Ep. 335 (Coffee Time) The New FARM BILL!!
Nicolas, Judd, and Riley catch up after a busy week at Pheasant Fest before diving into the latest developments with the 2026 Farm Bill. The guys discuss Section 8305's reforestation and nursery support provisions, what it means for native seed genetic resources, and why tree diversity matters just as much as prairie diversity. They also touch on nonprofit effectiveness, grant programs, and how money flows when government programs get involved. Plus: the importance of contacting your representatives during the markup phase, and a friendly reminder about upcoming auctions at Hoksey Native Seeds.
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Nicolas Lirio (00:00.986)
man, you guys should have should have heard the would you rather Kent was coming up last night like diabolical stuff. Yeah. Well, it's what's weird is the stuff that Kent would never do ever in a million years is also just kind of like, you know, like whatever,
Judd McCullum (00:12.044)
He thinks it was a woman.
Judd McCullum (00:22.862)
Let's boil this down for the kind listener. Kent likes to throw out, would you do a single thing? And it's not morally compromising or reprehensible in any way.
Like seven year old gross, not like, you know, dark side of the internet gross or anything like that. So it's like a single thing for a million or a billion dollars. And Nicholas and I both came to the conclusion that there's not anything we're not gonna take a crack at for a million bucks.
Nicolas Lirio (00:57.422)
You know actually the number for me is the amount of debt I have because if you don't actually pay off the debt and Let's say you pay off three-quarters of my debt well for the next five years or whatever. I still have the same Payments I would have had every month, so it doesn't actually change my life, so if you ask me to do something terrible it's Usually it's got to pay off my debt. You know I which it's a clear is well under a million
Judd McCullum (01:22.968)
got a pretty stern talking to from Nicholas about like, you actually know how far a million dollars goes? I'm like, it's money I don't have, so it's in consideration. Thanks very much.
Nicolas Lirio (01:35.537)
Well, some people would be like, I'd retire million dollars. No, sir. Unless you live off of $50,000 a year because your dividends are going to be $80,000 a year. And from that 80,000, you're going to get taxed 40%. And so you end up with 40,000 and some change.
Judd McCullum (01:55.598)
Sound like that prison guard from Shawshank Redemption right now.
Riley Rozendaal (01:59.15)
What is his name? Andy Dufresne.
Judd McCullum (02:03.34)
No, not Andy the mean prison guard who inherits money and he's complaining about, he's just gonna buy a car and then I gotta take the kids for a ride and then I go out and enjoy my
Nicolas Lirio (02:09.802)
Yeah,
You know, but that that prison guard beats up the other dude later in the talk
Judd McCullum (02:18.062)
good about that portion of it. It's a great movie to watch.
Riley Rozendaal (02:22.348)
The thing is though, like 40 grand is like retirement for I'm like 90 % there. That's like the only case it really makes sense. You be like, your house has to be paid off. have to like be like, I'm not ever gonna buy a new car again. I'm just gonna.
Nicolas Lirio (02:37.966)
$40,000 if you don't have any debt and you don't have any huge payments goes it goes pretty far. Let's real
Judd McCullum (02:44.91)
for doing one stupid fear factor ask act like
care what what what it's gonna get taxed what this and that I'm gonna I'm gonna you know drink a glass of worms and get $40,000 I don't care about the government's involvement just give me whatever's left over
Nicolas Lirio (03:03.727)
Man well if you couldn't tell Kent's not here today Kent really doesn't he doesn't do well if he's worked four hours a day a couple days in a row I tell you what so Kent we
Judd McCullum (03:13.294)
We went through this all weekend long. The poor guy suffers from a terrible, terrible debilitating case of plantar fasciitis. And so we went over, there was a booth there at Pheasant Fest where they had these really nice custom insoles. And the guy was explaining how he had this program where they had to talk with Apple about their hardware and get access to the, you know, the LIDAR and able to be able to scan the bottom of a person's foot to produce a pretty cool, uh,
insole, custom insole. Well, you know, they said, all right, well, let's do the scan. So Kent sat down and stuck his booted foot out and they were like, no, you're going to have to your, your boot off. so Kent slowly took his boot off and sat there and there we were kind of conversational and they said, no, no, Kent, you're going to have to, you're to have to take your sock off too. And Kent was kind of like, So he took his sock off and then they were like, well, Kent, we don't usually encounter this, but we need you to take that second sock off.
And was like, no, I'm sorry, that's filamentous element to my toe fungus. So I don't think he got an accurate read on those insoles. Sorry, Kent.
Nicolas Lirio (04:14.446)
That's just the-
Riley Rozendaal (04:24.116)
The lighter wasn't truly the bottom of the foot. was a
Judd McCullum (04:27.192)
Just a fuzzy nebulous. Just a f***ing lifetime.
Nicolas Lirio (04:29.262)
like it.
Riley Rozendaal (04:29.902)
Like a topographical
Nicolas Lirio (04:31.724)
Man that's funny. I think that's not true, but I don't want it Man honestly if anybody's gonna take any financial advice from anybody y'all just need to listen to Riley
Judd McCullum (04:42.286)
You can pick and choose what is.
Riley Rozendaal (04:51.182)
I got I got some I got a little bit of hate on I said I said $100,000 wouldn't change my life and the comments on the reels. Yeah, I did not like
Nicolas Lirio (05:00.098)
Yeah. I think I mean, 100,000 dollars just wouldn't change your life. Well, I could buy a boat and a UTV. Well, I don't know. Like it doesn't actually like it's probably not going to pay off your house. Maybe it does. Yeah, it might change your next year and a half. But if your habits don't change, your life won't be changed by more money. More problems, right? Yeah. If you have a billion dollars, you couldn't outspend the billion dollars, 100,000 or even a million.
Judd McCullum (05:13.33)
weekend but
Judd McCullum (05:26.926)
Eat a glass of worms for a billion dollars at me that stuff's going down
Riley Rozendaal (05:31.134)
Where's the word?
Nicolas Lirio (05:31.79)
Man, we had a really great time at Fez-a-Fest. Joe and I did. least Riley was here actually doing some work.
Riley Rozendaal (05:39.384)
I was getting all your lovely orders ready, sending these emails.
Nicolas Lirio (05:44.302)
And people were ordering stuff while we were at pheasant fest and poor John, it was like 9 15 at night. I was like, John, we got to answer these emails. We're her jam. And Ken was like, you know, that scene from the office where Michael and Dwight and Jim are having a pretend like sale and Jim goes and Jim's like a pretend guy. He's like, I'll I'll buy a million dollars worth of paper, but you've got to let Dwight go. And Dwight's like, no.
Michael, no, no, Michael, it's a million dollar sale. That was like in bed watching us work and he's like, but it's a 50 acre sale guy. I so stupid. I was like, well, yeah, yeah, man. This is not, this is not everyone, but we didn't even have our name on the registry because we signed up so late, some people found us. Travis, Jake, chase, Jacob, Jason, Zach, Jimmy, Eli, Karen, Eleanor, Ashley.
Scott, Seth, John, Doug, another Doug, Tom, Canute, Canute, am I saying that right? Canute, canute, Canute. That was an awesome name and an awesome human to encounter. Alec, yeah, yeah, good to chat with him. And Juan, Katie, there was another Doug, of course, three more Dougs in there probably. Five or six, think, And there were a bunch more. I literally like before the episode was like, quick, write down the names so we can remember.
Judd McCullum (06:52.652)
Don't forget Alec, you brought his whole family by.
Judd McCullum (07:09.324)
There were so many people that just blew through while Nick and Kent were there and they're like, I don't recognize you, but the podcast is great and I don't want to talk to you. So bye.
Nicolas Lirio (07:17.43)
Yeah. about you. mean? Yeah. No, it was good. It good. Well, so Judd is normally here like close to weekends if he's here at all, you know, coming from Illinois and we do coffee times Tuesday or Monday or Tuesday. So no chance. But anyway, we loved hanging out with you all. We really appreciate that. That was really cool. And like I get really insecure when people say I have listened to like some odd amount of hours of you talking. I like like was coping.
Play it on.
Judd McCullum (07:48.12)
because Kent just loves to watch him squirm when that happens. All eyes are on Nicholas as he's getting this comp.
Nicolas Lirio (07:54.318)
I think Ken's just used to seeing me like try to be confident and so that was not one of those times Yeah, well we should get started
Nicolas Lirio (08:11.118)
coffee time Wednesdays with the Prairie
Nicolas Lirio (08:22.604)
Welcome back to the Prairie Farm podcast, Coffee Time Wednesday. I'm your favorite host, Nicholas Lirio. Favorite co-host today, Riley Rosen. Well, many promotion, yes, yes.
Riley Rozendaal (08:29.678)
Cool promotion, mini promotion.
Judd McCullum (08:33.24)
I'm not taking any titles, I'm just here for now.
Nicolas Lirio (08:35.52)
No, I'll call the coast sub in co-host. You know what I mean? The you guys following that? The elderly lady that was kidnapped the like my name is grandma
Riley Rozendaal (08:47.726)
I've seen Cliff Notes.
Nicolas Lirio (08:49.942)
Okay, I just cuz she she's not on the show right now. The is it good? Good morning America is that the I really haven't followed it. I Someone was a friend of mine. She was very excited about it was giving me all the details and I think I just proved I was a terrible listener because I got all the details like Nobody's name nothing but Kent's kind of like that right now where he's not on the show and so we got we got the Judd stir Judd Dolemue if you will. Yep
We have kind of a huge topic today. Any of you guys know? Yeah, Judd knows what we're talking about. Riley, you know what we're talking about?
Judd McCullum (09:24.991)
I know what the title of this stack of papers is, but I don't know anything inside of it.
Nicolas Lirio (09:28.718)
All right. It's got a couple different names. We've talked about it literally about 100 times on this podcast. One of these should have dropped when we first started the podcast almost four years ago. Now we're finally getting some things addressed on here. It is the farm bill. They're talking about the farm bill. We are recording today on a Monday. Right now they're supposed to be having the markup time. Problem is there was a giant dump of snow, Blizzard and DC. There are a lot of it's post tone. So they're not doing their job. Yep.
But it was an 800 page cleanup bill, basically. A lot of the farm bill was actually in the big beautiful bill. And there were a lot of things left to the wayside, specifically conservation efforts. And because of that, a lot of conservation efforts are mentioned in this cleanup bill. We're gonna go through thing by thing that I felt like was relevant. There were literally like 50 things and I was like, there's probably seven-ish that felt very relevant.
Yes, it's going into the house committee has proposed it and they are going to go into, well, I guess it's called the markup period. Yeah. And then they go into debate. goes to the floor and it gets debated. Is my understanding. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Some burpings. All right. First and foremost, the it's technically called farm food and national security act of 2026, which tough.
Riley Rozendaal (10:40.078)
I heard some rumblings about it,
Nicolas Lirio (10:54.678)
a tough thing to loop in national security with farm and food. I suppose that's what they're doing to get things passed, which I hate. I just hate that. The lump in and then every senator or house rep says, well, I want this for my constituents in Kentucky. And then we're paying for stuff in Kentucky and people in Kentucky are paying stuff for us. And that's not the issue is the sharing thing that doesn't bother me as much. It's just.
Riley Rozendaal (11:04.334)
company.
Nicolas Lirio (11:20.522)
Everyone's fighting for more money. We've created a system where we create these behemoths absolute behemoths So this was probably my favorite part the precise act or precision conservation as it's worded in the bill similar precision ag they say We should measure this on a very specific Scale, I think I don't know what you guys think. I think this is good I think data points that conservation is good. So more data
will more data having light on it will be a good thing.
Riley Rozendaal (11:54.592)
I think a lot of people in conservation, I mean, I think we had a good idea of what was like set aside land, right? In the original programs back in the eighties, but the technology has come so far for us to be able to determine what's inundated with water. I think that that ties into it. There's more precision. You have a more precise idea of maybe where your marginal acres are than you might have used to.
Nicolas Lirio (12:22.19)
Yeah, I mean we've been saying that for years on the pod like look your combine knows where you're making money and where you're losing money Yeah, that's study that that billion dollar technology knows They just it just hasn't become popular to put grasslands on those acres because that is less money for those companies that actually collect the data Yeah, Judd you think it's good or bad that we're tracking the data so closely
Judd McCullum (12:44.706)
I think it's good that we're tracking data closely.
Nicolas Lirio (12:46.926)
What are the odds that the data is reported neutrally and correctly without some sort of spin on it? Cause you can make data, know what, it feels like it says anything, if it doesn't.
Judd McCullum (12:57.89)
have a spin on it even if it is neutral or you know doesn't go in our favor at least we have points to work off of we have an idea where we go from there yeah the compass direction so yeah can't work off guesses I'd be
Nicolas Lirio (13:08.206)
I would, you know, be bummed and we would definitely shut down Hoxie native seeds if this happened. But if all the data came out, everybody and it was very clear that corn on the ground and prayer being ripped up has nothing to do with ecological issues or nitrates in the water or any of that stuff. I'd be happy to hear that. And I closed down and I'd say, I guess we were fighting the wrong fight and we were wrong the whole time.
All of the data we have so far says, the exact opposite. So I guess it's just easy. It's so easy for politicians to.
Judd McCullum (13:44.438)
know what they're actually talking about.
Nicolas Lirio (13:47.918)
Yeah, that's wrong. That's true. was thinking more like I took a political science to stats class Yeah, basically learning that you can make stats say about whatever you want. Just depending on your phrasing and it'd be correct Nicholas
Judd McCullum (14:01.26)
You gave a perfect analogy to this earlier in this very podcast where you're talking about the missing mom or grandma or whoever that is and you got the full rundown of it from your friend who would have played the part of say a lobbyist and you're the politician and you came on here and said somebody's missing and I don't know who but we're talking about it.
Riley Rozendaal (14:21.934)
We're gonna solve the problem.
Nicolas Lirio (14:23.264)
decrepit brain. So, you know, there's a lot of money. So this is the next thing that ARACI act, the advanced research on agricultural climate impacts. This is part of the overall precision conservation. If the government is going to pay for regenerative practices, they want the data that proves it specifically with carbon things. Actually, I had a really great conversation with someone about carbon credits. They work for a carbon credit company, middleman company.
They seemed very nice. And I said, Hey, what's up with Bill Gates being like, Hey, carbon credits are the thing. And like a few months ago he was like, doesn't matter or negligible difference or whatever. and I asked her and she was like, I don't keep track of Bill Gates. was like, man, that was a perfect answer. That was like, you know, but, I wonder if that has any spark, you know, it's got some more, traction in the news. So they'll be keeping track of that. This is a little off topic, but, the, the,
save the bacon provision provision 12 override basically says, it has language to explicitly stop one state from dictating accurate cultural practices to another state. You remember how California was like, Hey, we want certain size pens for the pigs. that would basically bring an end to that. What do we think?
Judd McCullum (15:48.076)
I don't think blanket regulation is good for anybody. I'm all for, you know, animal welfare and best practices, but places are different. Things work differently. You know, if California wants to, you know, have their pigs have a little more leg room before they get eaten, then I guess that's fine. That's not for another state to dictate.
Nicolas Lirio (16:07.864)
Well, but then Iowa, just me playing devil advocate feels like California is dictating them. Okay. Okay. Riley.
Judd McCullum (16:12.91)
Exactly, that's what I'm saying.
Riley Rozendaal (16:15.862)
Well, I think we got to be careful. We have to understand that infrastructure has been built one way to, you know, here in Iowa and other states. At the same time, I don't want the government telling me what I can and can't do. What I don't do and don't take is a product. Yeah. You know? Any time that a law is passed that says, well,
If you want your jeans, you gotta buy them this way. This is the way that it's convenient for whoever. It's overreaching my opinion. Everybody. Yeah. I think it just locks in. The downside is it's too big. It's bigger than the upside.
Judd McCullum (16:53.238)
I skinny jeans.
Judd McCullum (17:01.74)
Yeah, yeah, it's easy to vilify those people that have confined animal operations. It really is. But in the end, their farmers trying to make a living. They've got those big barns that they have to build to spec for, you know, Tyson or whoever is shipping those hogs in. And, you know, a lot of those guys, you know, they're turning over millions of dollars, but they're netting a razor thin margin and have to go in when you might be within years of paying off that hog barn. And after doing all that hard work to actually start seeing a
turn on it to then have to go in and revamp the whole thing and make more spacious stalls and reduce what you're putting out. It's just going to ruin the hog market.
Nicolas Lirio (17:41.278)
So here
Here's so economies of scale. It's kind of a buzzword right now. They it makes sense. Here's what I don't like about farming. Economies of scale should say that you can make more money. It should not say that you have to be economies of scale to make any money. That's OK. Fo's do. Yeah. you don't have 12 million hogs going through every year. Well, if you have 12 million, you'll make a decent living. You'll make 60, 80 thousand dollars a year. Yeah, exactly. Maybe. But if not, I
It's a race to the bottom. I don't like it. The middlemen are in control. The packing houses, the places where people get groceries.
Judd McCullum (18:19.896)
clear. I'd like it to be regulated and I would like people just to be honest enough that we could sell pork to our neighbors without having to worry about, you know, communicable diseases or maybe poor living conditions or whatever that the FDA or USDA has to get in middle of to keep you from selling to your friend or whatever. It's just that's the answer. Getting to the bottom of where people can just have person to person commerce or sell meat retail. It's ridiculous and it's
That's the reason we have these CAFOs. That's the whole reason we have Siloed, yeah. It's just so much easier if you're going to have the livestock and jump through the hoops. Why not do it to an insanely
Nicolas Lirio (18:51.916)
Why? Because of regulation you're
Nicolas Lirio (19:01.816)
You have to do it to an insanely huge scale just to break even.
Judd McCullum (19:11.118)
It's like it's by design.
Nicolas Lirio (19:12.43)
I think that the farmers are definitely not majority at fault, but
If a civil is in the end, the buyers are not mostly at fault. But at some point society as a whole has to step up and say, this is our problem and our mess and we created it. We had a part to play in it. I'm with you, Judd. don't think the regulation, blanket regulation, whether it's from California telling Iowa what to do or from the federal place telling California they have to buy certain meats or can't ban certain meats. It should be you at your house, but you know,
and paying for what you want. That's what I think. Now, there's another argument that having USDA employees doing the checklist, like one employee having all the know-how they need and going from site to site, making sure the pork and beef are high enough quality, that probably is good for our economy instead of you having to do it and then me having to do it and then Riley having to do it. So I'm not saying there's no benefit to it, but I do think that's why I like
quote unquote third party certifications. And actually I ran into someone that has a Minnesota DNR water quality certification for farms. Isn't that cool? I just think that's so cool. Anyway, let's move on, move on. Let's talk about debt. Remember when we talking about money at the beginning? Well, apparently one of the ways that the government is trying to fix the farming crisis is by helping farmers have more debt.
Riley Rozendaal (20:47.982)
access to credit.
Nicolas Lirio (20:50.338)
guaranteed operating loans to $3 million and guaranteed farm ownership loans to $3.5 million. There are a lot of details in here that matter that I don't have. But I think more debt, basically they are incentivizing with more debt, more scale. They're saying, well, if you can just get, if they're able to get bigger, they'll be able to knock the direction we want to go.
Now it's the direction we want to go if we want to make sure that the food is as cheap as possible at the grocery store. But that is an unending beast until one person makes all the food in the United States and for the whatever cheapest price or really if you want the cheapest price, probably three, three people produce all the food in the United States. And that is definitely not the direction we want to go. So I don't want to race to the bottom of that. That's how I feel about the debt. What do you guys think?
Judd McCullum (21:38.542)
I'm making a face. You guys can't see it, but I'm making a face.
Nicolas Lirio (21:40.888)
Yeah, really sorry about no YouTube. We got back from Fezzin' Fest late last night and I forgot the cameras at my house. So no YouTube today.
Judd McCullum (21:51.628)
I just this just doesn't is wrong direction. It just another step in the wrong direction. I mean, yeah, we're going to get, you know, people access to more ground to be able to farm. But with margins the way they are and puts the way they are, it doesn't make any sense for people to have more ground. This isn't this isn't a farming economy where we're going to have much forward movement. There's big changes that need to happen.
Riley Rozendaal (22:14.918)
I see where they think it could be a good idea because you hear private lenders backing out of, especially smaller private lenders backing out of farm credit and that putting a squeeze on people but like Judd said, doesn't address the root cause. Just because you can still get an operating loan, doesn't make what you're growing or how you're managing your operation profitable.
Judd McCullum (22:42.796)
Band-Aid on Scar.
Nicolas Lirio (22:44.11)
I'd also like to bring up, we've done this before, we did it for college. And college went from something that was incredible that gave you five steps ahead in life to something that was pretty good that gave you two or three steps ahead of life. And I think those degrees are still there, get a degree in engineering. There's a bunch of degrees where you still get two or three, or you become a doctor, you get six steps ahead of life. That's awesome. But it also opened the door for degrees that gave you three steps behind in life, right?
And I'm not pooping on people who get education in art. I think art's a cool thing to be educated in. But the price of an art degree inflated unbelievably because the colleges knew that the government was backing the loans. So there's a pretty good chance that this actually just inflates land prices.
Riley Rozendaal (23:29.922)
Yep. Well, and if these lines of credit start getting out there, all you gotta do is follow the money. I've heard a million people say that, follow the money. Where is it going to end up? It's going to end up with John Deere. It's going to end up with Nutrien, all these other large corporations. It's just more guaranteed money there.
Nicolas Lirio (23:45.175)
I it.
Judd McCullum (23:46.136)
place all the other money ends up
Nicolas Lirio (23:47.65)
Yeah.
Judd McCullum (23:51.32)
middleman.
Nicolas Lirio (23:53.038)
man. okay. So, and then there's also a bill. The bill would establish a new pre-approval pilot program for farm ownership loans, which is different than the guaranteed farm ownership loans up to 3.5 million. But basically it's like, my understanding is first time home buyer, and they would help the, the new farmers compete with hedge funds. I don't understand the details on it for purchase.
Riley Rozendaal (24:20.814)
for purchasing? Purchasing. okay.
Nicolas Lirio (24:23.576)
Yep. So the next thing, well, I'm going to, I'm going to leave this for last cause it's probably the biggest deal. We'll skip down. There was no mention of year rent year round E 15, gasoline. There was no mention of it. And that was like the big thing, you know, that we were trying to push in Iowa and you know, if the Iowa farm bureau has anything to say about it, they'll get it. They'll get it added on there for the markup section. And, but, that was,
kind of a big deal that farmers have been talking about it so much for the past few weeks and that it wasn't even there was no mention of it and it would help the farmers. But I just I don't know. I don't know how to feel about that. What do you guys think? I think
Judd McCullum (25:08.718)
It's a great time if that passes to open up a small engine shop or boat engine repair shop or basically anything that that ethanol is going to eat the fuel lines out of.
Nicolas Lirio (25:13.545)
Help
Riley Rozendaal (25:20.448)
Wow. I think it's a temporary solution to a problem that is going to keep exacerbating, you know? If we continue down this path with EVs, stuff like that, and the press on corn keeps staying relatively negative in the health food sphere like it has been, I just don't see...
I don't see the long-term upside, then again, I'm kind looking to a crystal ball there, so.
Nicolas Lirio (25:52.647)
Who knows? You know us, predictors of the future.
Judd McCullum (25:55.438)
I want everybody to know, I'm not sure if you know this, but just because that E85 or E15 is a lot cheaper, your mileage goes down commensurate with the price. You're not getting 15, 16, 20, 30 miles a gallon, whatever your car gets for that same amount of ethanol added gas.
Nicolas Lirio (26:15.326)
Well, and you need to look at percentage. So if your miles per gallon goes down by three miles per gallon and you
Judd McCullum (26:26.76)
Basically money even up is what I'm saying
Nicolas Lirio (26:28.93)
Yeah, yeah, I think you're probably right, but honestly I haven't done any sort of study on it. or any sort of looking into it.
Judd McCullum (26:37.326)
When I got my truck it has that E85 capability and I went to some pretty great lengths to stretch my brain and think I was doing better but I was spending the same money for the same mileage so what it comes down to
Nicolas Lirio (26:47.982)
That is crazy and ruining your fuel line.
Riley Rozendaal (26:50.606)
filling up more and paying less.
Judd McCullum (26:53.226)
Yep, yep. It's like driving one of those Jeep Commanders, I think, that has a six gallon gas tank.
Nicolas Lirio (26:59.918)
Or like eating ramen every day and then having giant medical bills in your 40s. Yeah The last thing 11 billion dollar we talked about this it's payout from the Trump administration trying to help put a band-aid on our issues February 23rd the enrollment period open so you can go to USDA or login gov. All right, so The main thing is very interesting expanding the RNG are also pronounced as Ranger Act
It's good news for the native seed industry in the forestry. Basically, forestry was kind of all everything we do and any grants or anything. And actually we've never applied for and or gotten a grant. I've been trying to look into it to see if it's worthwhile. the anything you see with those are kind of under forestry acts. But now they are basically making it a little more robust in a way that they
specifically cite genetic resource for native seed. I think more, I don't know if it'll be grants or if they'll have loans for people wanting to start this. I am very curious. It is in section 8305 of this bill. So if you're wanting to look at the exact language,
It's going into markup phase. So this is a pretty good time to email specifically your House of Representatives to let them know, hey, this is coming down the pipeline. It matters to me. but again, anytime government money flows out of government hands, there are people and organizations that are outsourced or that are out proportionally better at collecting it. Really good at collecting.
And you know, basically whoever shows up with the biggest basket, not even necessarily doing the most work. And we've talked about this on a nonprofit for us can go one of two ways. Sometimes I connect with nonprofits. I'm like, this is not useful. I don't know what grant money you're eating up, but should be given elsewhere. And other times you connect with nonprofits and it's like, wow, you are unbelievably useful. are.
Nicolas Lirio (29:13.742)
hitting way out of your weight class here. Like, oh man, the Iowa Sportsman Club on their website have a weekly update on bills that they are for, against, or monitoring at that. Unbelievable. That's so good. I don't know. And I understand that there's a small amount of resources out there, finite amount of resources out there between different nonprofits. But I just like, I don't know, sometimes you.
you hang out in nonprofits and you're you're hitting it out of park. And other times you're like, ah, you know.
Nicolas Lirio (29:54.638)
Well, that was one of the things. OK, nurseries. I want to put money into nurseries and reforestation. So obviously trees, not as much of what we deal with here. Judd, you hang out trees all the time a little bit, but Judd actually lives in a tree. I do. He just sleeps in a tree. And but of the three big things with the reforestation, the nursery part of it and the genetic resources program.
Riley Rozendaal (30:19.08)
If I know we're not in forestry, but I've seen this happen in other countries. If you're going to be contacting a rep about reforestation, because that's your if that's your interest, I assume there will be a lot of interest. There's a lot of media buzz on it, know, putting trees back in stuff and shelter belts and things. Don't forget to mention that there needs to be diversity. There's there's headlines coming out of some of these larger.
tree planting experiments that have shown that, we're using two types of trees. And you know, get 10 years into a project like that and all of a sudden you have something like the emerald ash borer or some sort of fungus. It's, yeah, you're, making a big meal bar.
Judd McCullum (31:01.464)
Bug and blight buffet is what you just.
Nicolas Lirio (31:06.23)
What's a really diverse, like a diverse acre of prairie as like 70, 100 species that would be like, wow, that's really good. What's a diverse, like a hundred acre woodland, you know, like we're winning the poos live in what kind of, how many different kinds of trees are you hoping to see in there?
Judd McCullum (31:20.748)
many as you can get from the state nursery I guess.
Nicolas Lirio (31:23.15)
How many how many is that like is that like 10 or is it like 50? Okay.
Judd McCullum (31:28.814)
the better. I mean several different kinds of oaks, a different kinds of maples if they work for you, hickories, you know. Everything you could possibly get regardless of market value because I believe I heard right now walnut just went in the tank. So that's not what the cash cow was. Chinese stopped having so much interest in it. This is anecdotal. This comes to me through other wood people that are
You know, not talking about this sort of things is they're not as interested in harvesting that walnut. Oak is still pretty hot and oak's only probably going to get hotter because the blight that's knocking out all the bigger trees. So.
Nicolas Lirio (32:07.263)
Interesting. Well, wouldn't the blight knocking on the bigger trees mean that more get logged?
Judd McCullum (32:13.07)
Potentially, okay, we're just not having the regeneration. It's a really dangerous time for oak trees right now.
Nicolas Lirio (32:19.18)
Yeah. Yeah. Well, and that's a big part of TSI, right? Cause Oaks just can't grow in that obscene undergrowth.
Judd McCullum (32:24.77)
want to release those oak crowns whenever possible. Chemical application in those instances is not recommended. I just want to say that. If you can cut the tree down or girdle it without applying some sort of herbicide with soil activity, that's the best thing to do. So take care of your oak trees. Just go down and cut down all the crappy little things growing up underneath them. Release that crown. Let them do whatever they can do. And hopefully they don't have that root rot that's going to have them tipping over pretty quick.
Riley Rozendaal (32:53.294)
When you're taking care of small scrub trees, you're like hacking, squirting them, are you using like Garland or something like that or?
Judd McCullum (33:00.014)
I'm not spraying stuff. I mop on a triclopyr, but I don't want that to get on the ground. just, you know, basal bark. I don't do too much hack and squirt. I haven't had very, I haven't had very good luck at it. And then I'm not saying other people won't, but it's, it's a timing related thing. You can be a lot more precise by daubing on your herbicide and control where it's going. I have, I have sprayed.
to do basal bark and I ended up killing a little, you know, square foot patch right at the base of those honeysuckles. And I would rather not do that if I can avoid
Riley Rozendaal (33:34.563)
Yeah.
Nicolas Lirio (33:36.024)
hand, the the diversity of woodlands kind of like like the jungle. It's technically more diverse than prairies, but per acre, it doesn't even come close. Right. And I understand that each plant takes a more, you know, you know, more square footage or more volume. So that doesn't have as much room. the forested areas like I walk into a woodland area and I have no idea if I'm looking at something good or bad. You know, the trees. They're growing up.
Riley Rozendaal (33:59.82)
he says, but one's tall, one short
Judd McCullum (34:04.47)
I will say I can't let this slide. If you're going to go in and you're going to do any sort of TSI or you're going to do any invasive removal, make sure you manage those invasives before you start opening up that canopy. If it's a, if it's a closed canopy for you because otherwise they're going to explode and you're going to have a real.
Riley Rozendaal (34:19.81)
You're getting all kinds of light.
Nicolas Lirio (34:21.748)
Well, and do get some goats on there. If you get rid of your buckthorn or honeysuckle, give us call. We've got, we've got some mixes that we're working on. We're trying to experiment with, like what kind of seeding native seeding kind of helps keep mitigated those tree, that new tree growth mitigated for, you know, but
Judd McCullum (34:42.827)
but we'll still act as a nurse crop for other native stuff.
Nicolas Lirio (34:45.154)
Yep, exactly.
Riley Rozendaal (34:46.35)
The Wild Rise, I had actually read something that the, and then anecdotally the week after I read that I went into somebody's CRP planning right by kind of a little grove of trees and there it was, Virginia Wild Rise staring me in the face.
Nicolas Lirio (35:01.09)
Yeah, silky wild right now. I'll drive Virginia. Why we got all of them. You give us call bottle brush, which is an elements, but it's not called wild, right? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I hope this fills in. Obviously, the farm bill is not promised and who knows what could happen. Everything over there seems to be changing by the day. I can't tell. I literally have no idea what's going on over there, except that there is talk and rumblings and an 800 page document on the farm bill.
was typed out by someone or something. Some poor intern. Proposed so they're supposed to be going into market phase. Good time to email your people. Also, if you need some natives, should just call hoxenativeseeds.com. If you need it, I'll give you Judd's personal address. You can show up at his house. Yep, sure can. Don't forget our auction. If you are listening to this, Wednesday morning. Wednesday morning at 10 AM. You got till 10, 10, 15 AM. You better DPA auctions.
Riley Rozendaal (35:54.368)
Tran Register.
Nicolas Lirio (35:57.388)
And then of course we've got, honestly, in my opinion, some of the better stuff. The native Cedars we talked about, those are all March 10th, March 10th and 11th.
Judd McCullum (36:06.339)
Brand new one out there with a DPA tag on it. So you guys better
Nicolas Lirio (36:09.902)
Yeah, yeah, real, real handy, nice one. We really, really appreciate you all. And we loved hanging out with you at Fez and Fest. We'll talk to you again next time.
Judd McCullum (36:17.678)
Tune for Kent’s Retaliation next week.
