

  I don't like the phrase

  hunting is conservation.

  00:59:02:15 - 00:59:05:10

  I don't like it when,

  00:59:05:10 - 00:59:08:10

  corn and being farmers

  say they're feeding the world.

  00:59:09:00 - 00:59:11:03

  Because I don't think that

  that's fully accurate either.

  00:59:11:03 - 00:59:14:03

  I think it, it is in some degrees or,

  00:59:14:05 - 00:59:17:05

  you know, in certain ways it is, but but,

  00:59:18:22 - 00:59:19:16

  I should say to

  00:59:19:16 - 00:59:23:05

  a certain degree is true,

  but not certainly not

  00:59:23:14 - 00:59:26:14

  in such a broad manner.

  00:59:27:12 - 00:59:28:08

  But it's like the fat

  00:59:28:08 - 00:59:31:10

  guys are gonna give me kids,

  so these guys are going to give me.

  00:59:31:10 - 00:59:34:02

  Yeah, I got stuff. Well, well. It,

  00:59:35:23 - 00:59:36:12

  I won't say it.

  00:59:36:12 - 00:59:38:02

  Look further and say there.

  00:59:38:02 - 00:59:41:02

  That we would get chance.

  00:59:41:17 - 00:59:44:11

  But, the,

  00:59:44:11 - 00:59:45:00

  a lot of the.

  00:59:45:00 - 00:59:47:11

  Food that the world. And.

  00:59:47:11 - 00:59:49:12

  Again,

  I don't even always like to call it food.

  00:59:49:12 - 00:59:50:20

  I like to call it calories.

  00:59:50:20 - 00:59:54:03

  A lot of the calories

  that the world consumes

  00:59:54:10 - 00:59:59:20

  does come from large scale

  industrial style agriculture.

  01:00:00:07 - 01:00:02:23

  And, if you want to have 8 billion

  01:00:02:23 - 01:00:05:23

  people, you gotta have enough calories

  to support 8 billion people.

  01:00:05:23 - 01:00:09:17

  And so herbicides are a necessary part

  to keep all these people that I think

  01:00:09:17 - 01:00:13:03

  we would all agree,

  even the most ardent anti

  01:00:13:04 - 01:00:16:04

  pesticide person would say,

  01:00:16:05 - 01:00:18:18

  you know, I don't really want to,

  you know, eliminate

  01:00:18:18 - 01:00:20:10

  a certain percentage of the world's

  01:00:20:10 - 01:00:23:14

  population to make it work

  that we don't need to grow that much food.

  01:00:23:14 - 01:00:24:03

  That would be,

  01:00:25:04 - 01:00:25:15

  I don't know,

  01:00:25:15 - 01:00:28:17

  what do they call it, like,

  genocidal or something like that?

  01:00:29:13 - 01:00:32:08

  That that would be terrible, right.

  01:00:32:08 - 01:00:35:08

  So the, like,

  01:00:35:13 - 01:00:37:21

  just working through the logic here,

  01:00:37:21 - 01:00:41:04

  I think that there is a place

  for pesticide use,

  01:00:41:15 - 01:00:44:22

  but it needs to be responsible

  and needs to be, calculated,

  01:00:44:22 - 01:00:47:22

  and it needs to be minimized

  where it can be.

  01:00:48:18 - 01:00:52:17

  That being said,

  leaving the food side of it and going more

  01:00:52:17 - 01:00:56:16

  to like the habitat management,

  like what Jared, you do and,

  01:00:57:04 - 01:01:00:04

  prairie establishment, like all of us do.

  01:01:01:15 - 01:01:03:14

  In places like the Midwest,

  01:01:03:14 - 01:01:06:14

  where we have such fertile soils

  01:01:07:05 - 01:01:09:22

  and so many centuries

  01:01:09:22 - 01:01:14:08

  of invasive of plants that have,

  01:01:15:04 - 01:01:17:22

  taken hold, here

  01:01:17:22 - 01:01:21:09

  in and, you know, in an invasive

  01:01:21:09 - 01:01:25:03

  way, want to establish themselves

  in a monoculture fashion.

  01:01:26:13 - 01:01:28:13

  Herbicide is a critically important

  01:01:28:13 - 01:01:31:13

  tool to try and regain the upper hand.

  01:01:32:23 - 01:01:35:11

  And so if you're listening to this, don't

  just tune this out.

  01:01:35:11 - 01:01:38:20

  Listen to what you know,

  what we worked through here,

  01:01:39:16 - 01:01:42:16

  but have you come across

  01:01:42:19 - 01:01:44:18

  any herbicides

  01:01:44:18 - 01:01:48:07

  that you have found particularly helpful

  in maybe

  01:01:48:07 - 01:01:51:07

  preparing the way

  for a new prairie planting,

  01:01:51:12 - 01:01:55:03

  or maybe encouraging that native

  seed bank to come back without,

  01:01:55:11 - 01:01:59:16

  you know, by getting rid of the invasives

  and not harming the the natives?

  01:02:00:00 - 01:02:03:00

  Do you have any off

  the or like a regimen that you do?

  01:02:03:00 - 01:02:06:00

  That's kind of a go to thing

  that you wouldn't mind sharing.

  01:02:06:02 - 01:02:06:19

  Yeah.

  01:02:06:19 - 01:02:08:17

  And great, great comments there.

  01:02:08:17 - 01:02:11:17

  Seeing this up, I, I would agree

  01:02:13:00 - 01:02:16:01

  I would not want to have to manage

  01:02:17:01 - 01:02:19:07

  all my property or any property with,

  01:02:19:07 - 01:02:22:11

  without the use of some herbicide.

  01:02:23:11 - 01:02:26:09

  Sure, it can be done,

  but it's going to be an uphill battle.

  01:02:26:09 - 01:02:27:16

  It's tough, cool season.

  01:02:27:16 - 01:02:29:10

  Grasses are an enemy of mine.

  01:02:29:10 - 01:02:33:05

  So I like there's

  there's three that I use.

  01:02:33:05 - 01:02:36:05

  When you were asking the question,

  I was thinking about it.

  01:02:36:17 - 01:02:39:11

  And when I use herbicides, I use them

  01:02:39:11 - 01:02:42:11

  maybe twice a year.

  01:02:43:08 - 01:02:44:23

  But again, it depends

  if you're treating invasives

  01:02:44:23 - 01:02:47:01

  or this and that, that can be spread out.

  01:02:47:01 - 01:02:49:03

  But Yeah.

  01:02:49:03 - 01:02:52:11

  So and giving a prairie or native grasses

  establish

  01:02:52:13 - 01:02:55:14

  I'll use glyphosate in the fall.

  01:02:56:21 - 01:03:00:04

  On an area

  after, you know, when it's cool season.

  01:03:00:04 - 01:03:02:13

  Time to kill the grasses and prep that.

  01:03:02:13 - 01:03:02:16

  Yeah.

  01:03:02:16 - 01:03:06:11

  Walk, walk us, walk us through the walk us

  through the conditions there.

  01:03:06:11 - 01:03:07:01

  When? Sure.

  01:03:07:01 - 01:03:08:13

  When what are you looking for?

  01:03:08:13 - 01:03:10:07

  And like the weather forecast or what?

  01:03:10:07 - 01:03:13:06

  What are you looking for

  on the ground? That kind of thing?

  01:03:13:06 - 01:03:17:05

  Yeah, I'd like to, if I'm going to say

  plant some native grasses.

  01:03:18:12 - 01:03:19:14

  I like to wait till

  01:03:19:14 - 01:03:22:19

  like October, early October

  and I'll spray,

  01:03:23:19 - 01:03:29:13

  glyphosate

  to kill any cool season plants that are,

  01:03:29:13 - 01:03:33:01

  that are there that are going to be

  the first to rise in the spring as well.

  01:03:33:01 - 01:03:36:01

  So that being said,

  01:03:36:11 - 01:03:38:15

  I'll wipe that out in the fall after the

  01:03:38:15 - 01:03:43:16

  the warm season stuff is is already dead

  or dead or dying for the year.

  01:03:44:12 - 01:03:47:22

  Then that spring I'll use

  if I don't frost seed

  01:03:47:22 - 01:03:50:22

  or even if I do frosty

  the natives, I'll use

  01:03:51:19 - 01:03:53:15

  them as a pre-emergent.

  01:03:53:15 - 01:03:57:16

  Okay, try to get some of those cool season

  grasses that are going to come up

  01:03:57:16 - 01:04:01:05

  and compete with my prairie style grasses.

  01:04:02:03 - 01:04:04:22

  Withhold them a little bit if you can.

  01:04:04:22 - 01:04:07:11

  And that's really that's really. Yeah.

  01:04:07:11 - 01:04:11:18

  I use platinum as well for grass treatment

  among maybe

  01:04:11:18 - 01:04:15:20

  a clover stand or something like that,

  if they get too overtaken with grasses.

  01:04:16:21 - 01:04:17:16

  Sure.

  01:04:17:16 - 01:04:22:08

  I just think

  herbicides are a tool in your tool belt.

  01:04:22:08 - 01:04:27:09

  I know it's cliche, but it's it's

  how I view it and I use them sparingly.

  01:04:27:09 - 01:04:30:20

  I do, I follow the label,

  I use them maybe twice a year.

  01:04:32:10 - 01:04:35:15

  And I think it's a it's responsible

  to don't.

  01:04:35:17 - 01:04:37:00

  More is not always better.

  01:04:37:00 - 01:04:38:18

  You don't need more.

  01:04:38:18 - 01:04:39:07

  Yeah.

  01:04:39:07 - 01:04:41:19

  And I think that if you just,

  01:04:41:19 - 01:04:46:06

  you don't have to go all no herbicide

  and you don't have to go

  01:04:46:06 - 01:04:49:06

  to the full on where you just dump

  and roundup everywhere.

  01:04:49:09 - 01:04:51:14

  I think there's definitely a safe,

  01:04:51:14 - 01:04:54:20

  happy medium to, to be effective

  because the plants

  01:04:54:20 - 01:04:57:20

  that you guys are trying to establish

  and then I'm trying to establish,

  01:04:58:18 - 01:05:01:11

  the, you know, the invasives

  and the courses and stuff

  01:05:01:11 - 01:05:04:17

  are way more prolific and can

  and can smoke that stuff right out.

  01:05:04:17 - 01:05:09:01

  So it's very necessary, in my opinion, when you, when establishing stuff like this.

  01:05:10:07 - 01:05:10:14

  Yeah.

  01:05:10:14 - 01:05:10:19

  Yeah.

  01:05:10:19 - 01:05:14:00

  You can, you can literally waste, seeding

  01:05:14:05 - 01:05:17:05

  if you don't have the right preparation

  down.

  01:05:17:10 - 01:05:21:12

  And yeah, it's, it's neat to, to hear

  what other people do.

  01:05:21:12 - 01:05:23:07

  And you've,

  you've had some pretty good success

  01:05:23:07 - 01:05:27:18

  with that, with establishing your prairie

  with that, that glyphosate and same gene.

  01:05:28:16 - 01:05:30:17

  Simson.

  01:05:30:17 - 01:05:32:06

  Regimen. Yes.

  01:05:32:06 - 01:05:33:23

  Yep, yep.

  01:05:33:23 - 01:05:36:17

  Well, even this year and

  01:05:36:17 - 01:05:37:20

  I'll go ahead.

  01:05:37:20 - 01:05:40:15

  What I was just going to ask,

  when do you plant?

  01:05:40:15 - 01:05:41:16

  After the summer.

  01:05:41:16 - 01:05:44:16

  Because it's 1760 day

  that you need to wait or.

  01:05:46:09 - 01:05:48:15

  You know, I did it this year

  01:05:48:15 - 01:05:51:15

  and I'm I'm always experimenting, too.

  01:05:52:16 - 01:05:53:22

  I mixed it this year.

  01:05:53:22 - 01:05:57:19

  I had I had a power line

  that was worked up from an ice storm up

  01:05:57:19 - 01:05:59:05

  north to the crews were in there

  01:05:59:05 - 01:06:03:03

  doing new lines and stuff all spring,

  and it was just bare dirt.

  01:06:04:19 - 01:06:07:19

  So what I did was I applied some scene

  01:06:08:14 - 01:06:10:10

  and then I, we just did a little bit

  01:06:10:10 - 01:06:13:16

  was to get something going,

  I'll maybe work the ground.

  01:06:13:16 - 01:06:17:02

  And then I applied the

  something right then and planted,

  01:06:18:09 - 01:06:21:09

  at the same time

  I planted some, some switchgrass

  01:06:21:14 - 01:06:25:06

  and as this amazing effectiveness,

  01:06:25:23 - 01:06:29:20

  went away, the switchgrass germinated,

  set roots and took off.

  01:06:29:20 - 01:06:31:15

  And this was Father's Day.

  01:06:31:15 - 01:06:34:08

  So we're talking early June.

  01:06:34:08 - 01:06:36:10

  And now right now, I have like, 6 to 8

  01:06:36:10 - 01:06:39:10

  inch tall switchgrass in that spot.

  01:06:40:04 - 01:06:42:09

  Not a lot of weed pressure resting.

  01:06:42:09 - 01:06:45:13

  But in the past, I've always

  I frost seeded

  01:06:46:06 - 01:06:50:01

  and then I had the 70,

  but I only had a certain amount of time.

  01:06:50:01 - 01:06:53:05

  I'm like, I'm going to try to plant this

  in June and see what happens.

  01:06:53:05 - 01:06:55:14

  And, and, ended up

  working out really well.

  01:06:55:14 - 01:07:01:05

  So the residual, I think, determines

  how much you want to put in there as well.

  01:07:01:13 - 01:07:05:18

  I did like a lighter treatment, but, yeah,

  you got to watch that residual nickel

  01:07:05:20 - 01:07:08:21

  as to how long that stays

  active in the soil for, along with,

  01:07:09:00 - 01:07:10:13

  you know, any any herbicide, really.

  01:07:12:05 - 01:07:14:04

  And, and the other,

  01:07:14:04 - 01:07:17:18

  the other so that, you know, and then also

  when you're doing a monoculture of just

  01:07:17:18 - 01:07:20:18

  switchgrass, you know,

  that takes a lot of variables to.

  01:07:20:20 - 01:07:23:06

  So you do have to be careful,

  you know, read your labels.

  01:07:23:06 - 01:07:25:10

  It's amazing

  what all is included in those labels.

  01:07:25:10 - 01:07:28:11

  I mean, they break it down

  by species of common weeds, but also,

  01:07:29:03 - 01:07:31:18

  maybe some things

  that you would want to have in there.

  01:07:31:18 - 01:07:36:00

  A lot of times I found on labels and,

  you know, just do your research

  01:07:36:00 - 01:07:39:00

  and make sure that it's

  going to be compatible with your mix.

  01:07:39:13 - 01:07:43:01

  Nicholas and I are working on a theory

  right now, so I'm not going to.

  01:07:43:05 - 01:07:46:05

  It has to do with native annual weeds.

  01:07:46:17 - 01:07:49:21

  But we're not going to

  we're not going to reveal our theory,

  01:07:50:01 - 01:07:53:15

  until we get some,

  expert, expert weigh in on it.

  01:07:54:02 - 01:07:55:18

  But I think it could help people,

  01:07:56:23 - 01:07:59:09

  you know, feel

  better about their prairie establishment

  01:07:59:09 - 01:08:03:09

  and be more patient

  with the ugly phase, and,

  01:08:05:00 - 01:08:07:20

  you know, have,

  because that is part of it, too, you know,

  01:08:07:20 - 01:08:12:05

  those first few years and also have

  maybe some better mowing practices that,

  01:08:13:19 - 01:08:17:20

  foster more diversity

  coming from your seedling.

  01:08:18:12 - 01:08:21:12

  If it's if it's a prairie,

  that is planted.

  01:08:21:12 - 01:08:24:16

  So, yeah, that's

  that's all good insight there for sure.

  01:08:27:12 - 01:08:28:08

  Oh, sorry.

  01:08:28:08 - 01:08:30:02

  I, I was,

  I was going to follow up on that.

  01:08:30:02 - 01:08:31:14

  What what is.

  01:08:31:14 - 01:08:34:06

  And maybe you haven't really

  come across this problem yet, Jared.

  01:08:34:06 - 01:08:39:14

  But if you do have a prairie that comes up

  and you're just seeing that man,

  01:08:39:21 - 01:08:43:17

  I thought I had a good, you know,

  I thought I got things prepared well,

  01:08:44:01 - 01:08:48:09

  but man, it's really getting dominated

  by a handful of different weed species.

  01:08:49:06 - 01:08:51:11

  Is there anything that that is like your

  01:08:51:11 - 01:08:55:06

  go to method for, you know,

  like a really spotty, weedy prairie?

  01:08:56:14 - 01:08:58:04

  Well, I'd say,

  01:08:58:04 - 01:09:01:04

  mowing would work for something like that.

  01:09:01:11 - 01:09:02:10

  Depending.

  01:09:02:10 - 01:09:05:10

  And that's what usually how I do

  some of the switchgrass stuff.

  01:09:05:17 - 01:09:06:13

  A good mow.

  01:09:06:13 - 01:09:10:13

  We'll take out a lot of some of the,

  you know, herbaceous stuff,

  01:09:10:13 - 01:09:13:13

  this little stuff like that

  you don't really want in there.

  01:09:13:21 - 01:09:15:17

  You guys know your, your prairie

  01:09:15:17 - 01:09:18:20

  establishments, to control

  some of the weeds like that.

  01:09:18:20 - 01:09:21:13

  To first year and a half is usually.

  01:09:21:13 - 01:09:21:22

  Yeah.

  01:09:21:22 - 01:09:22:23

  Yep, yep.

  01:09:22:23 - 01:09:25:23

  So, like, the first year we keep it mowed.

  01:09:26:08 - 01:09:28:19

  And then the second year

  that always taught us

  01:09:28:19 - 01:09:31:00

  keep it mowed until the 4th of July.

  01:09:31:00 - 01:09:33:22

  And then, from there, you should,

  01:09:33:22 - 01:09:38:05

  get your first kind of prairie grass

  stand that second year.

  01:09:38:05 - 01:09:39:16

  And then the next year, the Forbes

  01:09:39:16 - 01:09:42:16

  kind of do their thing as well

  in that third year.

  01:09:42:18 - 01:09:45:18

  But three years is a lot to, to,

  01:09:46:01 - 01:09:49:17

  on the front end when someone calls

  and they say, hey, I want to spend $2,000.

  01:09:49:17 - 01:09:52:06

  And I say, awesome,

  you're going to see it in three years.

  01:09:52:06 - 01:09:54:02

  You know, that that's a tough sell. But,

  01:09:55:14 - 01:09:56:19

  but, you know, people think, yeah.

  01:09:56:19 - 01:09:59:01

  If you do. The patience here.

  01:09:59:01 - 01:10:02:03

  And if you do the right,

  if you do the the work the right way,

  01:10:02:03 - 01:10:05:16

  I mean, the payoff is just so huge

  and long lasting.

  01:10:05:16 - 01:10:09:11

  You know, it's a long term

  it's a long term, payout.

  01:10:09:11 - 01:10:10:19

  So yeah,

  01:10:10:19 - 01:10:14:21

  I think, I think it's all important stuff

  that helps lower the barrier to people

  01:10:14:21 - 01:10:18:07

  getting involved with with, using Prairie

  as part of their habitat plans.

  01:10:18:20 - 01:10:19:08

  All right.

  01:10:19:08 - 01:10:22:06

  But so we'll have to go here

  in a little bit, Jared.

  01:10:22:06 - 01:10:23:20

  But, a couple things.

  01:10:23:20 - 01:10:27:20

  First, I want to go through a little bit

  of a lightning round to help me understand

  01:10:27:20 - 01:10:29:06

  deer hunting better.

  01:10:29:06 - 01:10:30:23

  And then,

  01:10:30:23 - 01:10:33:23

  we can move on from there, but you ready?

  01:10:34:08 - 01:10:35:02

  You get a pic?

  01:10:35:02 - 01:10:37:22

  Yeah, let's do it. To do one of the.

  01:10:37:22 - 01:10:41:10

  You get to pick

  one of the two to do really, really well.

  01:10:41:14 - 01:10:41:23

  Okay.

  01:10:44:23 - 01:10:48:02

  Betting or, food plot.

  01:10:51:03 - 01:10:52:23

  Betting.

  01:10:52:23 - 01:10:53:14

  Okay.

  01:10:53:14 - 01:10:56:14

  Betting or water source?

  01:10:58:00 - 01:11:01:00

  Betting.

  01:11:03:05 - 01:11:03:21

  Okay.

  01:11:03:21 - 01:11:06:21

  Betting or south facing slope.

  01:11:08:17 - 01:11:11:13

  One in the same betting.

  01:11:11:13 - 01:11:12:20

  Okay.

  01:11:12:20 - 01:11:15:20

  Betting on south for,

  01:11:18:08 - 01:11:19:10

  Yeah, yeah.

  01:11:19:10 - 01:11:20:14

  What?

  01:11:20:14 - 01:11:25:03

  Betting or, you talk a lot about, cover.

  01:11:25:07 - 01:11:27:11

  And to me, they seem different.

  01:11:27:11 - 01:11:30:11

  But maybe you're about to tell me

  they're the same.

  01:11:31:19 - 01:11:32:08

  Exactly.

  01:11:32:08 - 01:11:35:03

  I want to expound on what I mean

  by betting.

  01:11:35:03 - 01:11:39:10

  At some point in the lightning round,

  betting can be food and cover.

  01:11:39:13 - 01:11:42:22

  So that's why it to me, it it wins.

  01:11:43:22 - 01:11:45:22

  It's it's the best part.

  01:11:45:22 - 01:11:49:06

  And also with our,

  with our crazy deer here in Michigan,

  01:11:49:23 - 01:11:54:17

  we have a lot of hunting pressure,

  so cover works well here to, to foster

  01:11:55:11 - 01:11:58:11

  the stuff that I'm looking for.

  01:12:00:23 - 01:12:02:03

  Awesome.

  01:12:02:03 - 01:12:04:04

  Yeah, I think that I think that,

  01:12:06:17 - 01:12:09:17

  you know, when you.

  01:12:09:19 - 01:12:13:03

  Well, I think kind of playing off of that,

  Jared,

  01:12:14:00 - 01:12:17:22

  the the thing that is, is a hard

  01:12:17:22 - 01:12:20:22

  one for me to answer is the amount of,

  01:12:22:09 - 01:12:26:14

  like, grassland type habitat cover

  01:12:27:00 - 01:12:32:02

  versus timber timbered cover, you know,

  and what's what's the,

  01:12:32:19 - 01:12:36:05

  what's the,

  you know, ratio you want on, on a farm.

  01:12:36:23 - 01:12:39:11

  But I think we can agree that

  01:12:39:11 - 01:12:42:11

  if you have no trees,

  01:12:43:14 - 01:12:46:06

  you just really it's really hard

  01:12:46:06 - 01:12:49:06

  to come across

  any kind of concentration of deer.

  01:12:50:15 - 01:12:52:22

  And so in Michigan,

  01:12:52:22 - 01:12:56:01

  you guys have way more force at acres

  than what we have here.

  01:12:56:01 - 01:12:59:03

  And it's in Iowa

  throughout much of the state.

  01:13:00:12 - 01:13:02:22

  What's, I mean, if you guys,

  01:13:02:22 - 01:13:06:02

  I gotta think that if you guys just left a

  01:13:06:12 - 01:13:10:14

  if you had a, you know,

  let's say you bought, like, a, a,

  01:13:11:15 - 01:13:14:22

  40 acre production

  field, and if you just walked away

  01:13:14:22 - 01:13:17:23

  from that for 25 years,

  it would be a forced.

  01:13:19:08 - 01:13:22:00

  Is is the way I can understand it?

  01:13:22:00 - 01:13:25:00

  So, so, I guess to kind of conclude

  01:13:25:00 - 01:13:28:00

  our lightning round here, what would be,

  01:13:29:03 - 01:13:32:23

  what would be the right ratio you're

  shooting for with that betting cover?

  01:13:33:09 - 01:13:35:05

  How much of it

  would you want wooded versus

  01:13:35:05 - 01:13:38:05

  how much would you want in, grassland?

  01:13:38:18 - 01:13:39:01

  Yeah.

  01:13:39:01 - 01:13:44:07

  I don't know if I have an exact

  percentage on that is more of.

  01:13:44:07 - 01:13:47:02

  I want both and I want diversity.

  01:13:47:02 - 01:13:49:21

  I think that if you have an open field,

  01:13:49:21 - 01:13:53:07

  like one of my clients

  who just worked with, he is all open.

  01:13:53:18 - 01:13:56:11

  We planted a native grass mix there.

  01:13:56:11 - 01:13:59:15

  We burned it, planted it like

  that's going to be the prescription there.

  01:13:59:15 - 01:14:00:18

  I'm not going to

  01:14:00:18 - 01:14:05:04

  I'm not going to go plant, you know,

  a thousand oak trees and wait 20 years.

  01:14:05:04 - 01:14:08:17

  What I can do a prairie,

  and get my goals achieved there.

  01:14:08:17 - 01:14:12:14

  So I think it depends on what you're

  dealing with if you have an open farm

  01:14:12:14 - 01:14:14:06

  or a wooded farm. But,

  01:14:15:15 - 01:14:17:06

  if you're all wooded,

  01:14:17:06 - 01:14:20:19

  you know, it's hard

  to get a prairie established in the woods.

  01:14:20:19 - 01:14:23:20

  So you have to kind of deal

  with what you're working with.

  01:14:23:20 - 01:14:27:04

  If I could,

  if I could perfectly set it up,

  01:14:28:00 - 01:14:32:01

  I think 5050 of of prairie and woods,

  01:14:32:21 - 01:14:36:20

  thinking of this farm in Iowa that I'm in

  hunt this fall is the most gorgeous farm,

  01:14:37:07 - 01:14:40:17

  and it's literally

  what it draws with Prairie,

  01:14:41:15 - 01:14:44:15

  as you know, sirup contract throughout,

  throughout there.

  01:14:44:15 - 01:14:47:15

  And they don't even even worry

  about food plots.

  01:14:47:20 - 01:14:48:09

  Maybe a little.

  01:14:48:09 - 01:14:53:05

  My little plot here and there,

  but it's I would probably do like a 5050.

  01:14:53:05 - 01:14:56:10

  But what's more important to me

  is diversity on the parcel

  01:14:57:01 - 01:14:59:18

  without having half the woods

  and the prairie, if you can.

  01:15:01:03 - 01:15:01:23

  Yeah.

  01:15:01:23 - 01:15:05:03

  So is that better than what

  I was talking about with with Nick is,

  01:15:05:23 - 01:15:08:23

  you know, early successional habitat,

  anything,

  01:15:08:23 - 01:15:12:11

  you know, five foot and below

  is what matters to the critters, right?

  01:15:12:11 - 01:15:14:11

  So, for the most part.

  01:15:14:11 - 01:15:17:08

  So if we can get that, you know, like,

  01:15:17:08 - 01:15:20:08

  I'm trying to make an oak savanna

  in my woods right now.

  01:15:22:01 - 01:15:22:20

  That's that's some.

  01:15:22:20 - 01:15:25:11

  That's what I'm looking for.

  That's what I like.

  01:15:25:11 - 01:15:27:02

  Right? Yeah. That's great.

  01:15:27:02 - 01:15:28:16

  I like that answer.

  01:15:28:16 - 01:15:29:05

  Okay.

  01:15:29:05 - 01:15:32:05

  Nicholas, you want to wrap this one up?

  01:15:33:01 - 01:15:33:17

  Yeah.

  01:15:33:17 - 01:15:34:19

  I definitely can.

  01:15:34:19 - 01:15:37:03

  Well, my internet's pooping on me.

  01:15:37:03 - 01:15:38:08

  Guys, I'm so sorry.

  01:15:38:08 - 01:15:41:14

  I, it'll just force me to have to go back

  and listen to it,

  01:15:41:14 - 01:15:44:14

  and and that'll be good for me. But,

  Jared,

  01:15:45:07 - 01:15:48:04

  you obviously carry a ton of knowledge.

  01:15:48:04 - 01:15:52:11

  I mean, an authority on on habitat

  for, for whitetail deer.

  01:15:54:04 - 01:15:57:12

  I'm curious if people are like,

  I need to know more about this guy.

  01:15:57:12 - 01:15:59:20

  Where can they find you?

  01:15:59:20 - 01:16:00:07

  Yeah. Thank you.

  01:16:00:07 - 01:16:03:00

  Nicholas, I appreciate the kind words.

  01:16:03:00 - 01:16:06:07

  Habitat podcast is the podcast,

  so I got the kids running around

  01:16:06:07 - 01:16:08:02

  like crazy in here.

  01:16:08:02 - 01:16:10:15

  The. Habitat podcast and. All that,

  I guess.

  01:16:10:15 - 01:16:13:13

  Yeah, it's it's, it's a good time.

  01:16:13:13 - 01:16:16:06

  We've interviewed, you know, hundreds

  01:16:16:06 - 01:16:20:06

  of folks on there,

  and just I, I'm passionate about it.

  01:16:20:06 - 01:16:24:11

  I love applying everybody's ideas.

  01:16:24:11 - 01:16:26:07

  You're talking to you guys here today,

  01:16:26:07 - 01:16:31:00

  even, to kind of my my portrait,

  if you will.

  01:16:31:00 - 01:16:34:01

  So the habitat podcast, we talk about

  just making your land better

  01:16:34:01 - 01:16:35:19

  for wildlife habitat.

  01:16:35:19 - 01:16:39:09

  Naturally hunting

  you know, improves with that.

  01:16:39:19 - 01:16:42:19

  So habitat podcast.com.

  01:16:43:11 - 01:16:44:06

  Yeah.

  01:16:44:06 - 01:16:46:03

  That's awesome.

  01:16:46:03 - 01:16:50:07

  Well, you guys just as strong of a mind

  as Jared has.

  01:16:50:19 - 01:16:53:20

  We know that conservation

  can only move forward

  01:16:53:20 - 01:16:57:04

  and can only happen one mind at a time.