Ep. 324 The Raw and Unfiltered Story of Inheriting a Prairie Farm Overnight

Written By Hoksey Native Seeds

Kent Boucher interviews our very own Nicolas Lirio on The Prairie Farm Podcast to learn what it was like growing up on a prairie farm, what it was like to take on the responsibility overnight, and what Nicolas’ plans are for the future of Hoksey Native Seeds and The Prairie Farm Podcast.
It’s raw and vulnerable, but this is what the behind the scenes of a small business (specifically a prairie farm) looks like.


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  • Nicolas Lirio (00:00.162)

    My name is Nicholas Lirio, the CEO of Hoxie Native Seeds, and this is the Prairie Farm Podcast.

    I'm Kenyon. I'm Dr. Julie Meachin. I'm Steve Hanson. I'm Jill Bebout. Chad Gravey. My name is Jeremy French. Laura Walter. Hochsbergen. Owner of Hochsie Native Seeds. And this is the Prairie Farm Podcast. This is Hal Herry. Backcountry Hunters and Anglers Podcast.

    Skip Sly, Iowa Whitetail, Valerie VanCoten, State Historical Society of Iowa, Dr. Matt Helmers, Iowa State University,

    My name is Kyle Lobb with the Native Habitat Project. I'm Jud McCullum. I appeared out of the wilderness and this is the Prairie Farm Podcast.

    Welcome to the Prairie Farm Pocket.

    Kent Boucher (00:42.572)

    Nicholas, when did you first understand what Prairie was? Like know that this is something of, something specific and unique. It's not just grass and another type of dandelion. It's something different.

    Nicolas Lirio (01:03.618)

    don't know, when we were kids.

    occasionally mom and dad would drag us. mean like drag us. We did not want to go to like some remnants or prairies that he had planted that he was really proud of and just wanted to check in on and see. And he would always say like, this is really, you can't find this anymore. This is really cool. And that didn't mean anything to me, but now like I look back and I'm like, okay, I was taught that and it stuck in my brain until now. So that was probably the inkling.

    How old were you at that point?

    Middle school, fourth, fifth, sixth grade. Yeah, yeah, I understood that it was a thing. I didn't understand it was special. I didn't understand that it was gone. I didn't understand that it would be very difficult to get back. I didn't understand what was happening to our water quality. didn't, none of that. I just knew that it was a thing that was in places. And then I knew that we farmed prairie and I got, not bullied, I got teased for like,

    It's around 10 or 11.

    Nicolas Lirio (02:05.644)

    you guys do different farming, you know? Yeah, I mean a little bit, but no one was mean about it. I think a lot of the dads at our school really respected my dad, so they weren't at home telling their kids, now that's not real. I think they had a lot of respect for dad and so they were at home being like, yeah, he just does something different. and and so and I'm not just trying to cover up. There wasn't any bullying. I remember a couple of instances where they'd be like, I don't know, would you even call that real farming? And so.

    really? I didn't know that.

    Nicolas Lirio (02:33.902)

    But and then going to California, I really didn't. I mean, I knew that there was more nature. That was when I started to realize like, oh, there's there's nature out here. Look at these mountains. Look at these forests. But the gravity of Prairie probably didn't hit me until after I got back from college several years ago, six, six years ago. And I was like, wow, this is this is not how it's supposed to be. You know, this is not how I and what.

    what did an ecosystem of prairie look like? know, that was probably, was an evolution of that time period.

    Yeah, I mean, when you were a kid, you obviously had prairie growing around you. What was the scale like then as far as on this farm? Was it basically the same as it is today? Like when you looked out your window, did you see as much grass? Indian grass, big blue stem.

    We did. Yes, we did corn until, you know, we've continued to do beans, but we did corn until I was maybe a freshman in high school. I remember I can't remember how old I was. remember being in the combine and then hauling grain carts for the last year we did corn. So I would have at least been in seventh grade. That's when I started driving tractors and then or dad would allow me to.

    drag something that costs money. But there, so actually we were much bigger in terms of acres when I was growing up, but we didn't do near the wildflowers. We might've had five to eight species of wildflowers. so, and instead of getting big blue stem or side oats, grandma done in several days, each species would take two or three weeks. And, cause we had, you know, over by Sears, bro,

    Nicolas Lirio (04:27.84)

    Yeah, there was a big farm over there that was all grass. You know, there are several farms around here and then a lot of the wildflower patches that we have here were just grasses. And so there was a lot less time spent on the all crops and a lot more time spent on the cleaners. So in terms of scale and amount of acres is probably bigger. There are a couple of farms that we don't farm anymore since he took on more wildflowers. I I mean, he would have hired help.

    here they remember a cousin helping for a while a couple different cousins and and you know he'd get seasonal or Roscoe would come from the neighbor from from down would come and help us for a couple weeks and so he'd get that kind of help but basically he did it made all the decisions by himself and us managing the acres now like holy crap I don't know how he did it yeah but

    So it was, you had like a big taste of classic Iowa farming corn and bean operation side, but then you had almost, it feel like, did it feel like your dad was, he is an alternative crop farmer or did it feel like that was something that was kind of bolted on, on the side of a corn and bean operation when you were a kid?

    No, we did prairie mostly. Yeah, he was a prairie farmer. did a he we did a weird different thing around here. Yeah, yep

    And I guess how did that make you feel? As from a standpoint of being different, did you, did you feel, did you feel like you were, you know, this was something that made your life however, to whatever degree more significant in some way felt special?

    Nicolas Lirio (06:06.358)

    Yeah, I, I, yeah, I felt special. mean, I mean, I went to college, I started college in Dallas and then I would tell people, you know, the six foot two Filipino guy and I'd be like, no, yeah, I'm from a Prairie grass farm in Iowa. They know you're not, you're, that is not

    I don't know they're calling corn these days.

    You're not from Iowa. You're not a farmer. You know, walking around in my peacoat and scarf. Yeah. truth is I wasn't really a farmer. You know, I knew quite a bit about the specific tasks it took to farm, but I didn't know a lot about the overall decision making and operations. Yeah, I thought I did. And I knew a bunch, but it was woefully.

    Definitely not a hunter.

    Kent Boucher (06:50.35)

    Yeah, what would have happened if somebody that you trusted came up to you and said, no, we'll just say this. If God said to you, you're going to be a farmer or at least work on the farm, maybe just leave it that open-ended, you're going to work on a farm for your career at that point in your life, age 19 or whatever.

    What would have been?

    Yeah, I'm to tell you a story of I asked this exact question to another friend. This phrase a little differently. He was my roommate and I said, what would you do if the Lord said you're going to work at this factory at this one station for the rest of your life? He said, well, I'd want to be obedient, but I'd have a revolt in my flesh. My soul would go on strike against God. And that's about the answer I would have had.

    Yeah, you would've, you wanted, so you were like kind of almost like when you've gone through a really hard time, there's zero percent of you that wants to go back through that, but you're kind of like, yeah, you know, I survived that. I got that on my resume,

    Yeah, oh yeah. Yeah, like I worked at a restaurant at the beginning of COVID for the lat tail end of my college. I'd never go back to that, but I do toed it around like, oh, look at this cool thing I did. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I did that with farming prairie as well. I'd be like, oh yeah, I know how to drive tractor. You know, I'm a cool guy. You know, it was mostly feeding my own insecure.

    Kent Boucher (08:22.136)

    So basically you viewed it as like breaking your leg by getting bucked, know gored by a bison. You never want to go through it again. Man, I'm glad

    Listen to this story guys. Yeah

    I was farmer. Yeah, so it's interesting because then it wasn't much longer after that. What year did you graduate college when you were like 23? Yep. Yeah, but wait, you went to kindergarten four times.

    I was 22.

    Kent Boucher (08:56.75)

    Totally ready for kindergarten. He's gonna do great. By the way, change his diaper. Make sure he has his passie at nap time. So you graduated when you were 22. Man, that's crazy. I just can't believe you. I mean, you are getting quite old. You're 28 now, so you've been here for six years.

    So when you're 22, so at 19 you viewed working on the farm the same as somebody who's been gored by a bison and lived to tell about it. But within three years, you're back on the farm. And I imagine there's like a simplified.

    I'm not going

    Kent Boucher (09:43.242)

    explanation and I think I know that one. But what's the true unpolished, like everything considered? it like, well, there weren't a lot of jobs at that time and this was a for sure thing or no, I just knew that the Lord has called me to do something I did not feel prepared to do. What's the unpolished truth on why you ended up back at the place that you really didn't?

    want to go back to in any way, shape or form.

    Man. Okay. Unpolished. Let's see if let's see how accurately I remember this. January 2020. So my brother-in-law was working here. He was basically doing my role before I took over, which was marketing, sales and implementing systems to streamline Prairie and keep the price down. And that was his role. And he did a phenomenal job. And there were two really big

    Remember it's a family show.

    Nicolas Lirio (10:43.854)

    pain points of him working here. He got along with Dad great and he loved the work and unfortunately I'm kind of speaking for him but I don't think this is a secret for him. There were two big pain points. He was here alone a lot and he is a social guy. He loves teamwork, he loves being on TV. He's like the ultimate coaches kid. If you say like I don't know if I could do that, dude you could totally do that. You're so good at this though. Just a little motivation. He's like that and he's one of my favorite.

    So he's a motivational speaker is what he is. Yeah, he definitely has motivational speaker vibes.

    Yeah, he's he's an incredible, incredible guy. mean, like him and my sister just adopted two kids out of the goodness of their heart. Yeah, just because they, you know, they're just yeah, amazing people. And so that was one really big strike. And that wears on you. He was here for years and just, you know, time after time, just coming in the office, being alone for eight hours and then just leave and being with that a little bit. And he did some work outside, but there was enough office work that he had to be in the office for so many hours. And so that was huge. And the second was

    the prairie industry basically ground to a halt for two years while he was here. So he couldn't get a raise and in the middle of that he adopted these kids and you know and so he got paid kind of he got paid fairly when he started and he grew and then he wasn't able to get wasn't able to get a raise and it wasn't my dad said several times he since Aaron hasn't been here anymore said I wish I could have given him more money and it just it just didn't work out and I think at several points

    Dad was paying Aaron more than he was paying himself just, you know, cause he knew that was fair. And that's the, that's the responsibility of an owner of a business is you get more when the, when the time's good, you get more. And when the time's bad, you get less. And.

    Kent Boucher (12:31.822)

    Doesn't seem to work that way in a lot of corporate. Usually it's job cuts and pay raises for C-suite.

    That's

    Nicolas Lirio (12:39.918)

    man, dude, I have several family members and friends that work for Wells Fargo and I just hear about the behemoth that is Wells Fargo and their corporate. And it's not like, that those people are evil. It's just like soulless. There's just no life in that place. You know, a lot of awesome people and just the corporation just sucks you dry. But so those two, those were two really big things. So January, 2020 comes around and Aaron lets dad know that

    he's going to, uh, he's going to move on. That was a big deal. It was, it was very painful for my dad. It was very painful for air. Yep. January, 2020. I was finishing up, uh, my internship at, uh, a Bible college. Your last year is an internship and your spoke. The idea is that you learn all the good stuff about how to have good virtues, but they were having problems with their students leaving kind of arrogant 22, 23 year olds going into churches being like,

    January 2020.

    Kent Boucher (13:34.2)

    people think your college is like weirdoville. Why you explain that to our listeners a little bit? Because you always add that little, you know, several podcasts, you're like, well, this is either going to make people stop listening to me ever again. Explain that a

    Yeah.

    Nicolas Lirio (13:46.04)

    A little bit. So I went to Bethel church. Bethel church. I mean, that's I get that response a bunch. Really? And I've had several friends since I moved back that said, I want you to know, I totally discredited Bethel in every way. And they're the only thing that I think is like a pro for them is that you and your wife came from there. So and and.

    I don't it's a really extreme school. I mean if you google it you'll be like this dude was in a cult this guy went to the hole I mean it really I get that response sometimes but I mean if you ask my siblings they know Nicholas came back totally changed a better a totally different better human than when I was there and it was was true there was some some really amazing things I've got friends that just are thriving in life and are blessing to everyone they're around and yeah so but I do

    I had classmates, they were pretty weird.

    I've recognized about religious infighting, right, is it's usually done from the perception that I'm gonna say that we're not perfect here, but I really kind of believe that I am. I believe I haven't missed anything yet. My brand hasn't missed anything yet. I'm sure we got some blind spots on.

    Yeah.

    Nicolas Lirio (15:13.038)

    You know, we're not perfect really name one. Yeah

    Point it out. then, and so I'm a big eye test, a big proof is in the pudding kind of guy, you know? If when you see the finished product and...

    And Jesus says that, he says, judge by my fruit, and they'll judge you by your fruit. And a good tree has good fruit, and a bad tree has bad fruit.

    Right, and I think that that is, and not to say that we should end any kind of criticism if there's an organization that's blatantly doing something wrong, you know, like Crusades back in the day.

    Inquisition.

    Kent Boucher (15:51.822)

    Not a good mark. No, The crusade's bad.

    I'm just like a yellow pros and cons listed on it. It's like mother Teresa, the pros. And then like on the other side, you've got crusade.

    Right, right. And so I'm not saying that there should never, it should be free of criticism, but blanket writing off is oftentimes unhelpful. I would even say most times unhelpful. And I think it's just an important part of your story that you went to that specific place and that our listeners understand the significance of.

    a controversial place. I they send out ministry teams all around the world and one came to our area in Iowa and it about split several churches because some pastors were like for it and then people in their congregation like, would you go to that conference? I it was.

    What's interesting is so many people that are against it love Bethel music. know what I mean? It's playing everywhere. And maybe they even take some of the songs that were written by Bethel and they make them their brand or whatever. But it's interesting how there again, proof is in the pudding,

    Nicolas Lirio (17:00.246)

    Bye.

    Nicolas Lirio (17:06.934)

    And a big strike against it within the church is people are worried that it is hyper grace and for anyone who doesn't who isn't a Christian hyper grace means that you think anything and everything is okay and and permissible and and that their People go there and they listen and I think they kind of pick and choose what they hear and they leave hyper grace I know people who are there and they leave kind of you know universalist which is

    Don't worry, Jesus' blood covers it.

    Yeah, yeah. Don't, don't worry about your actions here, even though a huge part of it. And that sound, I'm not trying to be judgmental. It's just, that is definitely not in the theology of scripture. So the, the, so people leave with that and that's a big, that's, you know, that's an issue that that is part of the fruit of Bethel churches that people leave with that. But man, you make a list of 20 of the most godly selfless people that I know.

    They were either students or pastors there. And I knew them intimately. I don't put people on that list that I don't know closely. I respected a lot of the leaders there that I didn't know, but I would only put people on that list that I knew personally and intimately and man, I mean just the courage and the grace and the faith and the kindness and the compassion.

    Tell the story of the wildfires there in Redding and the response from Bethel, which is located in Redding.

    Nicolas Lirio (18:37.614)

    Yeah, I mean it was a little controversial. don't if you guys remember there were giant wildfires in Northern, California Summer of 2018 Everything was burning down around us. I mean you could stare at the Sun and Sun looked green It just kind of looked like a little a light it looked like a light bulb in this guy. You could just look at it and it's fine Look at that thing and it rained ash for days and days and days

    2018-2019 timeframe.

    Kent Boucher (19:00.546)

    Just look at it.

    Nicolas Lirio (19:06.754)

    And Bethel. So Bethel is kind of on this big hill and it's very they didn't realize they'd get as big as they were when they set up their their campus. And so the entrance and exits just like one small little two lane road. And so people were showing up to like sleep and stay there. They're like, this big church will let us stay. And they had to say no one. They didn't have any showers or any baths. So that's illegal.

    But two, if the fire got there, they wouldn't be able to evacuate everyone right, because they had this tiny room. So people were really upset. And then after the fires were done, Bethel put up, you know, on their own dime, put up millions of dollars, like just went and got food and necessities from, well, like bulk shipped them in from Walmart and had

    Did they send you guys to the ruins of houses to sift?

    Or yep. Well, so their big first was if you didn't get a house, they would for every three people, I think, in your house rounding up, they gave you a grocery cart and you could fill it with whatever you wanted. So they filled up their church like it was a Wal-Mart and they, you know, and so that was kind of the first thing. And then the second thing. Yeah. Then they organized hundreds of volunteers and.

    people

    Nicolas Lirio (20:28.098)

    What you did is you would go to people's houses and we sifted through the ashes looking for their belongings so we could return it to them. And Bethel, there were several people that didn't go to the church.

    I want to camp out on that because I got a little taste of that once in a community I was teaching and got hit really hard by a tornado and There were several houses like totally destroyed and I helped with two different cleanups and That's like everyone thinks. yeah, whatever you need. I'll be there but no Cancel it set everything else aside on your schedule, you know, you still got to go to work So it's not like you're doing it during work hours it's going on when your family time and everything else and going in

    and doing dirty, difficult physical work. It's a real commitment of your time to go and do that. And there's people that do that for weeks on end to help and pitch in. I don't want to just be like, oh yeah, you helped do that. No, that's a dirty, miserable job.

    Yeah. And something I really respected is the church, the church, Bethel church as a whole, ask themselves, what is the city's love language? How can we love this city? Not how we want to say, we're going to love you guys. We're going to go evangelize on the streets or whatever. What do, what does the city interpret as love? And so they organized thousands and thousands and thousands of hours every year for, volunteer park improvement work.

    for they Bethel raised a bunch of money to make sure the police the police force basically ran out of money and was the one that raised the money and gave them enough money so they could keep all their policemen on staff and not have to let anyone go. They do this the city services where like I was a part of one where basically social work where people don't have any money and they'd call in and it's really tricky you can't just.

    Nicolas Lirio (22:24.234)

    hand out hundreds of dollars, you know, people get wind of that and it becomes unsustainable. But we would give out gas cards and food cards and we're trying to make decisions on like who really needs it. Because there really were the single moms whose electricity got shut off. And then there were people just calling, hoping they can get right. So you're trying to make that decision. But Bethel and all these organizations literally just on the thought of what would love the city with nothing in return. We're not looking for votes. We're not looking for you to pass our

    for you to pass our new building projects or they're just like, how can we love this city? And I think they, I think very highly of the leadership team at that church. got an intern for, I was privileged to intern for two of the leaders there. This was 2019 and then into 2020 would have been that school year. And this is kind of where the story continues. I didn't really learn how to serve. I was so bad at it. was so,

    worried about how I would come across and what people thought of me. I didn't actually have the internal world to be an asset on their team. Poor them. mean they, they and everybody else, I've got a good friend, Bria that, you know, we we've talked about and she was on my team with me and she kicked butt on that team. She got so much done. I didn't get anything done. And I felt like the Lord said when I was finishing up, I had heard that

    My brother-in-law had quit. It was a big deal for the family. We're getting to April-ish, so COVID is in full swing, and I was just praying. felt the Lord say, you haven't learned how to serve. You need to learn how to, before you run off into the world, you need to learn how to serve. And man, I almost, I didn't kind of admit it to myself right away, but I knew right away. And serving meant setting aside my dreams fully. Everything that I want in life. Totally set them aside.

    What were those dreams at that time?

    Nicolas Lirio (24:16.014)

    I don't know, mean, I really...

    Would you have gone and like say if you could have gotten a job at Google would you have jumped on that right away or what?

    No, I got offered a work youth pastor job in a wealthier subdivision of SoCal, which would have been a very privileged job. And the pastor who was trying to get me there was a really cool dude. And he would have mentored me really well to this. I probably wouldn't have handled it well. I don't think I could have handled that weight of responsibility. I hadn't learned how to serve. So and you can't lead well if you don't serve. And you're talking about a youth group that's like 400 kids.

    Lord, you I didn't I couldn't have done that. Well, there was a church here in Iowa that was trying to recruit me to be their head pastor. That would have been disastrous for me. I didn't know how to serve. I couldn't have led, you know, and

    I'm in the hospital. that's too bad. Well, let me know when to get out.

    Nicolas Lirio (25:14.018)

    Speaking of which were you there on Sunday to give you regular? I would never do that but and and so I just didn't I didn't know how to serve and on the Internship team that I was on there was a lady there who worked for them and made basically minimum wage and She didn't work for the church really she worked for the couple that I interned for and she was doing what I was convicted to do she

    time.

    Nicolas Lirio (25:42.666)

    sat down and said, I'm going to serve these people. And I asked, and this lady was like in her prime. was 26, 27 years old, wicked smart, could have been a worship leader anywhere. Very, very talented musician, beautiful, just like all the things. And literally I was like, well, what would you do if, what if you, what would you do if Ruth and Steve like packed up, went somewhere else and couldn't pay you? She's like, I'd probably work.

    I'd move there and work part time and babysit for them when I could. Like just whatever I could do to help this couple. I'm supposed to serve this couple. And I knew right then I said.

    I need a babysitter like that.

    Yeah, well it to be fair Ruth and Steve were such amazing leaders they were the kind of people that you would like It would have been a worthwhile cause to give up your life and follow them. I mean they're incredible human

    Yeah, I'm definitely not that kind of a worthwhile person.

    Nicolas Lirio (26:34.542)

    I feel, I feel similarly. I'm like, you know, every time I would hang out with them, I would just cry cause they were so affirming and just like, you know, Nicholas, what's really special about you. And they would just punch you in the, in the gut where it mattered, you know, or the, went, they confronted really well. They knew exactly how much to expect from me and hold me to that standard and push me a little bit. And so they were amazing. so,

    That girl, I was inspired by her and I knew I was supposed to copy what she was doing, but for someone else. And I went home.

    I think it's supposed to be on the farm. And my biggest indicator was because of how much I didn't want to go to go to the farm. And this so this was in April ish. And I was you know, praying and I just felt like that was the time and this was right when I was starting to date my now wife. Keep in mind, we got married a few months later. So we had started dating in April ish. And, you know, I live in California through COVID through the summer of COVID.

    my wife and I get married in September and sometime in the summer I called my dad and said, hey, I'm gonna come back to the farm and I'm gonna help you for this fall. I think I told him that fall. You know, a season of helping, several months. And he was like, okay, yeah, and he was gonna have me answer the phone, talk to the farmer. You know, that's what he, he hated answering the phone. His phone would ring when. No, they literally didn't. Like, they weren't gonna mix. This business was just gonna fall apart because he wasn't gonna.

    Carol and paperwork did not go together.

    Kent Boucher (28:06.062)

    That's one of the things that amazed me about Carol is he just knew somehow the paperwork would get taken care of, but it wasn't going to be him doing it. He just knew it was going to get done by somebody.

    And yeah, dad was an inspirational enough guy that there were people in the community that would like I think Steve de Young would help him like put mixes together. I Couldn't use Excel. I don't think he could have I don't think he could have logged in to the our Mac Mac You know what mean? And so he did figure out email, know kind of towards the last couple years and the first the first websites He really figured out where the auction websites

    seed calculators

    Kent Boucher (28:32.771)

    Yeah.

    Nicolas Lirio (28:42.22)

    He didn't really understand browsers, he could, he knew right where to click to get to these, these bookmark auction sites and would peruse those suckers like they were Facebook. And,

    Yeah, Big Iron was Carol's Facebook.

    Like you're looking at your screen time. You've got like Instagram, Facebook, Tik Tok, and dads are just big iron auction houses. man. So, so I called him and told him that, you know, you could tell he was excited and I worked part time for him and I worked part time for my buddy Caleb doing marketing for him for, for his excavation business. That was new. My wife and I were newly married and we didn't have any money and I think I was, I got hired on it.

    18 bucks an hour or something and didn't know what I was doing. Didn't know what I was talking about. All these government programs. I'm having to learn on the fly. I'm calling the NRCS every other day asking, Hey, what does this mean? What, how do you use a calculator? Just like so ignorant. and then, but I felt not committed. I didn't feel like I'd actually set my dreams aside. I felt like I was building my own life and the whole point was I was supposed to set my life aside to learn how to serve. And so my wife and I talked about it and winter like 2020

    December I told dad I said I will work for you until you pay off the debt mm-hmm terrible and it was tough and the commute was long that that hurt it still hurts 45 minutes one way I like listening to stuff in the mornings and then by the time I'm driving home in the evening I'm like what am I doing why this is terrible an hour and half every day and so

    Nicolas Lirio (30:18.718)

    those things kind of roped together and I was slowly having more buy-in and, and, people's internal worlds have always been important to me. And, coincidentally conservation lines up with that very, very well. you know, consumption is just not the way to a healthy internal world. And, fun fact, fasting, like in the, in the world of fasting, the idea is to put aside your wants and the things you use to fill your life.

    so that you are confronted fully with your inner man through prayer and seclusion is kind of the idea of fasting. And one of the major ways of fasting that is if you're gonna say I am fasting right now, one of the major things, obviously people talk about food. One of the other major things, shopping, consuming, bringing things in, going to movies. Those are because you can.

    Yeah, I agree with that. Everyone should try and think back to the last time they went a day without spending money. Yeah. And I mean, I'm not talking like, my mortgage gets auto-pulled out of my bank account or whatever. But like, truly, where you go through the action of, even if it's buying fuel or buying, you love it when I call it fuel too, by the way. You confronted me on that one. Can you not call it that?

    Really? Yeah, I can't believe I cared about that

    Even if it's that or I mean just buying a cup of coffee at the drive-thru. Just try and think of a day. When's the last day you did not willfully spend money? Justly spend money.

    Nicolas Lirio (31:53.71)

    I'll take it. I'll take you a step further. When was the last time you didn't consume anything? Nothing out of your fridge. No electricity at your house.

    About water. Kinda need it.

    I knew a dude who did a three day water fast and his night and day difference before and after. don't recommend talk to your doctor about that.

    don't think so, he's totally dehydrated on that. Big difference.

    Well, dude, this, mean, it really impacted him in a positive way. I have several friends who went 40 days with no food, night and day different on who they were before and who they are after. And I know we had a podcast recently and I talked about like fasting. I just, it's so good for you. It's so good for you. But, and so the no shopping. So the conservation piece, it always made sense. It clicked right away. I love it.

    Nicolas Lirio (32:43.15)

    And, uh, but then it was kind of the buying in the farm and, seeing our strengths and our weaknesses and our weaknesses, we've got great strengths. I mean, we talk about them a lot with, with dad and, and his knowledge and his ability to build things and the strengths that he provided for us in the eighties and nineties by going against the grain and chasing after this stuff. There are strengths today with Kent and I and our podcasts, you know, there's amazing strengths. There are equal.

    weaknesses here. They're, know, I, I, I personally have a bunch of them in me. What were you saying earlier? You know, I'm not perfect, but I don't want point any of them out.

    Yeah, we a business made up of people.

    Kent Boucher (33:24.344)

    Yeah, mean, of course your weaknesses are a little more, you know, visible.

    Yeah. So that's the story of how, how I ended up at Hoxie after I told him I'd hang out till he was, till we were done with the debt. And this was no, I wasn't like getting a share in the business. wasn't getting an ownership percentage. There was no talk about that. And so it was just, what are his, I had to think, what are his dreams? Cause he's not going to sit down and be like, you know, my dreams are his dreams are like, he wanted to work on cars, you know, those were like his dreams. He wanted to see prayer on the landscape. So he wasn't thinking like,

    Yeah, I want to make sure all this debt gets paid off. That was just out of his mind, out of his brain and.

    Yeah, it wasn't a strong suit of Carol to be focused on the part of being a paperwork person is being focused on the financial paperwork

    Yeah. And so I saw it as, as okay, there's a big bridge between his dreams and where we're at now. Even if he doesn't know how to build that bridge, I'm going to learn how to build that bridge. And that was part of the serving piece. And that's how I got started. And I've been here ever since twice, twice. I was like on the brink of quitting. Can I had long conversations? Yeah, basically I told him, I gotta be, but I didn't like, I wasn't like, I'm done here. I told him I would like to start.

    Kent Boucher (34:35.085)

    You did quit.

    Nicolas Lirio (34:42.67)

    phasing out. And I told her, I'm not talking next month or the month after, I'm talking four or six months from now, I wanna get someone else trained, I won't leave you without having someone else trained. And then what happened was I was mowing my own lawn in Knoxville, I was listening to a sermon by Bill at Bethel, and he was talking about Jeremiah 29 and 11. Everybody knows Jeremiah 29 and 11. You know the context of Jeremiah 29 and 11?

    No. Weeping prophet, that's the context I know. He's worried about the fall of Israel.

    So I'm going

    Nicolas Lirio (35:18.83)

    Yes, because at the time they were slaves in Babylon and the verse is I have plans for you plans to prosper, not to harm you. You know, people love reciting that verse. Let me tell you the con. Let me give you a little context. Oh, yeah, at least. So here's what's going on in Jeremiah's time. There are all these prophets telling the Israelites, don't worry, don't get used to being here in captivity. We're going back soon. And then comes Jeremiah and he says, actually, this place that sucks.

    Always read the chapter.

    Nicolas Lirio (35:48.984)

    You're going to stay here and in this place that you don't like, you're going to prosper. I have plans to prosper you, not to harm you, plans for your good plans for a vision of a future in this place that you hate. And not that I hated the farm. There's it was just honestly, it was a bunch of things stacked up and one of them don't take lightly is the drive. There's a lot of studies on how long your drive is every day for work and the longer it is, the lower percentage you're there.

    for long period of time. So and yeah, and so I listened to that sermon like, hey, the place you are right now might suck, but the Lord still has a plan to prosper you and for you to prosper others. was the that's after that comes after is the Lord actually has a plan that Babylon would prosper because Israel.

    prospered inside of them. And that was so inspiring to me. And I thought, man, I think I'm making the wrong choice. And I think I need to go back. So I went back and I told him that I was going to stay. And it was a it was a good and hard conversation. mean, that was not fun. That was not fun. And yes, when I told him I was going to leave, I cried, cried in that conversation. I was. It was, I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah, it was tough. And so.

    bad day.

    Nicolas Lirio (37:09.014)

    And then there was another time I didn't quit, but I was like, Ken, I don't think I can do this. And I think so. Yeah. Like a year or something before that. And I don't know what changed. But yeah, every October I would get a low, but this last year I didn't get a low and I think we were too busy fighting for our lives in October.

    That was before that.

    Kent Boucher (37:32.014)

    think a big part of it was too, were, when Peyton was here, you had a friend around, you've said many times, you realized you didn't hate the farm, you hated being alone at the farm. And so when Peyton was here, it helped, you had the other problems at hand that were hard to deal with, but you had someone, a companion, and then when he left, it was,

    Yeah, that's true. That's an important part of my evolution.

    Kent Boucher (38:00.588)

    the coming months when things really, I think, started getting bleak for you because I was always so busy out here with Carol that we weren't really spending much time together.

    It's not a good day for Nicholas to look at the computer for six to eight hours alone.

    Right, then some of the work that Peyton did got largely shifted onto you. And it was stuff that you did not like. was terrible. You could have had 10 friends with you doing it and you still would have hated doing it. And I think that that all kind of added on. And I think it's important to mention Riley in this part of it. You identified, I need somebody to, you know, we're.

    We're growing, we're moving more seed. And that's one the challenging things about being at Hoxie is we are a growing company. And growing pains are a real thing. Anytime you get up to a point of transition, to take that step up the ladder is a scary thing. And it's hard to know when's the right time to do that. that step usually comes with hiring more people on.

    Yeah. And so was, was you, lot of that pressure was on you while we waited to take that step and hire Riley.

    Nicolas Lirio (39:15.328)

    Yeah, yeah, and man, I, Riley was a godsend. mean, he's an unbelievable worker.

    What do mean we had three type B people working here?

    Yeah, Riley was our first type a keeps things organized keeps us honest, you know and And I really appreciate Riley I think when When you're doing the soul sucking work that you're That you hate it feels like you're pushing against a boulder that just does not move Yeah, and so there are two parts of benefit to Riley coming on one

    So let's say was, it's like pushing on a thousand pound boulder. I'm never going to move it. So Riley comes on and now I don't have to push on that boulder. And I've now grown character to go to the 400 pound boulder. I couldn't move before and I can now push it. I have more character and more knowledge and more internal world assets at my disposal to be a better leader, to be a better servant, to be a better coworker here. And that was really good for me.

    But Riley was, can't, I mean, people would ask me, like at Thanksgiving, what are you thankful for this year? I would literally say Riley. I'm thankful that Riley came. Hey, what was the best part of your year this year? I think I'm supposed to say God or my wife, but Riley. Riley was the best part of my life this year. And I mean, it was, I mean, you saw the change in me. It was night and day when Riley, because Riley caught on so fast, he would ask me a question, he would never ask me that question again.

    Nicolas Lirio (40:50.614)

    And then I would be like, Hey, did you talk about, what about this order? that shipped out last week. okay. Fantastic. That would, you know, and I, before Riley was here and to this day, I feel immense responsibility to our customers. So if you get, if I get an email from you, I, don't know if this is real. I feel responsibility. You should get an email back within 30 minutes to an hour. And so I'm so busy that I get home at seven o'clock. I still have 20 emails.

    I'm supposed to send, I feel deep responsibility and there's my wife who I haven't talked to for two days. And then what do you do? You know, and so that stress, comes in from one side and it comes in from the other. My marriage would not work if it wasn't with my specific wife. I don't know why she puts up with me. I mean, like, all my friends' wives, I love them to death. I don't know if it would've worked because man, the stuff my wife puts up with, with just my craziness.

    uniquely matched with the people if you kind of like when you followed God's leading to come here and serve. Yeah. I mean if apply it to other areas of your life, you really get, you really get blessed in ways that you see.

    But I want to I want to talk a little bit about April 2020, which was when, you know, it was kind of a several week evolution. And I had friends praying for me and telling me what they thought they were hearing from the Lord for me. And I'm supposed to want I'm supposed to go back to Knoxville, Iowa. And I feel like I'm supposed to serve on the farm. A year later, Dad got diagnosed with cancer. the doctor thought it was almost exactly a year later, the doctor thought

    It was 10 to 12 months before that, that the cancer actually started on it's, um, on. Yeah. Yeah. Cause he thought, you know, the cells have been there for years probably, but it's actual exponential increase kind of, you know, it hits this critical mass point and then it's, and, um, that would have been right about the time that I was praying, trying to figure out what I was supposed to do. And, uh, so.

    Kent Boucher (42:38.123)

    It has to says

    Nicolas Lirio (42:57.506)

    Call away you will, but if that's not divine intervention, I don't know. I don't know if God's real, you know, and and it was a big deal because remember dad was still he was upset that Aaron was left. It wasn't, you know, what didn't hold a grudge. It wasn't awkward, you know, at family gatherings, but it was painful to him. It was emotionally painful to him. So to have, you know, his son come back to the farm and say, yeah, I'd be willing to I'd be willing to work here is I'm sure every farm dad's dream, you know, and so.

    Well, that brings me to my next question I wanted to ask you about is just that relationship with Carol. You spent so much time in your life with your stepdad. Yeah. And probably from a just a pure hour standpoint, I was thinking, is Carol the parent that you have spent more hours with than all of your

    any excitement or other

    than all your other parents?

    Because he came into your life pretty early on. were like seven, right? Or something like that. Yeah.

    Nicolas Lirio (44:04.526)

    Yeah, mom and him started spending significant time together. I might've been six, six or seven. Um, he was around a bunch and I'd come to the farm and quote unquote help him. made $2 an hour for years. Um, the, don't know. That's a good question. Probably not only because my mom was a single mom for awhile and she was starting a tutoring business. So my brother and I just,

    went to work with her all the time, all the time. And I still have people in the community that'd be like, yeah, I was, I would have meetings with your mom and you'd come running in asking her about some toy or something.

    But it's still unique in the sense that and the Yeah as a step-parent just how much time you yeah, you spent with them who?

    Last 10 years for sure.

    Nicolas Lirio (44:48.27)

    Who marries someone that has a 17 year old, a seven and a five year old? Like who does that? You know, the, most, that means you're without the benefit of having them as a baby, you're about to go through the most difficult years of those kids' lives. You know, and I, gave my parents hell in school.

    I bet, So, it's had to have shaped you in some way, spending so much time with Carol. I mean, I only spent, you know, weekdays for the last three years with the man, and it shaped me, you know.

    in a ratio of people that have shaped my life for time spent with them is very outsized. So Carol, in some ways, has imprinted on you in a lasting manner, I gotta think. Yeah.

    Yeah. Well, one of dad's incredible weaknesses. I mean, this weakness, it's as incredible as his strengths are incredible is his communication ability. And it's not just incredible in, in things like he doesn't communicate enough. That man would make up words and insert them into the sentence. It's just like they were words. And you go, I don't, I have no idea what you're talking about. I don't, but I don't want to hurt your feelings. I don't know how to say this. So

    I remember I had spent like I was at my girlfriend's house too late and I was in college or something and the next day we were working on the bathroom together and he he said now cover your kids ears he said you know if you're gonna do the hanky-panky at least hide your truck behind their house or something

    Nicolas Lirio (46:40.15)

    That was his communication level and that was it. That was all I ever heard about the birds and the bees. Yeah. And that basically came to work. Now what he taught, unbelievable, unbelievable lessons that will take forever with us, you know, and watching him when I was younger, you know, just, I mean, what, like taking care of the yard, that I, it's like instilled in me.

    You know, it bothers the freak out of me if I have, uh, if my yard is a certain way. Now, right now my wife and I live in a place that doesn't have a yard, but like I took care of her yard and I took care of it exactly to the extent that dad took care of his yard. Right. It's, it was ingrained. It was imprinted in me just watching him around. Um, and, uh, and so those are the things like, uh,

    The neighborliness he was just like an ultimate neighbor. He was just no matter what he was gonna help you out if you were his neighbor and That imprint like grilled inside of me, know my mind I'd help my neighbor Almost before I'd help friends, you know, it's just it's so some of those things and then when we work together I learned learned a lot of stuff

    Yeah, when you guys worked together, was fun to watch. Like when we did that huge planning job up in Tama, we did 800 acres of CRP that we planted. Yeah. And I remember I was so new, I was just stumbling through everything. I didn't know any of the process or procedure. Yeah, I kept stressing. Yeah, I was. And just watching how you guys worked together, it was like, man, this has developed over years. Like not just, oh yeah, Nicholas has been here for two years now.

    Hush.

    Kent Boucher (48:20.78)

    No, this goes back to when Nicholas was 12 and that was fun to watch. I don't know if you were aware of that.

    You and I are a strong case for nurture over nature. You'll hear me if I'm working outside and I'm thinking deeply, I do this. That was him. He did that. That's where he taught me.

    And I think your mom deserves a lot of credit for this too, because she's an extremely hard worker. But Carol, both her and Carol left that work ethic imprint on you. yeah. And almost to your detriment at times, sometimes you can struggle with a little workaholicism.

    I've talked to a counselor about this a lot. I struggle less with workaholism than I do with taking on responsibility that isn't actually there. Like I was talking about with the customers. It's like, I'm happy to not work. But if I feel that responsibility from, sometimes I make up the responsibility. Like when we stopped doing reels for months, man, we're just letting people down. And I was staying up till 9.30 at night working, just trying to get our podcast stuff edited and get it on YouTube.

    And it was was way too much, but I felt fake responsibility. And I think, you know, mom and dad, they they probably imprinted that more than anything. I should also shout out to my biological dad and his family work. mean, there's like there's like a family belief system that just for 20 to 30 years of your life, you work for 70 hours a week. That's how you do your life. And then you benefit on the back end. And and so they're they're

    Nicolas Lirio (49:54.41)

    well into the grind, my aunts and uncles and stuff. But I'm curious to see how me and all my cousins do on that side. But yeah.

    You're also a pretty good operator, better than people would expect. thanks. And I can tell that came from Carol. Yeah. Both through modeling and through, we'll say, verbal training.

    Yeah. Every farm can have some verbal training.

    But I have to imagine when I was writing this I put thought into this So if it doesn't quite come out right just know that there's a deeper intention behind it But you have to be somewhat I would think maybe not I haven't lived through what you live through and losing a parent yet but you have I would just think that

    there's probably a sense of you lost some sense of being parented when Carol died. You know, like right now, if I'm in a tight spot, I know I can call my parents. And I know I can either get advice or I could get bail money or I could get a place to take my family because my house just got.

    Kent Boucher (51:14.956)

    taken away from me or something. I know that on the worst day I can go to them and there's security in that. You lost a chunk of that. Now thankfully you still have your mom, you still have your biological father and your stepmom, but Carol contributed to that sense of well-being and maybe not just in those basic Maslow's hierarchy of needs type way, advice for sure.

    and an example for sure and steadiness in the family. You know, he was a source of that. You know, he's a pillar type of person in the family. And has that, I mean, has that weighed on you that that loss of being parented in some ways?

    man of being parented. Yeah. And in a bunch of different ways. So the last thing to the last two things to go were the security blanket that he was still he was still the one that shouldered the responsibility to the bank to you know the buck stopped with him kind of thing. And then the other last one was you know the advice piece. But before that I mean I could feel it slipping away because and our first

    house flip, he helped my wife and I a bunch. Oh, yeah, he would come out. A lot of times they'd come to church with us. And then after church, he and I after lunch, he and I would work on the house for several hours and show that we don't. Yeah. Yeah. And he liked it. He liked that kind of work. But then he started to not feel as good. And he came out a couple of times with our second house. I don't even know if he came to the coffee shop while we were flipping it that, you know, until after we were done. I don't I don't know if he showed up at the time.

    I basically took everything he had for the last year to be here keeping up with what he was doing.

    Nicolas Lirio (53:08.396)

    Yeah, do what do whatever he could hear. Yeah, and I mean maybe really closer to two years year and half two years And and so I felt that like fall away slowly the

    the, but what grew is as I took on more responsibility here at Hoxie, he's a super affirming guy. So, you know, when.

    That was the side of Carol's communication that he got an A+.

    Yeah, yeah, he didn't. He wasn't going to be eloquent and tell you like, wow, the way that you connected with those customers, that was really great. it. But he would put his hand on his shoulder and say, man, I'm proud of you. Thank you for your efforts. Yeah. You know, and man, miss that part of being parented. Yeah. I'm a firm believer that pride in yourself is very good, but it can't come from you. It has to come from an authority. Right. It to come from specifically a dad is a best case scenario. And

    And yeah, the bestowment of pride upon someone is cannot be overstated. Yeah, absolutely. And.

    Kent Boucher (54:17.848)

    transforms our life. It's life giving.

    So I'd pay a lot of money to have that one more time, know, or, and, a lot of times working on the house, man, so many times we would cut corners and he, you know, cause we didn't have any money. My wife and I, so we're cutting corners while working on these houses and he, I don't know, I'd really do it this way. And I'd love to say we got 10 years in and thought, yeah, probably would have six months in and you go, yeah, that would have saved us money. He was right on that stuff. So those things, I really miss him on the,

    And then there's, there is something about like being the oldest son or just being the oldest sibling that's heavily involved in the farm and the responsibility there. And now I've got three younger sisters and I am not and never will be their dad, but there's some spots in there that I need to now fill, right? Like they're having car problems or they're to call, you know what mean? Or, one of my little sisters texted me and was like,

    I would like this thing. Will my older brother give me money for it? know, I'm curious if dad would have given him money. He was so soft with it. He would have given it up. And, and so there's, you know, there's some of those things that I felt the responsibility on. And so some of those are like, I miss him as a person and who he was to me. And some of those is like, I miss not having this responsibility. but,

    But something that I think is really important on, and I think I said this on Travis Frank's pocket, that's the only other time that I said this publicly. July 7th, he passed away sometime, they think kind of late afternoon, maybe into the evening. was, he'd been asleep for hours, but passed away in his work clothes on his, on his. And right about 24 hours before that would have been between, right around one o'clock, 1 p.m. on Sunday.

    Kent Boucher (56:09.198)

    I was planning to come in that day.

    Nicolas Lirio (56:18.314)

    I was driving. So remember this whole talk that I gave about serving. was driving to help my mom with something out there Airbnb that my dad would have normally helped with. I hadn't been feeling good, been having bad headaches that week and went in to help her. And on the drive in, I was just praying and I felt the Lord said, you've learned to serve and now you're going to transition to learning how to lead, which aren't that different. Fun fact. But I,

    So I was on the way there and I was thinking, yeah, I know, like, dad doesn't have that much more time working on the farm. He's going to start transitioning out. I did not and was not prepared for 24 hours later, almost to the hour. And actually, fun fact, the day he passed away, I went to the farm and then I came back that afternoon. I was running errands in Knoxville and a friend who never calls me. This might be the one time ever this friend called me, Hey,

    Yeah.

    Nicolas Lirio (57:16.51)

    This was the afternoon. So this was around the time that dad passed. I literally think we've been friends for a decade I literally think not a single other time as he just called me out of the blue And he said hey just want you to know like I'm praying for you praying for your family right now Just feeling from the Lord. I was supposed to pray for you. Hmm, and I was like man. No, thank you so much These are things going on. I don't even think I listed dad's health

    What's your name again?

    Nicolas Lirio (57:42.398)

    And incredible guy and and that was the whole phone call. It was like three minute phone call checked in. How are you? How are your kids? And he asked me, what are you guys up to? You know, oh, I'm just running errands. You know, this, this or that. And. Turns out, you know, there was a lot more going on than I knew at the time, and. So that. You know, I don't know what you want to call, but if it's not divine intervention.

    I don't, you know, I don't know if there's a God. and so that was happening right around that time. And, I felt it even the last couple of months of his life. I physically felt it on my shoulders, felt it slowly kind of drop on me, the responsibility. And you know, the Bible says, Jesus says, take my yolk.

    It is easy and light. And it was interesting because I felt how heavy, I mean, physically, I felt how heavy the responsibility was, but it didn't feel overwhelming. You know, three years ago would have crushed me. We would have closed down for sure. But at this stage in life, I think I'd been learning to serve. Dad had taught me a ton. You and I had been on an adventure to learn how to market things and do podcasts and.

    connect with just a mate, incredible people in our industry. And, so that whole journey put together, I think it, there's a grace from the Lord. There's an empowerment from him to carry me in a way that I wouldn't be able to do my own. When the Israelites were left Egypt, they were traveling through the desert says that their clothes never wore out. That was a miracle. Right. And I think that my shoulders and not alone, you and Riley right by me, my mom's been really helpful and her part that she's played, but

    My shoulders not collapsing. I do think is kind of a miracle the fact I haven't had like a mental breakdown on some of the stressful things and and I think it's important that people know that I think Sometimes people call me and they're like, yeah, you know, I'm hand picking seed I just want to sell it to like the big guy or whatever We're not the we're not this Big company that has like tons of cash is setting out I mean Kent won't tell you this and this is me probably getting a little too personal can't take took too big of a pay cut

    Nicolas Lirio (01:00:05.634)

    that for the work that he did for us, he should not have taken that pay cut for how much responsibility he took on and stuff. and so that's one area of sacrifice and one area where it shows like, we're not just like billowing out with, with, with cash. And, and there were,

    You don't get rich in the conservation space.

    You don't get rich in the conservation space and and I think I think it can pay fair. I conservation can pay fair. But Kent and Riley and I were here because we believe in it. We're here because I believe in my dad's legacy. I think I really, really want this farm to stay in the family. And there there are financial issues that we've been fighting through. Now we've been fighting through them.

    in the upward trajectory. There's this story I interviewed the CEO of Knoxville's hospital. Really, really cool guy, Kevin Kincaid. And he was kind of too big of a deal to be the CEO of Knoxville's hospital, but he was in his 50s and he knew, I'm probably going to take one more position before I retire. And he wanted to move back to Knoxville and the position was opening. So it worked out well for him. And he came back and he went to the board and Knoxville hospital at the time had

    six days of cash flow left. So they had to get money. And he said they were on a trajectory within a year or two. They would have been at one days with the cash flow. So literally taking in checks to pay their people that same day. Yeah. Right. Not good. And he went to the board and he said there are two ways to fix this. We can shrink or we can grow. And the board opted to grow. And he has led it in a phenomenal way where it is totally working out. And Kent and I and dad

    Nicolas Lirio (01:01:54.84)

    kind of decided we wanted to grow out of our financial issues instead of shrink out of it. I mean, we could have cut out all the acres we were renting, gone down from 40 something, 50 species some years down.

    We were around, we were around like 52 that we had in the field.

    Yeah, it was a lot. We could have cut all that down to 12 species on a couple hundred acres and just been dad and Kent and it would have been totally fine. Yeah. But we believed in conservation. We believed what dad had built until then. And we weren't ready to give it up. And and so I think, you know, there's kind of this man that's that's the big old company. And there are times when the bills come due to the bank.

    where Kent and I get on our knees and we pray and it is, it has always been okay. Our bank really believes in us. Our trajectory is up, but it's painful. and that's the other thing Kevin said to the board. If you decide to grow instead of shrink, it will be more painful. Shrinking is easier. It is the easier way out. And so that's what we've done with this podcast. So when I tell you that dad has spent, he, before he passed, I bet he spent what, $75,000 or more?

    You know that was not because

    Kent Boucher (01:03:14.54)

    around travel trade shows. Yep.

    That was not because he had it laying around and that was another thing that would freak me out. I would go to dad, you know, the first couple of years, Hey, what do you think about this marketing thing? And he would literally just put his hand on it. Well, I trust you, you know, spending $13,000 on a marketing idea and like, don't know if it'll pan out. And, the truth is some of them panned out incredibly well and some of them didn't sometimes cutting out species, really worked out for us. Sometimes the next year that species was worth three times as much. And it's like,

    well it would have been nice to have that species this year. know. Or partridge pee.

    headed bush clover.

    Son of a gun, Nick, I just disc'd it under.

    Nicolas Lirio (01:03:57.944)

    verbatim we were sitting and I was like yeah partridge P basically doesn't exist it's going for like four times the price son of a gun yeah you know it so I think and we couldn't have our journey we're currently on in the middle of we're in the middle of it we are still an experiment that we couldn't have done it without people running beside us I mean Travis Frank giving us just

    Yeah.

    Nicolas Lirio (01:04:26.164)

    huge shout, shout outs on his podcast, Doug Durin taking us under his wing and, and, just the, the kindness he has shown. So, yeah, skip slide. Joyven Weingarten coming on the team and just booming the podcast. And I mean, yeah, Steve Hansen. Yeah, there's Judd. yeah. Yeah. I don't, the guys at Iowa cover crop, you know, just people who've like given us a chance and,

    Skip. Skip.

    Kent Boucher (01:04:44.142)

    God damn.

    Nicolas Lirio (01:04:53.038)

    Big shout out to Pheasants Forever, Bob St. Pierre specifically. The podcast got the groundwork it could because before we were a podcast, we asked Bob for a podcast and we asked if the CEO, Howard Vincent at the time, would do a podcast. that, people would look at our repertoire of podcasts and they see those two guys, oh, this is a legitimate podcast, we can make this happen. And huge, huge shout out to them, mean. But I won't lie to you guys. I feel the stress on my chest and on my shoulders.

    It is the thing I talked to my counselor the most about, on, what is this going to look like in two years? Are we, are we going to last? Are we going to be able to make it happen? and, on years, you know, the cycle in the past has been good CRP years. My dad would literally like pay off all the bank notes and then he would go years with like no income because we were so

    connected with CRP and that was one of my big goals when I got here. I I was looking, was like, okay, so when CRP is good, we're great and if it's not, we're terrible. We need to get off of CRP. We need to find other places to put our seed and I think that's better for conservation because someone who puts in a thousand square feet in their yard are gonna make sure that the columbine that we put in that plot shows up. They're gonna make sure the blazing stars show up which are incredible late season pollinators.

    You know, so they're going to take better care of the individual seeds that get put out there. I'd rather see it in people's yards because they are going to care. Now, lots of people put in CRP really, really care. But even even if you really care, if you're putting in 30 acres, you have the bandwidth to go through and make sure individual species are showing up. And then there's a lot of people put in CRP for a check and they don't really care. And we have mixes for those people because they want to see better. Yep. And they want it cheaper. So we've got a cheaper mix and I don't.

    You

    Kent Boucher (01:06:43.438)

    Better than nothing. Yes.

    Nicolas Lirio (01:06:48.846)

    When Judd hand collected Rough Blazing Star, I don't want Rough Blazing Star to be in that mix because if it doesn't show up, because it's not taken care of, there was way too much hard work put into it. You know, yeah, we would get a paycheck, but that's not we're not here to get rich. We're here. Make sure Prairie gets on the landscape. So there, though, the CRP thing was a very stressful thing for your CRP is down this year and 2025. mean, I think this is totally not kosher for business. We broke even 2025. So like

    My mom is the beneficiary of any profit at Hoxie native seeds. I told her, well, you don't have to pay any money into the business, but you're not getting any money this year. so, but that I told my dad, that was one of our goals. want to break even on bad CRP years. That way when CRP years are good, we don't owe all these bank notes that we're having to pay off from years in the past. And that's kind of how it's been. That's why we're very closely tied to how well does the farm, where's the farm bill add and things like that. And

    Another thing I feel a lot of stress for there are families dependent on us succeeding and Kent's a resourceful guy. He'll figure it out if we went under but it would be very painful for him. I don't want him to go through that. I don't want Riley and his wife to go through that. I don't want my mom and little sister to go to that. I don't want to go through that. I don't want to have to go find another job and hope that you know I'm not making fourteen dollars an hour McDonald's because there's very little economy going on and even

    And even in getting, you know, another job, not that there aren't other great jobs out there, of course, but it just like, there's a lot of things about working here that don't show up on the pay stub, you know what I mean? And it would be sad to see those go.

    I would the worst thing about going to work at Casey's to me would be the difference of going to bed tonight knowing how big of a difference did I make? Yeah, I do think there is there is something to say about showing up at the gas station and being a happy face and being a good part of your community. But the difference I want to make in the world is different than that. And so you're right. There are quality of life things as well that just show up not on the pace of and relationships is probably primary on it. So.

    Nicolas Lirio (01:09:03.052)

    The and I don't I'm not I don't want people to think I've got this grudge that everyone thinks we're big company and we're over here struggling and I'm bitter at them for that. I don't think that at all. I feel very privileged to be at Hoxton Native Seeds. just it is very stressful and it's part of the story and it's part of the world that we live in that we don't get to get away from.

    Well, I think it's part of farming the way we farm. One of the reasons that Big Ag has become what it is, is to eliminate stress. Not that it's a stress-free job by anyone. mean, I think farming is still the number one, has the number one occupational related suicide rate or something like that. So it's not like, but if you look through time,

    Livestock causes a lot of stress. Well, what if you got rid of your livestock and just went strictly to a you know, a row crop operation or maybe having maybe having cows and hogs is really stressful What if you just went down to cows or what if you just went down to hogs? And and a lot of it has been alleviating Those things and a market has become stabilized through the get bigger get out global trade way in which farm markets

    work now and those

    That was the big pro that we got was stabilized prices, but right prices are a little jack

    Kent Boucher (01:10:29.07)

    And so for us we don't have that Benefit in most ways. mean CRP kind of can function in that way a little bit Yeah, but a lot of it is going and finding our own markets and that's stressful But the rewards of it are bigger when it does pan out, you

    And I love those markets like the customers that are in those markets. Man, they're so great.

    It is, it's super rewarding to build those relationships and a lot of times Nick and I when we're doing trade shows and we're exhausted and we've been away from home for days and we're out cruising all over who knows where getting podcasts. We'll like to each other, man, it's a grind but the grind is fun.

    Yeah, yeah, we do. And we literally say like, man, one day when all the bank notes are paid off and and we're not grinding because we're having we're having to make CEO decisions like that's going to be terrible. We'll miss this. And I want to be clear with our intentions at Hoxie. I've I've said this behind closed doors, can attest to this. My goal at Hoxie is to have a team of eight to 12 people and have a regionally prominent

    I'll miss this.

    Nicolas Lirio (01:11:37.806)

    Prairie farm. I'm not here to take over the whole Prairie industry. That would be terrible. There are incredible Prairie companies out there. I don't want to buy them. I don't want them to go out of business. Ken can attest to this too. We pray for them. We pray that they have good sales. We pray that they would they would be blessed that day. We like that. I I just want to talk by Hamilton Native Outpost down in southern Missouri. Incredible company. If you're in northern Arkansas, southern Missouri, call them. They're really good at what they do. And and and so

    I think because I'm so business minded and you know, we joke calling me Mr. Krabs. Yeah, there's kind of this like, like mentality that I want to make sure people understand. Like I'm not here to get big and consolidate ag.

    Eugene Cram

    Kent Boucher (01:12:27.406)

    And honestly, that's one of my criticisms for the small farm movement or regenerative ag movement or whatever is sometimes you can get so caught up in building your own market that you start to reverse engineer the big ag market, you know what I mean? start, you start.

    You could do way more regenerative acres. Think of how many acres you could do.

    If you set up trucking in this way, now you can be shipping your products all over the state. And I think it's important to not get caught up in that and to embrace those struggles. And the struggles are what made, just like we were talking about at beginning of this podcast, nobody wants to get gored by the buffalo again, but you sure are glad you got gored by the buffalo when you did. You live to tell about it.

    shapes who you are and you know you're better for it on the other end. when we look back at those rugged black and white pictures of farmers from the 1940s and we see not an ounce of fat on their body, we see well-developed muscles and you find out the guy's like 47. You know what mean?

    You look at that with like you you give that person honor in your mind and and The thing that made that picture beautiful was like there is a person who stood in the midst of the struggle and leaned into it and held fast and and I think that being on a farm is you know, one of the

    Kent Boucher (01:14:16.938)

    I just recently the Edmund Fitzgerald has been a talking point recently because of a new book out by I think his name is Francis Bacon.

    Francis Bacon is a famous person from the Renaissance, think. I don't want to be signalling you.

    I think I think or John John see bacon. That's it. right. Yeah, Francis bacon. I think was like a scientist He so that's been you know talked about a lot lately and I learned in an interview that I listened to with that author on on Meteor podcast a couple months ago like the last known Communication from the Edmund Fitzgerald was the captain saying we are holding our own

    And I just think those are such powerful words to, even in the face of shipwreck, be willing to hold your own. And I think you're doing that well here at Hoxie. And I have lot of hope that 50 years from now, we'll be the old duffers that come back around and annoy everybody and disrupt their work for 20 minutes while we walk.

    Everyone just wants us to leave.

    Kent Boucher (01:15:38.134)

    Right there. You know, here's here comes the old guys that are going to tell us about how it was back when you had to go find parts back over there where you got that field down. You know, and and I hope I hope and I do think.

    They were still using glyphosate. I would love for it.

    Never mind. I won't say what I of another quote from Carol on on pesticides but Place you don't want to rub it

    That's not that advice isn't on the tag

    That is not on label though. Yeah. They're gonna make me say it. But I believe we're gonna get there. think we are and for all the challenges that we have on a daily basis of making this place work. We have a lot of victories along the way and a lot of blessings to count and a great support network of friends and

    Nicolas Lirio (01:16:21.87)

    I'm giving advice.

    Kent Boucher (01:16:45.842)

    and allies that have really helped us along the way. And both you and I live by faith. And there's no more comfort than when you consider that. Because then all the times you look back, go, if this person would have just done this, or if I would have just remembered to do this, or if I, you know, it doesn't matter because it wasn't supposed to be that way.

    You do your best every day. You try to love your neighbors yourself and you know, you love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength and kind of allow the chips to fall as they may after that.

    been talking a lot about we can control inputs and we can't control outputs in our life. So you can control how often you go to the gym. You cannot control how much you end up being able to lift, you know, after that, the only control you have is the inputs you can you can it's like the parable of sowing seeds. You you you sow seeds and you water them and you pray and

    And do it the best way that you can. Do the research.

    It's important that you do your best and you steward well, but there's something that I want to jump back on. I think before I know we're winding down, but Doug said years ago, he said, it's not about profit maximization. It's about, was it viability financial viability? And I thought about that for a long time and yeah, why do we go for profit maximization? There is something to be said about the correlation of the integrity and

    Nicolas Lirio (01:18:31.566)

    and strength of a man or woman and their internal world and how little they are satisfied with. Now, mean truly satisfied. So what I mean is, let's say you got an old grandpa who makes $20,000 a year and he says, oh, this is happy, this is the life I have. You actually know they're satisfied if someone says, hey, would you like $10 million? I will give you $10 million right now. If they say no, they are satisfied with where they're at. Now,

    That doesn't mean that they're chasing after anything. And I think there's a testament to not always chasing after everything. But there is a correlation between the strength of the internal strength of a man and the satisfaction they experience in their soul. I struggle with that quite a bit, but you cannot have on the farm, humans will not be able to have financial viability that doesn't leak into profit maximization.

    if they are not satisfied in their soul, in the inside of them. So there, I mean, there's always a temptation to have more. Why not? mean, you know, if the government's going to hand out money, why wouldn't I take the money more, more with I, what are you talking about? That dresser is just sitting on the side of the road. I might as well have it. I'll pick it up. You know, I don't have a use for it. So yeah. dude, don't let me start. So there, there is something to be said and I want that to be the case for us. And so with farming,

    It was on sale.

    Nicolas Lirio (01:19:58.208)

    If your goal is to get bigger, you're going to fall into big ag. Whether you're in a niche industry, you're going to fall into the consumer. But even if you're in regenerative ag, you might not have the practice, the poor practices on the landscape, but the mentality will be there and it will permeate. But if you love farming for the cut for the farming that you're doing and you're satisfied with your life, then I think, then I think you have a real recipe for.

    conservation and regenerative agricultural practices on a landscape as a whole. But until we figure out how to have that satisfaction inside of us, forget about the financial viability piece. We'll race to the bottom to get... And profit maximization truly is, that sounds like we're getting more, it's a race to the bottom in many ways. And it's something I struggle with. I don't want to say...

    So.

    perspective and great advice, know the you know, contentment is just so key it's just so key to have a have a life of happiness and and contentment spreads to to people that are paying attention. Yeah, and To quality people they pick up on that and and they they I think it becomes infectious, you know, which is so important. Okay, I got two things

    Yeah. ask you. When you look back at your career at Hoxie someday. What will be your favorite memories? What will you be most proud of and what will you wish you had done differently?

    Nicolas Lirio (01:21:37.422)

    Okay, hands down, the best memories are when you're laughing so hard you can't breathe. I mean, there's other really great ones, big wins when we get big bands and stuff like that, or when we successfully plant a field in the show. Just all that experimenting that goes well, but it doesn't compare to the joy you feel in your heart and your connectedness with your brethren than when you laugh so hard that you end up peeing your pants. You know, that's like.

    that happens about well once every other day here

    Yeah, we laugh a lot. It is really important. I think the thing I'm most proud of is I am proud to introduce every person on our team to anybody. I would be proud to introduce you or Riley or Judd or Joy when she was hanging out with us. Any of any of you guys, I would be proud to introduce you to anyone from the lowest of the low. I would trust you guys to handle yourself well and graciously with someone struggling with drugs and is homeless to

    a proud CEO of a giant company to a stay at home mom. I am proud of our team as individual peoples and how we're learning to work together. And not 100 % credit, but I feel a lot of credit for helping put that team together. And I think that's what I'm most proud of so far.

    Yeah, and what what will you? What do you anticipate or maybe there is something already that you wish you had done differently or what what do you think you know? 50 years from now hoxies, know eight to twelve people. It's a well-oiled machine You and I are out of the picture because we're old geezers

    Nicolas Lirio (01:23:10.124)

    I think I'm, I'm, I don't know. I mean, it's part of my DNA. Some I've been on a focus kick. Like we look at these heroes that have overnight success and what you don't see is that they worked very hard for 26 years straight on the same thing. I think I'll probably regret how much I veered my concentration onto other things. But it's just in me.

    You know what I mean? I'm just thinking about new ideas and new stuff all the time and I don't have the resources to make them happen. So sometimes I try to make them happen and they just cost a bunch of resources and don't need to. I think I'll probably end up regretting some of those side quests. Coffee shop, don't regret. I believe that we were called by the Lord, my wife and I to do real estate in Knoxville. So each and every house and tenant we've ever messed with, I've been very grateful and that has gone really

    Kent Boucher (01:24:10.986)

    Black Blackstone's the housing one they used to be together. I looked this up recently Yeah, we

    Okay, yeah, we should talk about that on a copy. It is very interesting. We're having it in Knoxville. There's a big company. I think they're based out of Des Moines, but they're buying all of our houses in our, so on a smaller scale, they're doing what Blackstone does.

    And we recently heard from a podcast guest that's going on in Des Moines too. Yeah. So yeah. Well, I think those, are all great reflections. You know what the last question is. You finally get to answer it. You can snap your fingers and change one thing about the world. What would it be?

    That's fair.

    Nicolas Lirio (01:24:49.955)

    You would think I would have thought about this. Yeah, you would think I would have thought

    I would

    But honestly, I don't know what I'd say either.

    All right, so I'm going to steal the answer of somebody else because I have thought a lot about that and it seems to be the solution to a lot of things. Barring my religious beliefs because I don't think forceful faith is faith and so that defeats our point. Barring that.

    Nicolas Lirio (01:25:26.56)

    If I could snap my fingers, I would grow the fruit of thankfulness in the hearts of everybody. Solves our wars, solves our conservation issues, solves our consumption issues, solves half of marriage issues. Thankfulness. You start the cure to wanting more. Is thankfulness out loud?

    with your words, even if you don't feel it. I'll do that sometimes where I'm like really frustrated with something. Like, what was I? my wife and I way overspent in December, Way overspent because our income was shorter because we were closed at the coffee shop. I wasn't working as much, that kind of stuff. So we had budget, okay, we're gonna be able to spend this much, which is less than we normally can spend. We way overspent it. And I was so frustrated with myself, with my wife. And then I just, so I forced myself to go, Lord, thank you.

    that I have food in the fridge. Like I can go home and I have food. Most humans that have existed, you know, up until about 50 years ago, that wasn't the case.

    You open up your fridge and then you just close it and go pick up your spear. Yeah.

    Exactly. You know, thank you that I have friends that would pick up the phone if I needed them. Thank you that I have friends that will call me when they need me. Thank you that I have a wife that loves me, that actually love that does things for me, just for me, not because she also gets a benefit. You know, thank you that I have siblings that I enjoy being around.

    Nicolas Lirio (01:26:57.794)

    Thank you that I have air conditioning. Thank you that my truck runs smoothly. Thank you that I have a place to bring my truck and I have a good relationship with the mechanic that, you know, just the little things like that, that sounds stupid. Well, of course we have that. That is not the case. Thankful for tables, thankful for boxes that you can put things. It sounds so stupid, but it is so important. If you run out of thankfulness for the simple things in life, you're going to run after the profit maximization and you're screwed.

    I think thankfulness would solve most of the issues we have, inter-human, like between each other, depression and pain and anxiety we have in our own hearts.

    Yeah, I think that's a great answer. Well, there you have it. The the unpolished truth from the the host of the Prairie Farm podcast. I just want to say I'm thankful for you. I'm thankful for your friendship. was, you know, when I came on here, it was not on my radar that we would become such good friends. I I figured we'd be, you know, happy to work together. And and it's unique. We don't really hang out a lot outside of work. I mean, we do.

    We're around all the time

    Yeah, mean we but Travis once asked me you know backs against the wall is he kind of the guy you would call if I and I was thinking of that Like a year and a half ago. There was some guy who went on vacation to this Caribbean island and and he had accidentally left a bullet in his backpack from when he had been at the shooting range or something recently and

    Kent Boucher (01:28:33.134)

    And this country had used it as leverage to like imprison him for, you know, I think they were talking up to like 12 years or something like that. And it was this huge ordeal. And I remember when I was listening to that podcast, I was like, Nicholas is the person I would call. I just know that that he would go to whatever length to make it happen that I was getting out of there. And and you would you would know you would work till you found the right person you needed to call to solve the problem.

    And I wasn't anticipating that kind of a friendship coming. I don't even think friendship's necessarily the right word, just like brother. I wasn't expecting that. I wasn't against it, of course, but I had a lot of good friends already and I just wanted a good place to work. so I'm incredibly thankful for your role here at Hoxie in every sense as

    I think you're doing a great job leading us as our CEO. think you did a great job of balancing a small family business that in 99 % of cases would have died when Carol died. You've done a good job of navigating, taking that to the next level, which is where we're in now. We're in Gen 2 of Hoxie Native Seeds. And not a lot of small businesses can say that.

    unless they got gobbled up by their bigger competitor. And I think you deserve a mountain of credit for making that happen and for being willing to listen to the still small voice of the Lord and guiding you in your decision making. then actually, most people aren't willing to put, they're willing to talk the talk, they're willing to drop a few 20s in the plate, they're willing to show up on Christmas and Easter.

    but you live it, I mean, your faith in action. You live with six days in every week because every Sunday is devoted to the Lord. And most people function on seven days in their week. And I know that you give a significant portion of your financial assets back to the Lord. And of course, we believe in faith that that comes with blessing as well.

    Kent Boucher (01:30:55.438)

    A lot of life is done by intentionally living it with one hand tied behind your back because you're not selfishly spending it all on yourself. you would never say that and you never should because that would be an arrogant thing to say. But as your friend and brother, I would like people to just understand that you're an incredibly giving person. You're somebody who looks

    to justify somebody else. I think that's such an important trait to have where you're the one convincing everyone else that, hey, no, this person's a cool hang. And I think that that is one of the main reasons why we've been successful here at Hoxie and why I think we're gonna continue to be successful decades even beyond you being here.

    I just wanted to mention that, don't respond to it because that's not cool. But thank you to our listeners for tuning in. Hope this part, this inside look doesn't scare you away. It's not like the first date talking about wedding ring shopping or anything like that. I think I have to go now. Hopefully we didn't give you any of those vibes.

    Yeah

    Kent Boucher (01:32:21.334)

    Obviously we talked a lot about faith. That's part of who we are. We like it or hate it. That's who we are. So we just thank you though for tuning in. Thank you for your support. Many of you have been customers here buying seed that we sell, advocating for us, sharing the podcast with others that you think would enjoy it. We've heard so many, I mean just countless stories of you doing that.

    can't get away from it.

    Kent Boucher (01:32:47.416)

    You've been a huge part of our success story here as well. We literally couldn't have a business without customers. And so we thank you, all of you, for participating in whatever capacity you have here at Hoxie Native Seeds. And it shows that you've developed that mindset and will continue to work hard through great interviews and trying to leave no stone unturned as we get to the bottom of what it...

    from a human side, why is the world the way it is and how can we make it better? And it all starts with a mindset, that mindset that focuses on all the things Nicholas talked about in this conversation because conservation happens one mind at a time.

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