Kent Boucher (00:00.906) It happens. There are specific. mean, I don't I don't know the last time I said that word here are the things that come out of Nicholas's mouth when he's Keith Horn (00:08.982) Not a lot of That's that's for it. Kent Boucher (00:11.426) Mike check Mike check I'm checking I'm coming up Judd check check check check. Yeah, you look great and Keith Always we did it everybody's on a camera. Everybody's got a mic. yeah double checked them Alright, so we gotta do Keith's title first. Yeah, so a couple things one You want to keep your mouth pretty close to that thing which what you're doing? You're doing pretty good. Just like that Keith Horn (00:22.378) Check check check check check check Kent Boucher (00:39.918) The other thing I would say that we're going to do is we're going to do an intro. So your intro is your name, your title, and this is the Prairie Farm podcast. Mine would be, hello, I'm Nicholas Lirio with Hoxie Native Seeds, and this is the Prairie Farm podcast. You'll do that while you look at this camera. You can do it a hundred times if you want, no problem. But name, title, and this is the Prairie Farm podcast. And then we'll jump in, talk about Prairie, talk about your land. I think that's, you got an epic place going on. Is what I've heard. So this place a little shout. Absolutely. We need to give this place a little shout. What's this place called? Skyline market. Skyland markets. Skyline market. All right. Whenever you're ready, you do your intro and then I'll edit it up later and then we'll jump in. Keith Horn (01:24.842) Okay. Hi, I'm Keith Horn, owner of Horn's Prairie Grove Land Water Reserve Prairie, and just outside of Ramsey, Illinois. And what else do want to know? Kent Boucher (01:37.56) just say, this is the Prairie Farms. Keith Horn (01:39.282) This is the Prairie podcast. I'm sorry. This is the Prairie Farm podcast live. Kent Boucher (01:41.998) Prairie Farm. Kent Boucher (01:47.507) Beautiful. Yeah. it. All right. Ready? Yeah. Whenever you're. In three, two, one. Keith, how long have you owned the prairie that you have, I guess, become well known for? Keith Horn (02:07.982) We bought it in 2001. You wanna hear the whole story? Yeah. Okay. It was in third week of April of 2001. I was coming up to go mushroom hunting on our other property that's northwest of here. And the wife and I was talking about buying five, 10, 15 acres of property up in this area. And then when we get ready to retire, which is about now, that we maybe move up here. because things are a little cheaper and a little more laid back. So anyways, I stopped at the local Casey's gas station there to get a coffee and a donut before I was gonna go up and go mushroom hunting. And just down the road, like a block down the road down the street, there was a sign just listed, 40-80 acres for sale, some timber. So I thought, well, what the heck, I'll go out and check on it real quick before I go up and go mushroom hunting. So it said follow the signs. So I followed the signs out to the property. And when I got there, I called the real estate people and they said they just put the sign up the evening before. I was the first one to call on it. Wow. So they said, you want us to send somebody up or they said we got all the corners located with a survey. I said, I can find that. said, I'm in construction. I know how to do that. Kent Boucher (03:33.004) Mind if I find some mushrooms while I'm finding the fork? Keith Horn (03:35.662) I found a few when I was walking through the woods. There's about eight and a half acres of native oak, hickory and walnut woodlands with it. of along the south border there's some big white oaks in there four foot in diameter and at 250 plus years old that was there when this was all Savannah prairie up in here more so than open prairie, but well it was open prairie but not like up north further. Anyways, so when I and back in High school my last junior senior year in high school. took forestry and So I knew a lot of the trees and that so I'm walking around and went through the woods first and it was just full of wildflowers bluebells cut cut leaf toothwort and stuff like that spring beauties and I was thinking it had a lot of dogwoods and my wife's from North Alabama. She likes dogwoods. So this was on a Saturday. She was working at the local bank. So I started walking around and I went through the woods in about an hour and a half, two hours, and then I was just gonna cut across the open metal, grass metals, and that and hit the other patch of timber to the north. And when I did that, I got out in them open grass fields. There was all kinds of wildflowers out there. I had no idea what they were. So anyways, I walked around for over four hours and... Why? Kent Boucher (05:01.912) Why were you hanging out for over four hours? Keith Horn (05:05.218) Because it was so thrilled to see, it was just full of wild flowers. I'd never seen that before. I mean, especially a lot of my, I mean in the woods there was bluebells and stuff. I knew those, I knew a few of them. But out in Open Prairie there was, come to find out there was, I can't think, I'm nervous. Kent Boucher (05:29.168) No, no, no, you're good. You're good. Keith Horn (05:34.06) shooting stars. wow. The wild hyacinths, Camassia. Yeah. Stuff like that. I had never seen that. speaker-2 (05:36.142) Yep Kent Boucher (05:42.36) big deal. No, most people have never seen Keith Horn (05:44.756) So I was thinking what the heck kind of flattered these so I had no clue So I walked around for over four hours and made it back to my truck and then I called the real estate people and I said can I put some money down on this the whole this and They said well how many acres you want there were 30 acres of farm field and I didn't want the crop field sure of course that was a lot more money too. Yeah, and I said I'm just a Joel grass metals and And the timber ground they said, that totals about 50 acres So I said, well, that's fine So I put some money down the hole and I said I gotta bring my wife up the next day so she can look at it and Make sure everything will get you. Okay from the boss. Yeah so so we come up the next I called her on the phone and to tell her that I Kent Boucher (06:33.346) Good plan. Keith Horn (06:41.518) Just looked at some ground and putting money down. She goes well how many acres I said 50 And held the phone out here 50 acres You said he's only gonna buy about five to fifteen acres I said well, it's pretty reasonably priced too, you know, yeah, so anyways Kent Boucher (06:49.363) Yeah Kent Boucher (06:59.758) Do you mind saying what it went per Keith Horn (07:01.472) Acre by 900 speaker-2 (07:03.406) Yeah. Kent Boucher (07:05.27) Why wasn't I buying it I was 12? Keith Horn (07:07.662) It was averaging 15 to 2000 at least at that time they got for 900 an acre Wow, so we're 50 acres for 45,000. I mean, it's a pretty it's like buying a truck. Yeah at that time Yeah, a new pickup truck. So anyways the next day we came up and Like I said, my wife likes dogwood. So the first thing I did we went to the timber where the dogwoods were in bloom straight ace card and Kent Boucher (07:34.094) Oh yeah, no. Keith Horn (07:37.076) After about 15 minutes of that walking through the timber, we just came out into the first, the old grass, wild grass hay field. And when we came out in that and there was all the shooting stars and the hyacinths and stuff, she looked at me, she goes, this is beautiful, what are these? I don't know. She goes, let's buy it. That's how we found it. Kent Boucher (08:00.322) That's amaze- Keith Horn (08:01.0) And we bought it from an old farming couple. It was through a real estate agency, but it was an old farming couple. Yes. And the old farmer said, I don't well, let me backtrack. The old farmer said the land had been in the family since the 1870s. I don't know if it was his side of family or her side of family, his wife, but it was in the family. I never thought that. Well, I didn't know at that time. All he said goes, yeah, we've had this been in the family since the 1870s. Kent Boucher (08:06.958) But you got to meet the couple. Keith Horn (08:29.932) And then he told me, said about 15, 16 acres was a wild grass pasture and the other 15, 16 acres was a wild grass hay field. And that's what he called it. Of course it was prairie grass. And then he would cut the hay field once a year, usually around the of August or early September. He by that time, that wild grass is four to six, seven foot tall or better, which it is. And then he would bail it. This is the first photo album from 2004, 2005. Kent Boucher (09:06.35) Can we start looking through that? Sure. Keith Horn (09:09.118) And now some of the wildflowers are misidenti... I don't have them identified correctly, but that's what we thought they were at that time. So anyways, we went ahead and bought the ground and... Every every it was just full of water I'm sorry tail. Yeah tiger swallowtail. Yeah Kent Boucher (09:34.018) Man, that much blazing. I mean, we're looking at the album here and right away on page two, some of the most prairie blazing star I've ever seen in a remnant prairie. speaker-3 (09:42.943) BOS- Keith Horn (09:47.948) Well, it's ten times better than that now. Kent Boucher (09:51.948) So I mean when you first were looking at it were there just a few, just a few like you know some, yes a lot of different species but were they just kind of here and there because it hadn't been managed? Keith Horn (10:03.246) Yeah, like purple coneflower would be one. You might go 50 feet, 50 yards before you found another one. Same with yellow coneflower or gray headed coneflower. And some species there was quite a few of. And at that time there was a lot of black-eyed Susans back then. Of course that's more of a cover crop. like I said, we had no idea. There you can see the... Kent Boucher (10:24.067) Yeah. Keith Horn (10:31.47) Black Eyed Susan's and some Butterfly Milkweed. Now the Monarda up top there, the Revlin, we, well I even got a label, we bought two flowers and put that out. Kent Boucher (10:44.468) I mean, it's unreal. Do you know how many species you ended up you've found out there that are native? to your hat. Keith Horn (10:51.82) The native species are 665. Kent Boucher (10:55.678) ha ha, ha. Keith Horn (10:58.073) Out of the 665 there's a roughly 20 native species that have been added through the years like royal catch fly It's so rare in Illinois and we had the perfect habitat the DNR brought seed and a few live plants out Oh 2009 10 and we put them out Wow and now they're starting Kent Boucher (11:18.638) That's a, do you, what are you doing in June? I said, what are you doing in June? I'd love. Yeah, I would love to come back and step foot during the growing season. mean, that's just absolutely. That's unreal. Let me see the blue. Well, there's no. Right there, right there. Flower. Yeah. So I mean, for anyone who's ever bought native seed, I mean, speaker-3 (11:25.422) to come out and see ya. Keith Horn (11:33.304) Wide grass in here. There's a on it. There's kind of a little... Kent Boucher (11:47.958) I'm sure you have a good job. Nobody has a good enough job to buy. This stuff was there. That's majority. Keith Horn (11:52.078) Oh, it's all the seeds. yeah, this already have this stuff. Yeah. The majority of it was there. Kent Boucher (11:58.318) So, I mean, after you took ownership, were you like, is that really when you started to become a student? Prairie Bush Clover, that's crazy. Keith Horn (12:13.74) Yeah, Rumbull's round-headed bushclover. that's round-headed. Somebody's are not labeled correctly. It's what we thought they were at that okay, okay, okay. Most of them are, but there's a few of them that aren't. Yeah, yeah. There you can see, look at the black-eyed Susan there. Kent Boucher (12:27.19) Yeah, that's unreal. So you start researching all this stuff right away and Keith Horn (12:33.742) No, we bought it in 2001. In 2002, we saw more more wildflowers, because we didn't bale it or didn't cut it and stuff like that. By 2003, we started taking film photos of all the wildflowers and then would go home and look them up on the computer. And everything we looked up was a native wildflower. So by late July, I finally got the local DNR. man from Vandalia down there, Gary Potts, Gary, to come out and I wanted him to see all the blazing star. I didn't know what kind of blazing star, but I knew it was a blazing star. And so Gary came on up and I took him into the back part back there at the old wild grass pasture. And all I can say is that scene on the original Jurassic Park, come down that valley and come up top that hill. Kent Boucher (13:29.121) what? Keith Horn (13:32.558) And there's the dinosaurs and Dr. Grant stands up in the G takes his sunglasses off and just stares. That's what Gary did when I took him back there. Seriously. He walked, he got out of the truck, walked up to the, the fence was still through there at that time. Cause there was a nine acre bean field. Well, it wasn't beans anymore, but there was a nine acre bean field back there. And, um, Gary walked up to the fence and stood there for Kent Boucher (13:36.344) as a Kent Boucher (13:42.926) I mean Keith Horn (14:00.654) five, seven minutes or whatever, just kept looking, didn't say a word. Finally he turned and looked at me, he had tears coming out of his eyes. He said, this is a prairie. He said, this is a prairie remnant. He says, you gotta do something with this, this is special. He says, you just don't find this anymore. So that was in late July of 2003. So we had to wait till 2004 to enroll it into a new fiscal year program. Kent Boucher (14:04.429) cry. Kent Boucher (14:17.183) yeah. Keith Horn (14:29.742) The first five years we had it in a whip program while hot wildlife habitat improvement program. Yeah, and then when that ran out in 2009 we enrolled it into the current land water reserve program which fully protects it from farming development and that kind of stuff and So have you since then? Kent Boucher (14:50.734) Have you been to another prairie in Illinois that has, has, do you feel like matched this year level? Keith Horn (14:57.56) No, wow not match Kent Boucher (14:59.904) I've never heard of a prayer that matches. No, no, neither have I. That's what was like. If anybody knows about it, it'd probably be this guy. Yeah. And so, yeah, I just don't. I just think this is unreal. you're good. Yeah. Yeah. So the I mean, some of these species, you just told flex, you just don't see what I'm really curious is, have you field milk for your wildlife? Keith Horn (15:13.004) You can come. You're good. Kent Boucher (15:28.514) how they've interacted with these species. Obviously, they love being there. But let's say white-tailed deer, for instance. Do they brow? Keith Horn (15:38.402) There lot of deer. What? I was on this stuff. Sure they bed out there. What do they what do they munch on the most? A lot I can't say the most a lot of your less but these is your clovers sure Grasp certain grass species, you know, which ones we got over 70 different grass Kent Boucher (15:51.553) Okay. Kent Boucher (15:59.598) They're all palatable at different times of the year. Yeah. Well, and the reason I ask is because people ask us that question. Yeah. You know, and we know. Keith Horn (16:06.046) Some which had what lot of people don't realize before settlement when this country was Just being explored and stuff. There was vast herds of deer Turkeys well not herds turkeys flock the turkeys, but I mean buffalo elk. should be elk in this area Yeah, I mean about a thousand They lived off this stuff. There wasn't a white tilt I'm not putting white tail clover down or anything like that, but I mean, yeah, there was no stuff like that, right they lived in and Kent Boucher (16:24.14) Yeah. Keith Horn (16:36.002) That ticked truffle there, that's actually milk pea. That's not a... If you know I'm talking about Eastern milk pea. Kent Boucher (16:42.254) Okay. I've never even heard of that either. The Illinois Tectrofoil. Keith Horn (16:49.048) You're saying it's it's mislabeled but that's we thought of the tick truffle, but that's Eastern milk pea. Well Kent Boucher (16:54.382) I was wondering, was like, that is a very, wow. The Downey wood mint. I've never seen that either. That's beautiful. Yeah. I've seen a bunch of people ask for it in bids and it always gets substituted out because nobody has any, that's interesting. Jewel weed. That's cool. Jewel weed are fun cause they, Keith Horn (17:12.25) Yeah, they'll pop that seat can go Two three feet and go up to six seven foot I guess under right circumstances Kent Boucher (17:19.79) Yeah, just a just a I mean a true one-of-a-kind gem I mean, yeah, we got it if we're invited we got to come back during the growing season and Laura if you're listening to this you can you can ride along with us and I'll make sure Nick doesn't have any high fiber meals the Keith Horn (17:35.68) Once we found out we had a true prairie remnant in 2003, for Christmas my wife and I went together and bought a digital camera and we started taking digital photos in 2004. Kent Boucher (17:48.106) Okay. you these up anywhere on the internet? Keith Horn (17:50.798) No, somewhat on the Land water reserve Illinois land water reserve. There's a few pictures in there Kent Boucher (18:00.888) Wow. So this originally started out as kind of Keith's project. We met Patty. Did it kind of then start merging? Keith Horn (18:07.692) Yeah. She was out there those first five, seven, eight years at least. Yeah. of fact, she used to take most of these, most of these photos she took. Kent Boucher (18:19.832) So it really kind of became something that was gonna be kind of a fun thing for you mostly. It became something that you as a couple really got to enjoy. Keith Horn (18:27.79) Yeah, she helped a lot and then then once we found out we had a true prairie remnant in late July of 2003 over the winter that fall winter I collected a lot of seed that we used in 2004 on we got a little over 10 acres of restoration prairie two different spots the backfields about nine and a half acres and Kent Boucher (18:51.256) Collected your own. Keith Horn (18:52.704) Well, not enough for the whole restoration and DNR supplied the rest, but all the seed was from Illinois. Kent Boucher (18:59.886) Do people come banging on your door to get into your Prairie or I feel like you, I mean you have something really special. I feel like some people have. Keith Horn (19:07.704) We've had people from 14 different states out come see the prairie now. I'm starting to get booked tour times. Dates already, I got four tours already lined up. Kent Boucher (19:20.226) Wow. Do you just have you ever thought about, do you batch the tours together? Yeah. Keith Horn (19:25.07) Once in a we have to. We don't like to get more than about 30 people in a group because what happens is they get strung out so far that the people in the tail end of the group, a lot of times they're missing out on what's being talked about. So 25, 30 is about max. It's all free. Kent Boucher (19:44.92) You charge money to know it. What a guy. What an absolute legend. Yeah. Keith Horn (19:51.468) Now we've had a couple times where we had 40, 50 people, then a DNR guy will come out and help. Be a guide. And then we break it down to two groups. That works out pretty good too. Don't have too much problem with that. Although we had a very rare plant, plantago cordata, which is a wetland plant. And I want to Kent Boucher (20:04.92) How do you deal with trespass? Kent Boucher (20:09.762) Yeah, Keith Horn (20:20.3) took a handful of people down to show them that. And I guess it's two years ago now, springtime, I went down there, because it's very early bloomer, should be shooting bloom, stalks should be coming up now already. And I went down there to check on them. Somebody come in and dug them all up. Kent Boucher (20:40.56) Ugh, really? Keith Horn (20:43.09) Mm-hmm. Wow. That's the only thing I've ever seen Missing or somebody came out and dug up but but some somebody did I don't know who it was Wow, they took everybody had about 25 plants and they're all gone. So Wow Kent Boucher (20:54.722) against nature. Also, it's gone totally you never haven't seen a bad hopefully there's some seed bank. Keith Horn (21:02.662) I chucked down there the other day and didn't see any but if there's some seedlings that takes several years for them to develop. Yeah. I'm not sure so. Kent Boucher (21:09.678) Well, that's what they that's that Sure, they've talked to you about like the coefficient number. It's it it's like how likely is that? Prairie species to show up in a mature prairie You know how much of it do they see and those species with a high coefficient number like blue-eyed grass? Even if you plan it you won't see it for Now with this diverse of a remnant prairie, do you have any invasive? Keith Horn (21:32.087) eight years. Keith Horn (21:39.822) We have a lot of bush honeysuckle and ceracea clover. That's our two biggest problems. Kent Boucher (21:40.097) Approachment. Kent Boucher (21:48.578) deal with them. Keith Horn (21:51.374) Cut and spray. Kent Boucher (21:53.198) Okay. Keith Horn (21:54.646) The DNR comes out and helps a lot with that. Kent Boucher (21:57.1) Yeah. Does Ray Gereff do any burning for you down here? Keith Horn (22:01.942) Yeah, the DNR does all the control burns. We used to do it ourselves until we signed with the Land Water Reserve, then the DNR started. Kent Boucher (22:09.432) That's awesome that they help you with that. That shows that, I mean, it's awesome that you can own this prairie, but it's a community effort to really maintain it. Keith Horn (22:17.774) used to do it ourselves and I got two sons and then they was in Boy Scouts and then we'd have three, four, five of their buddies, Boy Scout buddies come out. Kent Boucher (22:26.434) What time of year would you burn normally? Keith Horn (22:29.422) Normally real late February early March just depending on the weather and that You never had problems burnt well, it's all ag fields around it. It's not to the east It's all timber to the east and we never had problems And of course, you know, you got to do a head Yeah fire, you know, we knew that Yeah, but now it's nicer with the Dean Artic they got the right equipment right and Kent Boucher (22:32.16) Okay. Sure. So kind of a late. speaker-3 (22:46.502) Yep. Kent Boucher (22:49.356) and all that, yeah. Kent Boucher (22:56.44) Do you burn different times? Keith Horn (22:58.562) We always burn about half. Half one year and half the next year. Usually around the end of February or early March. We're on the burn list for this year, but the weather's been so not very cooperative this year. Kent Boucher (23:03.81) time of the year though. Kent Boucher (23:15.968) You don't have a brome problem. Like a smooth brome or cool. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Yeah. That's it's truly just remarkable. I gotta imagine. Obviously you hate hearing about, someone stealing plants from. Keith Horn (23:18.614) have one bro. We'll see no grass problem. Keith Horn (23:33.174) That's the only thing we've had problems with they have nine different orchid species and Once I'm a little leery with that but arches are very finicky You got to have the right kind of pH in the soil and micro bacteria and all that stuff for them to grow and then bloom so Kent Boucher (23:49.294) Sure. I gotta imagine there's been some seed collection so that they can propagate some of these rare species off of. Is that a camera that just beeped? Oh yeah. Keith Horn (23:58.99) Mm-hmm. It might have been one sec. Let me check Kent Boucher (24:04.664) Keep going. so what are some of your favorites? I mean, let's go by category here. A favorite grass that you have. Keith Horn (24:16.724) I say, Keith Horn (24:22.016) Elliott's bluestem grass? Yeah, that's it. And Sido's gramagrass. The main big grass. Kent Boucher (24:24.046) Elliott's a blues. I've never heard of that. Okay. Those are the same grass, Elliot's bluestem is the same as the side out scrum. You are your favorite. Okay. As I said, never heard that nickname for him. Keith Horn (24:34.326) No, no, no, two Keith Horn (24:38.924) Yeah, Elliot's is a lot coarser. You know what little bluestem is. Elliot's a lot coarser. It's about the same size and that gets more leaves and little thicker stalks and stuff. Kent Boucher (24:44.226) Yeah, yeah. Kent Boucher (24:53.986) You know what? think I've seen some of that on some public land by my house. I looked at it and my plant ID would only say little bluestem, but I thought it was. Keith Horn (25:03.31) Well, broom sage looks a lot like, yeah, looks a lot like little bloom sand. Yeah. Kent Boucher (25:12.93) I'll see if I can find the picture and I'll show it to you when we get done and see if you think that's what it might be. I mean, are you getting like some real, I mean, that's a crazy grass I never heard of. Like what about things like Eastern Gamma grass? you found it? And what about purple top grass or greasy grass, some of that? Keith Horn (25:30.92) Yeah, we have Eastern Gamma grass. Wow. Keith Horn (25:37.74) Red top, purple top, greasy top. Big blue stem, switch grass, Indian grass. Our main big grasses are big blue stem and Indian grass is the main grass. Kent Boucher (25:52.878) Sure, so true tall grass. Yeah Keith Horn (25:55.936) and they average six to ten feet tall. Kent Boucher (25:59.726) What about any blue grama? Have you seen any blue Yeah, that's more of a western grass. But I've always wondered what part did it play in the tall grass prairie? It sounds like it probably wasn't there much. Or any buffalo grass? Any of that? Keith Horn (26:03.842) Yeah, we don't have that. Keith Horn (26:15.144) No, I wish we had that. We keep looking, we find new species every year. Kent Boucher (26:21.155) Any Prairie June grass? Keith Horn (26:26.193) I'm not sure if you have that or not. real short. Kent Boucher (26:27.982) And I mean it's in it when big bluestem is about five inches tall June grasses and full bloom at 20 inches tall Yeah, it's it's just real interesting to hear you know what what was in a true diverse remnant, you know Keith Horn (26:36.834) I don't think have that. Keith Horn (26:46.166) The plant list is right there. Kent Boucher (26:47.918) You know what's interesting is that tall grass prairies are like a jungle. You know short grass. mean mixed grass prairies are mixed, but you've been to short grass prairies. It's like knee-high or shorter the whole way. There's way less diversity, but tall grass prairies are truly a jungle and it's interesting. Man, just look at the diversity in that picture there. It's just insane. So you don't have these photos up, like all these photos up anywhere. Keith Horn (27:15.51) I'm on about seven different websites and I post current stuff all the time. Kent Boucher (27:20.238) Okay. Interesting. Keith Horn (27:23.499) I'm on Illinois Botany site, Indiana Native Plant Society, Missouri Native Plant Society, Midwest Native Plant Society. Kent Boucher (27:33.004) He's active on. For our listeners, listen to this. This is a list of ticker foils, showy ticker foil, hair, small leaf ticker foil, large bractid ticker foil, Illinois ticker foil, smooth ticker foil, small leaf ticker foil, panicked tick. Um, it's handwritten and, uh, less seal leafed ticker foil. Isn't that crazy? Just like the sheer amount of just ticker foil. You know, that's wild. Keith Horn (27:51.796) Is that what that says? Kent Boucher (28:05.89) That is so wild. And yet the daily is the prairie clovers just good old purple and white. They show up everywhere, don't they? This is really fascinating, this mix. Now, are there other prairies around the state that have been, they've taken seed from your prairie to try and propagate some of Keith Horn (28:26.562) Chicago, what the heck was the name of that? Botanical gardens came down and collected seed about three years ago in the fall, early fall. And they was gonna use some of that seed and restorations and that up north. Our prairie is actually part of the Southern Till Plain Prairie, or what was the Southern Till Plain Prairie here in Illinois. But we're at the northern limits of it. Kent Boucher (28:37.004) Okay. Kent Boucher (28:41.486) Sure. Keith Horn (28:55.054) maybe a mile, one to three, maybe five miles. know, Prairie wasn't a straight edge, you know. And then you would start into the very southern fringes of the Grand Prairie. went all the way up into Wisconsin. So we're right on that. Kent Boucher (29:09.966) It's a grand prayer. What does that mean? Keith Horn (29:12.302) The big prairie that started just north of here went all the way through Illinois all the way into southern Wisconsin. That was the name of it, the Grand Prairie. Kent Boucher (29:21.752) How is that different than this prairie? It's like the Des Moines Lobe. That's the geological feature that'll... okay. So yours is in more of a wooded area. Keith Horn (29:27.276) Yeah. kind of broken up a little bit. Ours is part of the Southern Till Plain Prairie. But we're at the very northern edge of the Southern Till Plain. So we have plant species from the Grand Prairie or the Northern Prairie and the Southern Till Plain Prairie. That's one reason our subspecies are so high. excuse me, we have five types of different types of prairie. have wetland seep, dry hillside prairie, mezzic prairie. Black Soil Prairie and Savannah Prairie all in our remnant out there. Kent Boucher (30:06.508) When did you realize what you had was a huge deal? When did it dawn on you? Keith Horn (30:10.958) Well, once we had Gary Potts, a DNR man, come out and he confirmed that we had a prairie. But we really found out once in 2009 after we enrolled in the Land Water Reserve, the current Nature Reserve Programmer, and we had a DNR botanist come out, Bob Edgen, and he came out for four and a half hours to do a plant species count. And in four and a half hours, had 366 species listed already. And then he came out a couple of weeks later and went into a, we have nine different seep areas, wetland areas on the prairie up there. And he came out a couple of weeks later and went down to the big seep, which is, it's over a quarter acre in size. And they was down there for six and a half hours and they had a hoop, three foot or. meter by meter and and I mean it was mud and blood up and soaked to the bone you know and they're on their hands and knees down that I know I'm just I'm nervous no no you're good and they was down in that big seat and After about six hours, they finally came out. I brought them sandwiches and bottles of water at lunchtime. And then I went back about 3.30 and it was just getting done. And I asked Bob, said, well, how did it turn out? He said, well, all the plants that should be here, you're only missing one. that big seat. He named what it was, but I don't remember. Interesting. He's only missing one plant that was known to be there or should be there. He's only missing one. Kent Boucher (32:06.542) What I've noticed about this, I saw this picture here of you standing out in one of your fields of flowers and I think what's interesting about the prairie is you can, there's certainly utility uses if you're an outdoors person, you know, I love to hunt, deer hunt, you probably, I think I saw a few hunting decals on your truck when we pulled in. You like to hunt and so there's some utility there, mushroom hunting is what got you on the in the area in the first place. I imagine you find some deer antlers out there for a long time. All those things are, I guess, for lack of better term, uses for the prairie. But during the growing season, if you can't hunt, maybe a little bit of mushroom hunting during the spring ephemerals and stuff, you just take it in. It's so captivating. that that's the use, is just to enjoy it for what it is. And there's very few things, the only things I can think of is maybe if you're standing on a beach and just taking in the majesty of the oceans, or standing at the foot of the Rockies and looking at the mountains. And a lot of people think that the Midwest doesn't have any kind of anchoring phenomenon that just grabs your attention for what it is, and yet Prairie does that. true diverse prairie captures you just as much as those. Keith Horn (33:38.542) We've had a lot of people come out on tours, like when the Prairie Blazing Star, mid-July, mid-end of July, are in full. They're out there by the thousands, acres of them. And we've had people come out and they actually get tears in their eyes when they're walking. And it gives you an idea of what the big, vast prairies once looked like. Kent Boucher (33:56.086) Yeah, absolutely. Kent Boucher (34:03.01) Yeah. That's what I mean. That's probably what they were. They were just miles of the same dominant plant color for two weeks. You know, light per prairie blazing star. Keith Horn (34:12.32) Eeks. Yeah, just didn't end. Kent Boucher (34:18.69) Yeah, you can't even imagine. A growing season time lapse on that would be really cool to see. Just to have a fixed camera that's always taking pictures a couple of different times of the day every day, but consistently just to see how those colors shift over the growing season. Yeah, that would be really cool. I know a couple of guys that might might be able to that. They've done it for some. We actually need to get them on the podcast. We've talked about it. Keith Horn (34:20.585) I can't comprehend that. No. Keith Horn (34:38.744) That would be, you know, that would be... Kent Boucher (34:48.903) They've done it out in Nebraska for some of the prairies out there. yeah, should, I mean, this is one of one, this prairie. mean, it's just truly amazing. What's your favorite flower that you have in your prairie? Keith Horn (35:04.546) I guess blazing star. Kent Boucher (35:06.11) yeah. that was our founder. kind? The prairie? Yeah, there's a ton. Keith Horn (35:09.022) Because there's so many. I mean you can literally, last year I started filming with my phone as I'm walking through and narrating stuff. You just walk and just keep walking and sometimes they're so thick you can't already get through them. Kent Boucher (35:26.06) And they're what? July? Keith Horn (35:29.538) Yeah, mid to end of July. They grow average three to six foot tall. Fine, of And as you're walking through, the bees and the butterflies, I mean, there's so many bees, it's a continuous buzzing sound. And of course, they don't bother you. mean, you walk right, they might brush your skin or butterflies will land right on you. Yeah. And that's pretty cool. Yeah. Kent Boucher (35:34.798) Yeah, yeah you do Kent Boucher (35:57.122) I'm impressed by you being so open to people coming to see this. This is something you could very easily and very understandably keep to yourself. Right, and the fact that you're willing to do that isn't just great because it brings tears to people's eyes. It's because those tears that are brought to people's eyes make them realize this is something worth protecting. Keith Horn (36:09.71) Most people have never seen this. Kent Boucher (36:25.942) and something worth promoting, bringing back onto the landscape as it once was. Keith Horn (36:30.69) The sad thing is so much, everything's mowed now. When we first bought the ground out there in 2001, there was a lot of prairie plants all around the area, along the road ditches and stuff, a lot. Now there's virtually none because they mow and spray everything. And it's sad, they shouldn't do that. There's an old road on our south end, dirt road, it's a township road, but it's just dirt, goes down and there's an old bridge. Kent Boucher (36:34.296) Yes. Kent Boucher (36:50.893) Yeah. Keith Horn (36:59.308) down where the creek goes through, the bridge has been out since the 1940s. the local guys come down there and they mow all that and spray all that. There's nothing back there, there's no houses. It's just timber and open pasture and some fields. It's like, I don't understand why they do that. I'm not putting anybody down. Kent Boucher (37:12.824) Yeah. Kent Boucher (37:19.704) Yeah, there's Well, it's inexcusable. mean it is There's and it's the the insult to injury on that is they're doing it with your tax dollars. Yeah. the I've often thought I just need to go to a Whatever meeting public meeting for Road Commission or whatever and just Hey, can you guys quit doing this? I'll tell you end up being a road commissioner Yeah, that's that's what that leads to there's a there's a gravel road close to me and it's obvious that the the road bed was made right through a remnant because there are hundreds of prairie dock plants and compass plants and then all the other species you would expect to see and Just as all those you know, allow them to flower about halfway and then mow them I don't know what it is on the calendar that says just get rid of that really nice different looking green patch of plants, but they hammered every year Thankfully they only do it once so they do return but that's interesting. Like it might not seem like a big deal but then becoming roadside commissioner or whatever that title is could actually make it. If you're in charge of that for a whole county that could make that'd be a huge needle moving thing. Yeah. You know, if we got in Iowa, if we got, if you had a Prairie person on even a third of them, a third of the counties. Yeah. Think of how much more acres and acres of Prairie. Keith Horn (38:45.39) Mm-hmm. Kent Boucher (38:45.964) Yeah, my road commissioner is a flower guy and our roadsides are beautiful until the county. they contracted an invasive removal company that just drives and hoses down, the roadsides with like a fire hose nozzle right out the truck window. Yeah. I've seen that happen before. I hate that. Yeah. Yeah. Just Keith Horn (39:03.564) We've noticed over the last three, four, five years now, bird numbers are down. Even the bees and butterflies are even on Europe. out there, but not like it used to be interesting. And I think the problem is we're an island. We're surrounded by all this ag fields. It ain't the ag fields. It's they mow. They mow everything and they spray everything. Even the local farmers do that. Kent Boucher (39:20.076) Yeah. Kent Boucher (39:26.636) Yeah. Keith Horn (39:32.718) And so where birds used to be able to migrate, go through and find insects and stuff, there's nothing there anymore. Kent Boucher (39:41.186) man, the more people that touch your prairie, the better the world is going to be. That's not, mean, that is just about a truest sentence as I could think of the more people that would get out to your prairie and just be amazed and awed by it, by its amazingness and awesomeness, you know? Yeah. what, so, you know, what's, what happens to the prairie after Keith's not there to take care of it? Keith Horn (40:07.822) Well, I haven't really talked a whole lot with my two sons. I mean, they grew up, there was young boys when we bought that and they like it. But I think it'd be better if prairie organization like Native Plant Society or certain individual or individuals together, a group would buy it. Yeah. When the time comes. Kent Boucher (40:18.69) Good. Kent Boucher (40:33.41) Yeah, that probably would be I mean nothing against your sons or your descendants. Keith Horn (40:38.572) I don't know if they're that interested in it. Kent Boucher (40:42.562) Sure. Yeah, yeah, it's too special of a thing to to, you know, not be certain that it's Keith Horn (40:50.156) Well, we have the largest intact Southern Till Plain Prairie in Illinois. So there's a lot of one, two, three, four acre little parcels, but we have 31 acres. All seeps, springs, underground water veins are still intact. Kent Boucher (40:53.941) Yeah, I believe that for sure. Kent Boucher (41:01.964) Yeah. Wow. Kent Boucher (41:10.222) So there's no field tile from way back when running through it or anything? Yeah, that's amazing. So why do you think it was never suitable for growing? Keith Horn (41:21.646) It's kind of rolling hilly ground, but it's real gravelly. And the old farmer said, I don't know if they ever tried it. Evident the way he made it sound, they must have tried it at one time. But he said, it doesn't grow. It's no good for farming. It doesn't grow crops very well. He said, but boy, that wild grass grows. So they left it alone. Kent Boucher (41:24.427) Okay. Kent Boucher (41:40.982) Yeah. Do you hunt over your prairie? Keith Horn (41:47.182) Yes and no and what an answer I got a real good friend that's About 40 % disabled and he lost his hunting spot deer hunting spot about eight years ago So I let him and his two grandsons hunter because we have that bigger farm over here. I Mean for deer I turkey hunting that over there. Yeah Kent Boucher (42:03.502) Yeah. Kent Boucher (42:07.384) Yeah, what's it like? I've always wanted to do that. There's some remnants in Iowa that I've always thought would be fun. Even if I didn't even see a deer or something, but just because I like to hunt over a prairie and kind of almost reconnect with how, you know, Keith Horn (42:22.83) The first few years and got dear over Kent Boucher (42:26.382) Was that just like extra special and final? Keith Horn (42:29.569) Well, I never thought of it that way, but you're right. It is a little more special. But we do have prairies. We got about 25 acres of prairie at our other farm over north west of here. Kent Boucher (42:42.03) Yeah, that's what so that's so special to just think of having that ancient connection how humans how they lived off of the prairie. What do you think about your prairie right now besides bringing those species back that someone dug? speaker-3 (42:54.254) you Keith Horn (42:55.544) You change anything. Keith Horn (42:59.534) In our restoration prairie, I don't think I plant the tall grasses big bluestem Indian grass, okay with the initial planning I would do all the wildflower or and shark grasses. Mm-hmm and let them grow at least two years then come in and and Add the big Indian grass big bluestem and switch grass sure because we well this the Deon artist they'd helped with it Kent Boucher (43:10.846) interesting. Keith Horn (43:29.382) and they put it in the big grass in with right away and it almost overtook it. You had to do some fall burns and knock it back. And now it's much better but they was almost starting to debate if they was gonna have to redo the whole thing. Kent Boucher (43:46.88) Yeah, not fun. Yeah. Yeah. The big blue stem Indian grass, especially without any sort of grazing. Hey, you ever thought about putting a graze, just a light graze on it? Keith Horn (43:56.684) Yes and no. Then I gotta put the fences back in. True. That's true. Kent Boucher (43:59.534) Yeah, yeah, that's true. That's get some of that color trained livestock life they got now. Somebody's got those no fence colors they can. Yeah, yeah. You know, some cattle or goats and turn them out there for a little bit. Keith Horn (44:10.316) Yeah, she... Ideally be nice to get a few buffalo out there. Yeah. But then you can't... you have to be careful walking around. Kent Boucher (44:18.176) Yeah, that's true. That is Different to haul buffalo as opposed to hauling cows around. Yeah, do you have any any beef producer neighbors around you? Get some beef alone Keith Horn (44:21.048) But that would be neat. Keith Horn (44:33.324) Everybody's green farmers right now. Everybody's the house, know, and butcher for themselves. Sure, sure. Kent Boucher (44:36.27) Everybody starts yelling about- Kent Boucher (44:42.464) So, I mean, you've become truly a prairie enthusiast and I imagine even a prairie advocate at this point. When you think of the next 100 years from Illinois, would, I mean, realistically, what would you hope to see as far as prairie goes in Illinois? Keith Horn (44:49.641) yes, my f- Keith Horn (45:02.542) They quit mowing all the ditches hmm and roadsides and stuff and let that grow back into native vegetation Because when I was a kid There was milkweeds all along all the roads. They didn't mow like they do now when I was a kid on the farm. Why did I? Don't know I read Kent Boucher (45:19.31) do they do that? Creation is that is that what they say in their meetings? Well, it's so that you don't have you got a little bit more warning for wildlife to jump out It's not as attractive to wildlife along the roadway. So you're not having you know animal vehicle I'm convinced. It's just something for them to do I mean, I mean that respectfully you got people that are on staff and There's times of year where it's very busy when it snows or things like that, or maybe there's a new road construction project that they gotta reseed the ditches, or maybe they gotta dredge out some ditches that have been silted in or something. But then there's times of the year where you got full-time employees without full-time work. put a butt in a seat and give them a disc mower and... Away they go. And I think that it helps justify having that full-time help because it's hard to find good help if you don't have a full-time job to offer, you know? Keith Horn (46:25.262) I understand that but a lot of this I think a lot of people think they want these back roads and stuff to look like a golf course Which person I think is not very attractive no But then but then they say well boy we don't see rabbits and quail like we used to nothing there for the rabbits and quail They don't put a little bit of a vibe in Kent Boucher (46:33.07) Yeah, I think that's a big part of it too. No. Right. Kent Boucher (46:46.646) Yeah. Yeah. A beautifully manicured lawn for if they've got several acres and the sides of roads, if they keep it really nice and manicured, I feel similarly to, McDonald's burger on a commercial. It's like, wow, that looks perfectly curated. You probably sprayed it with hairspray to make it look like that. Right. And I don't want to eat that at all. It looks okay. It looks like you put a lot of work into it, but the cheese is actually glue. Yeah, no, literally. Have you seen the like, like what they actually do to sandwiches to four commercials and their food? Yeah. I watched SpongeBob. know. man. That's really bad. Well, I just have one more question for you about Ken might have some more. When, when you're out there and now you you've seen 100 some odd species out there, when you're there and you're by yourself, Keith Horn (47:39.054) 600. Kent Boucher (47:44.088) What are you doing? What are you thinking about? What are you looking at? Keith Horn (47:46.74) I walk every time I come up I walk through the whole prairie all 40 41 acres of it. Well not all of it but biggest part of it and I bring my camera along because there's always something to see not only the wildflowers or the plants or the grasses but there's all kinds of insect of course the birds baby birds mammals rabbits raccoons squirrels you know all kinds of birds. So there's always something to see and take photos of. I got tons and tons of photos through the years. some things are only there for a couple weeks. And some plants are like that too. They come up, grow, come up, bloom, and they're done in two, three weeks. Most of them last several weeks, even several months. But there's specialty plants that they come up and grow real quickly and then they're gone. But anyways, there's always something to see at the prairie. Kent Boucher (48:49.698) Yeah, yeah, it sounds like an incredible Keith Horn (48:51.662) place I love to be around my Nikon I got two cards that I can put in case and an extra battery with battery with me because also I'm sitting there and take over 300 photos and the batteries dead Kent Boucher (49:07.926) Man, I love it. You still have that same camera that you bought that Chris. It's a different. Keith Horn (49:12.374) No, no, no, it's a new one. This one's only about six years old. man. Our first one was a Kodak, but this is a nice Nikon. Kent Boucher (49:21.708) When you look back at all your years on that prairie, what's a moment you'll always remember? Keith Horn (49:32.078) In 2000, spring of 2004, we did our first burn. And it wasn't then, it was the next year, spring of 2005. The wildflowers doubled or tripled throughout the landscape from one burn. And there was big round bales out there when we first bought it. And the farmer never did come back and get them. So that we burned them in 2004. And where some of them round bales were, had Indian paintbrush come up. That's first time I've Kent Boucher (50:05.486) I think it was because he'd been bailing that prayer and he bailed up some seed stock in there or something. Keith Horn (50:09.646) Well, the seed stock was there, with the there was a lot at that when we bought it, there was a lot of Timothy red clover. Yeah. Now you hardly see any of that. Kent Boucher (50:19.596) bet it was because similar to what is that the bison flower, like the bales basically smothered it, smothered everything. That's my guess. Cause any paintbrush is fairly delicate. And so it just had to get rid of some of that competition. Keith Horn (50:23.361) or Keith Horn (50:33.582) Interesting. Kent Boucher (50:36.586) Yeah, the heat probably was there longer and hotter and got rid of some of the other Competition that way too. Maybe well, won't lie to you We committed a crime against our listeners recording this indoors in March and not outside on your place in June So we would love to yeah. Yep. Absolutely Judd you got any closing questions or remarks? Nope. I'm just excited to come back and see this thing in the growing season Keith Horn (50:52.418) Come on Kent Boucher (51:04.77) Yeah, but we're gonna I think we're going to see it today aren't we yeah, come on. Yeah. Yeah, I brought my hiking boots Nick brought an extra parachute Keith Horn (51:11.624) I slip only mold trails Kent Boucher (51:13.886) Okay, Yeah, I love a sleeping prairie just as much as a growing one. yeah Yeah, we're dead if we're invited we're definitely coming back to this. I'll come on out you two if I have to yeah, but I think I think I think you guys will want to come and I think Laura will want to join us too would be my guess but Keith, thank you so much for coming for sharing the story on your prairie. We're excited to go see it and Keith Horn (51:35.758) It's an honor to meet with you guys. Kent Boucher (51:38.446) No, us the honors all ours we We are super privileged to have you here and a big shout out to our buddy Mitch who? Arranged all this man Mitch is Mitch is one of the coolest outdoors people you can ever meet you can actually hear from Mitch on the prehistoric prairie episode one Which has been released I think three times now on this it's a great series I heard a lot of compliments on it at the deer classic actually but but Want to give a shout out to a Skyline Market here in Ramsey, Illinois. Yeah, we literally just showed up and said, can we use your office and the guy? No, no, no. We asked if we could fit into the restaurant, but we really didn't think we could fit into the restaurant. And the guy's like, how about my, how about my office? Yeah. What a, what a guy. So make sure you next time you're here, sandwiches pay them rent for us. Swing in here. Keith Horn (52:15.758) you Kent Boucher (52:31.118) We're taking a bunch of stuff home and buying a bunch of stuff, but yeah, they treat us really well. But we got to get onto the prairie. Keeps tuning in each week. just like Keith and his wife, Patty's minds were changed after they saw the beauty of the prairie. It's just a reminder that that change of mind, that new perspective on the land helps helps preserve these wonderful natural gems like Keith's Prairie. So. Yeah, till next time conservation happens one mind at a time Maybe.